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  • Smoltz uncertain

    http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sp...ge_tab_newstab


    I guess we all kinda knew this was coming but didn't want to think about it.
    trusted traders: Rockhound,xholdourownx,Drillbit,Tebow15

  • #2
    It really does look like this is the end for Smoltz. The time comes for everybody although it is always sad when a legend is forced out rather than leaving on his own terms. My guess is that Glavine will call it quits after this year as well. Maddux is still pitching well enough to come back next year if he wants. I wonder how all three of them retiring together would impact Smoltz's chance for a first ballot election to the Hall of Fame. You have the nostalgia factor, but you also have voters weighing him against two far superior pitchers by traditional Hall of Fame standards.
    "I never saw anyone like Ty Cobb. No one even close to him. He was the greatest all time ballplayer. That guy was superhuman, amazing."
    -Casey Stengel

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    • #3
      ya glavine left early tonight great!!! strained left elbow...and I don't know about the whole process how you get elected into the HOF but Smoltz is definitely a Hall of Famer.
      trusted traders: Rockhound,xholdourownx,Drillbit,Tebow15

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Rpollard86 View Post
        ya glavine left early tonight great!!! strained left elbow...and I don't know about the whole process how you get elected into the HOF but Smoltz is definitely a Hall of Famer.
        The process is that a player must wait five years after retiring to get on the ballot. The eligible writers then vote. If you get 75%, then you are elected. If you get less than 5 % you are off the ballot. As long as you get 5% you remain on the ballot for 15 years. After that it goes to the veterans committee. I won't get into the process then since that is almost 20 years away.

        I agree that Smoltz should be a Hall of Famer. However, as much as I like him it is not clear. What makes him better than Kevin Brown? Brown has very little chance. I do think Smoltz makes it, but I thought Blyleven would be in by now. Smoltz is clearly below Blyleven.
        "I never saw anyone like Ty Cobb. No one even close to him. He was the greatest all time ballplayer. That guy was superhuman, amazing."
        -Casey Stengel

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        • #5
          isn't he the only person with more than 200 wins and 150 saves? I would think being the only person in that category would get you in. He also has one of the highest post-season winning percentages when he pitches (15 wins i think).

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          • #6
            Originally posted by chip&smoltz95 View Post
            isn't he the only person with more than 200 wins and 150 saves? I would think being the only person in that category would get you in. He also has one of the highest post-season winning percentages when he pitches (15 wins i think).
            I think Smoltz is only person with 200 wins and 150 saves. Eck missed it by three wins. I don't know if that will have any impact on his hall chances. The voters are always hesistant with relievers. I don't blame them. If we had a Hall of Fame with no career relievers, it wouldn't bother me a bit. I think pitchers should be evaluated for the Hall more on innings and era. Who knows how the voters will handle his postseason heroics. Jack Morris didn't make it. However, Smoltz is clearly better than Morris.

            Here is how I see the Hall of Fame voting for our generation:

            You have 5 guys who are easy choices.
            Maddux
            Clemens (steroids complicate matter)
            R. Johnson
            P. Martinez
            Glavine

            Then you have four borderline guys.
            Smoltz
            Schilling
            Mussina
            Brown

            I really want Smoltz to make it, but I can't give a good argument for him over any of those guys other than he is Brave. If I was told I could only pick one as deserving, it would be Brown. Honestly, I might put all four of them in. If you do that and toss in Rivera that makes 10 pitchers starting in the late 80's early 90's in the HOF. That seems like an awful lot from one generation.
            "I never saw anyone like Ty Cobb. No one even close to him. He was the greatest all time ballplayer. That guy was superhuman, amazing."
            -Casey Stengel

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            • #7
              I've said that the uniqueness of Smoltz's career is what is going to get him into the Hall of Fame. He's the only person in the history of Major League Baseball to go from starter to closer back to starter again and be at the top of his game every time. The guy still has one of the most glittering post-season records in the game's history. I don't think there's any way that he can be left out.
              46 wins to match last year's total

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              • #8
                agreed, and cbenson he was a starter before a reliever. He went to the pen to help the team as I recall. I know the injuries probably would have kept him short of 300 wins, but he would probably be really close with those three extra years as a starter.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by chip&smoltz95 View Post
                  agreed, and cbenson he was a starter before a reliever. He went to the pen to help the team as I recall. I know the injuries probably would have kept him short of 300 wins, but he would probably be really close with those three extra years as a starter.
                  What, Smoltz began his career as a starter. I'm aware of that buddy. I guess I should go ahead and say that I am doing a bit of playing Devil's Advocate here. I believe that Smotlz should be a Hall of Famer. However, the arguments being made here are those usually made by people only for members of their favorite team.

