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Is Soriano Overrated?

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  • #16
    You make a good point, as a lead off hitter, he is over rated. He has some negative stats, as well as positive stats. He should still be able to get on base more, He hasnt had all tremendous seasons like last year, i think he had one other where he was a HR or a SB away from 40-40, same with Vladdy. He also isnt an angel in the outfield and in 2002, 2003, 2005 and 2006, he ranked in the top ten for most outs coming in at 4th last year.

    here are some encouraging stats though,as a leadoff hitter, he has a .340 OBP and a .291 BA, which is better than his career numbers,a nd that is through 2227 PA. when leading off an inning, he has a .344 OBP with a .301 BA, also not as bad as his career stats show. And when batting in the first inning, he has a .331 OBP and a .291 BA. So that shows a little bit better than his career numbers.

    Some nicer stats are on the first pitch, when it goes into play, he dominates. He has a .385 BA, .395 OBP, .717 SLG, 35 HRs and 83 XBH, and that is through 494 PA. Not that that really means much, but its nice to think of where he can dominate. Also, this was his first year in the NL, so maybe the league change had something to do with the high OBP. He also has one more thing that some players don't have, he has comfort when leading off. He loves it more than any other spot in the order, its better to have him comfortable leading off with semi-mediocre numbers than having him bat where he should and putting up horrible numbers.
    "I don't like to sound egotistical, but every time I stepped up to the plate with a bat in my hands, I couldn't help but feel sorry for the pitcher."
    -Rogers Hornsby-

    "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
    -Rogers Hornsby-

    Just a note to all the active members of BBF, I consider all of you the smartest baseball people I have ever communicated with and love everyday I am on here. Thank you all!

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Lipsander
      If Soriano wasn't a lead off hitter, would you still consider him as over rated?
      probably not. he'd still be overrated, but he wouldnt have it as a novelty of being a leadoff man.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Cubsfan97
        here are some encouraging stats though,as a leadoff hitter, he has a .340 OBP and a .291 BA, which is better than his career numbers,a nd that is through 2227 PA. when leading off an inning, he has a .344 OBP with a .301 BA, also not as bad as his career stats show. And when batting in the first inning, he has a .331 OBP and a .291 BA. So that shows a little bit better than his career numbers.
        That has a great deal to do with the 21 IBB's he's gotten in the leadoff spot, compared to the 10 IBB's he's got in all other spots combined. 16 of those IBB's came last year alone, which is why his OBP was so high last year.

        Lee and Aramis certainly provide more protection in the lineup than he had last year, and he's simply not going to be intentionally walked to get to those guys. Which means his OBP this year is going to head back south to his career norms.


        Some nicer stats are on the first pitch, when it goes into play, he dominates. He has a .385 BA, .395 OBP, .717 SLG, 35 HRs and 83 XBH, and that is through 494 PA. Not that that really means much, but its nice to think of where he can dominate. Also, this was his first year in the NL, so maybe the league change had something to do with the high OBP. He also has one more thing that some players don't have, he has comfort when leading off. He loves it more than any other spot in the order, its better to have him comfortable leading off with semi-mediocre numbers than having him bat where he should and putting up horrible numbers.
        It's better for Soriano, but is it better for the team? I don't think so.

        If you construct the top 4 spots in the lineup like this : Murton/Lee/Soriano/Aramis, I bet you'd find that combination scores ALOT more runs than Soriano/DeRosa/Lee/Aramis.
        Jerseys hanging in my den : Santo, Jenkins, Williams, Banks, Grace, Sandberg, Dawson, Eckersley, Sutcliffe, Wood, Prior, Zambrano, Lee

        Oddly enough, I never bought a Sosa jersey, even during his best years.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Lipsander
          If Soriano wasn't a lead off hitter, would you still consider him as over rated?
          Absolutely.
          Jerseys hanging in my den : Santo, Jenkins, Williams, Banks, Grace, Sandberg, Dawson, Eckersley, Sutcliffe, Wood, Prior, Zambrano, Lee

          Oddly enough, I never bought a Sosa jersey, even during his best years.

          Comment


          • #20
            Don't you think alot or most baseball players have poor OBP now days? It seems to me, although I have no stats to back this up, that alot of players cannot get on base consistently anymore.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Lipsander
              Don't you think alot or most baseball players have poor OBP now days? It seems to me, although I have no stats to back this up, that alot of players cannot get on base consistently anymore.
              I think I saw somewhere that the league average OBP last year was around .340, but I'm not entirely sure about that figure.


              Not great, but the Cubs only had 2 guys with over 450 AB's and an OBP over .340. That speaks volumes as to why we had so much trouble scoring runs.
              Jerseys hanging in my den : Santo, Jenkins, Williams, Banks, Grace, Sandberg, Dawson, Eckersley, Sutcliffe, Wood, Prior, Zambrano, Lee

              Oddly enough, I never bought a Sosa jersey, even during his best years.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Slightly Sarcastic


                Not great, but the Cubs only had 2 guys with over 450 AB's and an OBP over .340. That speaks volumes as to why we had so much trouble scoring runs.

                That's true.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Soriano is overrated...but that doesn't make him a player without value.

