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Francoeur gets traded to the Mets for Ryan Church

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  • Rob R
    replied
    Originally posted by majorleads View Post
    Again with this OBP stat. This is the National League and in the NL your middle of the order guys get paid to DRIVE IN RUNS, not walk. A walk does no good when you have crappy hitters following you in the lineup.


    Wait, I just realized you posted their OBP with RISP? Are you serious? That tells us absolutely nothing. The name of the game for his spot in the lineup is driving the ball and driving in runs, not walking or hitting meaningless base to base singles that don't knock in runs.


    EDIT:Should also say you're applying American League tactics to the NL. The AL has good hitters throughout so a walk has more value for a middle of the order guy.
    Again, look at the stats before assuming what Church did. Let's take 2008, a full season for example. In 80 AB's, with RISP, Church drove in 31 RBI, which is excellent, which disproves your perception of Church not driving runs in. I'm not sure how this is any different in the AL or NL - and RBI is an RBI and OBP is OBP regardless of the league. Plus, my comparison is a fair one, since both Church and Francoeur both played in the NL.

    As for overall OBP comparing Church to Francoeur, it's no contest. Church's OBP is much better. Then you mention walks. Are you aware that Francouer drew MORE walks than Church in a full season, 2008, YET his OBP was a considerable .52 points lower? If that doesn't show how much better and productive Church is than Francoeur, I don't know what to tell you. Again, you need to check the numbers before you post.

    Church is a lot better than you think. And Francoeur probably a lot worse. Don't try to make yourself feel better about this trade without looking at the facts.
    Last edited by Rob R; 07-12-2009, 08:24 PM.

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  • majorleads
    replied
    Originally posted by SamtheBravesFan View Post
    This is what you seem to be missing here, majorleads. The point of the trade was not to obtain Church, but to get rid of Francoeur.
    Right, I'm really directing this towards clueless Mets fans and that cute Yankee dog who is posting here. I feel the same way about Church, good riddance.

    Leave a comment:


  • majorleads
    replied
    Originally posted by Rob R View Post
    majorleads, let's not let the numbers get in the way:

    Situational hitting:
    Francouer 2008
    RISP: .276 OBP (Awful)

    Francoeur 2009:
    RISP: .291 OBP (very, very bad)

    Church 2008
    RISP: .394 OBP (excellent)

    Church 2009
    RISP: .325 OBP (fair, BUT he's played half his games at Citi and for a manager who despised him)

    The Braves got the better of the deal....by far.
    Again with this OBP stat. This is the National League and in the NL your middle of the order guys get paid to DRIVE IN RUNS, not walk. A walk does no good when you have crappy hitters following you in the lineup.


    Wait, I just realized you posted their OBP with RISP? Are you serious? That tells us absolutely nothing. The name of the game for his spot in the lineup is driving the ball and driving in runs, not walking or hitting meaningless base to base singles that don't knock in runs.


    EDIT:Should also say you're applying American League tactics to the NL. The AL has good hitters throughout so a walk has more value for a middle of the order guy.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rob R
    replied
    Originally posted by majorleads View Post
    No, it's just I cannot believe all of this love Ryan Church has been getting. Yesterday's ball game is more like what you'll be seeing from him. Leaving LOTS of runners on base.
    See my above post. Your perception just might be wrong. Church is actually pretty good with runners on base, especially when in scoring position.

    Leave a comment:


  • SamtheBravesFan
    replied
    Originally posted by PureBaseballFan View Post
    I don't think anyone said Church was the greatest player ever but a combo of Diaz and Church is far better then the current Francoeur.
    This is what you seem to be missing here, majorleads. The point of the trade was not to obtain Church, but to get rid of Francoeur.

    Leave a comment:


  • PureBaseballFan
    replied
    Originally posted by majorleads View Post
    No, it's just I cannot believe all of this love Ryan Church has been getting. Yesterday's ball game is more like what you'll be seeing from him. Leaving LOTS of runners on base.

    As for Francoeur, I already know he sucks so I'm not expecting anything when he steps to the plate. Church does just enough where you think he will come through in a big spot, but the more you see him the more you realize he never gets that big hit.