                  My question for the board is this?
                  Should Smoltz, Mussina, Schilling, and Brown all go into the Hall?
                  If not, Why Smoltz over those three.

                  Here are the career innings and ERA+ of those gentlemen.
                  Smoltz- 3395 127
                  Schilling- 3261 127
                  Mussina- 3437 122 (259 wins)
                  Brown- 3256 127

                  Look at him against Brown on peak.

                  Smoltz- best five years ERA+ and innings.
                  149- 253
                  143- 256
                  138- 229
                  137- 205
                  129- 246

                  Brown
                  216- 233
                  169- 230
                  169-211
                  164- 252
                  150- 237

                  As you can see, Brown's best five seasons according to ERA+ are better than Smoltz's single season best as a starter. The reason I choose Brown, is that he has little chance of making the Hall. Without looking, I assume Smoltz's peak is better than Mussina's and below Schilling's.

                  I've been reflecting on Smoltz's career the past few days. I think of him as a deserving first ballot Hall of Famer. To make sure it is not a homer vote, I've got to argue the other side.
                  "I never saw anyone like Ty Cobb. No one even close to him. He was the greatest all time ballplayer. That guy was superhuman, amazing."
                  -Casey Stengel

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                  • #10
                    I knew he wasn't ready when he came back. especially his first few pitches. They had 0 movement on them, which is very unlike him no matter how he has to adjust. Whatever happens with him though, he's still one of the greats.
                    PFC Henry
                    United States Marine Corps

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Gallic Gun View Post
                      I knew he wasn't ready when he came back. especially his first few pitches. They had 0 movement on them, which is very unlike him no matter how he has to adjust. Whatever happens with him though, he's still one of the greats.
                      Yea, he couldn't throw his split-finger with that odd arm angle. It was sad to watch. What a warrior though!
                      "I never saw anyone like Ty Cobb. No one even close to him. He was the greatest all time ballplayer. That guy was superhuman, amazing."
                      -Casey Stengel

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Yeah, I've grown up on Braves baseball and watching him. He was always my favorite. Maddux was great, but who likes seeing fly outs and ground outs? Glavine was always interesting to see because he'd always get those calls right on the edge of the plate, but Smoltz always went right after the hitter. It's especially disappointing because I haven't seen anything in their farm system to resemble anything like that trio from the 90s. I wish Mazzonne would come back and work with the young pitchers who have potential.
                        PFC Henry
                        United States Marine Corps

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Gallic Gun View Post
                          Yeah, I've grown up on Braves baseball and watching him. He was always my favorite. Maddux was great, but who likes seeing fly outs and ground outs? Glavine was always interesting to see because he'd always get those calls right on the edge of the plate, but Smoltz always went right after the hitter. It's especially disappointing because I haven't seen anything in their farm system to resemble anything like that trio from the 90s. I wish Mazzonne would come back and work with the young pitchers who have potential.
                          I miss the good old days of Maddux, Smoltz, and Glavine as well. The three of them captured seven cy young awards in eight years if memory serves. Some on here might want to debate your point about Mazzone being the best guy to work with young pitchers. I'll just welcome you to the website now. I hope that you will stick around and battle it out with us from time to time.
                          "I never saw anyone like Ty Cobb. No one even close to him. He was the greatest all time ballplayer. That guy was superhuman, amazing."
                          -Casey Stengel

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Well, he's whats worked for them...
                            Thanks for the welcome, lol. sirblaughs told me about the site (He's a big Mets fan). He mentioned that this site was pretty friendly and flaming was kept to a minimal so I decided to check it out.
                            Going to the Braves/Mariners game on the 21st. w00t!
                            PFC Henry
                            United States Marine Corps

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Gallic Gun View Post
                              Well, he's whats worked for them...
                              Thanks for the welcome, lol. sirblaughs told me about the site (He's a big Mets fan). He mentioned that this site was pretty friendly and flaming was kept to a minimal so I decided to check it out.
                              Going to the Braves/Mariners game on the 21st. w00t!
                              This is a nice friendly place with a wealth of baseball knowledge. If you are interested in baseball history, I recommend trying out the History of the Game section. Mr. Burgess is a brilliant researcher who has put in almost superhuman effort in that section. You should enjoy your stay.
                              "I never saw anyone like Ty Cobb. No one even close to him. He was the greatest all time ballplayer. That guy was superhuman, amazing."
                              -Casey Stengel

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