                  Soriano is going to produce runs. His SLG should be pretty high (and even with a low OBP, his OPS should be very respectable). Is he one of the top 10 players in baseball? Of course not. But is he going to be valuable to the Cubs? Of course.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    I think Soriano is fastly becoming underrated with all this talk of him being overrated. Yes, he has bee overrated in the past, and yes he might be overrated still today, but now we have people talking about Soriano as if he's the worst player in the league and he's not. He has a low OBP, but lots of power and speed. Maybe if the Cubs' hitting coach can work with him on patience in the box, he could be an MVP caliber player. The only hole I see his play (when he's an outfielder that is) is that OBP. A lot of players have had low OBPs and have been praised by the media and the fans, even the Cubs' precious Andre Dawson.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by tearforamariner
                      I think Soriano is fastly becoming underrated with all this talk of him being overrated. Yes, he has bee overrated in the past, and yes he might be overrated still today, but now we have people talking about Soriano as if he's the worst player in the league and he's not. He has a low OBP, but lots of power and speed. Maybe if the Cubs' hitting coach can work with him on patience in the box, he could be an MVP caliber player. The only hole I see his play (when he's an outfielder that is) is that OBP. A lot of players have had low OBPs and have been praised by the media and the fans, even the Cubs' precious Andre Dawson.
                      Amen, brother.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Overpaid > Overrated. He is a great asset to the team. I mean, as far as outfield goes, he brings speed, defensive plays, and he can hit 40HR steal 40 bases and can possibly be an RBI machine out in Chicago. I think thats really what the Cubs need too.
                        Texas Ranger Baseball 2008.. :applaud:

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Texas Rangers
                          Overpaid > Overrated. He is a great asset to the team. I mean, as far as outfield goes, he brings speed, defensive plays, and he can hit 40HR steal 40 bases and can possibly be an RBI machine out in Chicago. I think thats really what the Cubs need too.

                          I agree with you totally. He is definately overpaid, but he's a big cog in our machine in Chicago.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            [QUOTE=Slightly Sarcastic]
                            It's better for Soriano, but is it better for the team? I don't think so.
                            QUOTE]

                            Whats better for the Cubs, having Soriano bat leadoff with Soriano numbers, or having Soriano batfirst with Soriano numbers or having Soriano bat third with half Soriano numbers? If you ask me, they are almost equal, the leadoff being a bit better.

                            I agree Murton/Lee/Soriano/Ramirez would most likely score more runs, its not going to happen, so we gotta try to make the bets of the situation. I notice you decided not to comment on 2006 being his first year as a NLer, do I have a point there? And also, I think it was Bob who said this, that if you batted highest OBP to lowest OBP and vice-versa, it would not be a big difference for runs scored. I think he also stated that he would be leading off the 1st inning and afterthat, what are the chances he leads off the rest of them? He MIGHT leadoff one more time in the game. And if we have a lineup of...

                            Soriano
                            DeRosa
                            Lee
                            Ramirez
                            Jones
                            Murton
                            Barrett
                            Izturis
                            (pitcher slot)

                            What happens when we have Barrett or Murton leadoff? We could very well have Barrett get on, maybe stay opn 1st with an Izturis out, bunted over by pitcher and then Soriano comes up, with man on 2nd, 2 away. Wouldnt be all that shabby, what about when we give Izturis a day off and it is Theriot who takes his spot, then you got Theriot, gets on, pitcher bunts over and then Soriano with man in scoring position with 1 away.

                            Batting Soriano leadoff is not going to put the Cubs in last place, it might cost us a game or 2, but it wont be the difference between a World Series and in the dumpsters.

                            Why ya gotta be so pessimistic anyways, try to look on the brighter sides of things, Soriano is going to bat leadoff no matter what, you cant change that, so do what I do, find the reasons he will excel instead of blunder. You gotta stay positive if you want the positive stuff to happen.
                            "I don't like to sound egotistical, but every time I stepped up to the plate with a bat in my hands, I couldn't help but feel sorry for the pitcher."
                            -Rogers Hornsby-

                            "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
                            -Rogers Hornsby-

                            Just a note to all the active members of BBF, I consider all of you the smartest baseball people I have ever communicated with and love everyday I am on here. Thank you all!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Cubsfan97
                              You gotta stay positive if you want the positive stuff to happen.
                              No I don't, not as it relates to what takes place on the baseball field anyway.

                              I'll choose to be pleasantly surprised if he does excel rather than expect that he will and be disappointed when he doesn't.
                              Jerseys hanging in my den : Santo, Jenkins, Williams, Banks, Grace, Sandberg, Dawson, Eckersley, Sutcliffe, Wood, Prior, Zambrano, Lee

                              Oddly enough, I never bought a Sosa jersey, even during his best years.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by tearforamariner
                                I think Soriano is fastly becoming underrated with all this talk of him being overrated. Yes, he has bee overrated in the past, and yes he might be overrated still today, but now we have people talking about Soriano as if he's the worst player in the league and he's not. He has a low OBP, but lots of power and speed. Maybe if the Cubs' hitting coach can work with him on patience in the box, he could be an MVP caliber player. The only hole I see his play (when he's an outfielder that is) is that OBP. A lot of players have had low OBPs and have been praised by the media and the fans, even the Cubs' precious Andre Dawson.
                                It's extremely hard to teach patience and a good eye and I don't see him improving his OBP much.
                                Hitting is timing, pitching is upsetting timing.
                                -Warren Spahn

                                It's a round ball and a round bat and you gotta hit it square.
                                -Pete Rose


                                Good pitching always beats good hitting...and vice versa.
                                -Yogi Berra

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