    Oh and he looked his usual wobbly self in the OF yesterday. Didn't see today's game but I'm sure he must have tripped over himself at some point in the game.
    I don't think anyone said Church was the greatest player ever but a combo of Diaz and Church is far better then the current Francoeur.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rob R
    replied
    majorleads, let's not let the numbers get in the way:

    Situational hitting:
    Francouer 2008
    RISP: .276 OBP (Awful)

    Francoeur 2009:
    RISP: .291 OBP (very, very bad)

    Church 2008
    RISP: .394 OBP (excellent)

    Church 2009
    RISP: .325 OBP (fair, BUT he's played half his games at Citi and for a manager who despised him)

    The Braves got the better of the deal....by far.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rob R
    replied
    Originally posted by majorleads View Post
    Sweet fancy Moses, Ryan Church actually got an RBI today. And don't pay any attention to Rob R, he's just jealous our crappy new ballpark is much better than his.


    Frenchy looked good at the plate today.
    Hmmm, Citi better than NYS? Not quite, but we're going off topic (sorry Braves fans).

    That very Citi Field, with it's ridiculous contrived dimensions, and miles of foul territory, was to Church's detriment, as it will be to a majority of players who will play there. Think Francoeur can't dive any further? Wait till you see the final results of his playing at Citi.

    Listen, the bottom line is that Francoeur once had the better upside than Church, but history, and a large enough sample size has proven this wrong. While Francoeur possesses more power (which will be negated by Citi), Church has a far better OBP and is a much better situational hitter. And come on, if you think that Minaya and Wilpon can outsmart the far superior Braves front office, I have a bridge to sell you.

    Leave a comment:


  • Extra Innings
    replied
    Originally posted by SamtheBravesFan View Post
    Rubbing it in our faces. Cute.

    This is just the honeymoon too. Give Francoeur a month and see how you like him then.

    The Braves certainly weren't getting anywhere with Francoeur and they can get nowhere without him.
    It looks like the series against the Mets after the break will be the biggest of the year since the trade.

    Leave a comment:


  • majorleads
    replied
    Originally posted by SamtheBravesFan View Post
    Rubbing it in our faces. Cute.

    This is just the honeymoon too. Give Francoeur a month and see how you like him then.

    The Braves certainly weren't getting anywhere with Francoeur and they can get nowhere without him.
    No, it's just I cannot believe all of this love Ryan Church has been getting. Yesterday's ball game is more like what you'll be seeing from him. Leaving LOTS of runners on base.

    As for Francoeur, I already know he sucks so I'm not expecting anything when he steps to the plate. Church does just enough where you think he will come through in a big spot, but the more you see him the more you realize he never gets that big hit.


    Oh and he looked his usual wobbly self in the OF yesterday. Didn't see today's game but I'm sure he must have tripped over himself at some point in the game.

    Leave a comment:


  • SamtheBravesFan
    replied
    Rubbing it in our faces. Cute.

    This is just the honeymoon too. Give Francoeur a month and see how you like him then.

    The Braves certainly weren't getting anywhere with Francoeur and they can get nowhere without him.

    Leave a comment:


  • majorleads
    replied
    Sweet fancy Moses, Ryan Church actually got an RBI today. And don't pay any attention to Rob R, he's just jealous our crappy new ballpark is much better than his.


    Frenchy looked good at the plate today.

    Leave a comment:


  • SamtheBravesFan
    replied
    Originally posted by Francoeurstein View Post
    Wow, I thought the tears would go away by now.
    Boy, you're really affected by this. It's not like he's dead. You can still follow him with the Mets. He's still the same guy. He just won't be a Brave.

    Leave a comment:


  • Francoeurstein
    replied
    Wow, I thought the tears would go away by now.

    Leave a comment:


  • SamtheBravesFan
    replied
    Originally posted by Rob R View Post
    I also think that the Braves were fairly patient with Francoeur, waiting for him to break out, but at this point, they probably just don't see it happening.
    It was a real point of contention how patient they were with Francoeur. We think he should have been dumped after last season.

    Leave a comment:

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