Ohman And Pierre come to terms

[redwhitenblue]

Score reports(as well as cubs.com) that the Cubs came to terms on one-year deals for Will Ohman and Juan Pierre

Only person left in arbitration is big Z

[Slightly Sarcastic]

Hopefully they are working out a long term deal with Zambrano instead of just a 1 year deal.

[redwhitenblue]

i heard 610K for Ohman and 5.75 million for Pierre, around middle ground for both

[burger eater]

What did they come to terms with? The fact that they play for the Cubs?
Now get Big Z locked up for 5-10 years, whatever he wants, and work on a 3 year extension for Pierre.

They're throwing money around anyway, may as well give it to good players.

[Slightly Sarcastic]

I'm all for locking up Zambrano long term, but Pierre?

No thanks.

[burger eater]

I forgot, Felix Pie is coming to save the day.

I'll take a guaranteed major league leadoff hitter like Pierre for the next 3 years rather than wait for a CF prospect or look around for a new CF'er every year while waiting 4-5 years on Pie.

[Slightly Sarcastic]

I'll take a guaranteed major league leadoff hitter like Pierre for the next 3 years rather than wait for a CF prospect or look around for a new CF'er every year while waiting 4-5 years on Pie.

And I'd rather not throw away $6M a year on an insanely overrated punching judy that steals bases poorly and can't hit the ball out of the infield.

Just thinking about having Pierre for 3 more years makes me throw up a little.

[burger eater]

Being that it's not your money... you're not throwing away anything.
Pierre is hardly overrated. He's a prototypical leadoff hitter, no one calls him anything else. He's not expected to hit cleanup or drive in 90 runs. He's expected to lead off, steal bases, take extra bases, avoid the double play, have the ability to bunt, give the pitcher something else to think about. He does those all of those things.

Don't throw up unless it tastes like bananas. Then you can eat it again.

[Slightly Sarcastic]

Being that it's not your money... you're not throwing away anything.
Pierre is hardly overrated. He's a prototypical leadoff hitter, no one calls him anything else. He's not expected to hit cleanup or drive in 90 runs. He's expected to lead off, steal bases, take extra bases, avoid the double play, have the ability to bunt, give the pitcher something else to think about. He does those all of those things.

Don't throw up unless it tastes like bananas. Then you can eat it again.

Ok, I'd rather not see my team throw away money on an insanely overrated punching judy that steals poorly and can't hit the ball out of the infield.

He also doesn't walk enough or steal bases at a successful rate either. He's an upgrade from last year, but that's not saying much.


I don't eat bananas, I'm a carnivore.

[Bob Sacamento]

Being that it's not your money... you're not throwing away anything.
Pierre is hardly overrated. He's a prototypical leadoff hitter, no one calls him anything else. He's not expected to hit cleanup or drive in 90 runs. He's expected to lead off, steal bases, take extra bases, avoid the double play, have the ability to bunt, give the pitcher something else to think about. He does those all of those things.

Don't throw up unless it tastes like bananas. Then you can eat it again.

Pierre is one of the most overrated players in the game today, right up there with Soriano. Pierre relies on his speed so much that if he ever gets major or chronic injury to either of his legs then he is basically useless. He's not a prototypical leadoff, not in today's game of baseball, maybe back in the 50-60's his style was what was looked for in a leadoff hitter. And stealing bases has become a lost artform for a reason, because most guys can't effectively steal bases and it takes runners off the bases for producers. What's the sense of stealing 60 bases if your going to get caught 20 times? Sure the guy advanced to second base 60 times but the mathamatical avg of times that runner scores is very minimal (around 10-15%). Meaning of the 60 times Player X steals second, he only scores 6-9 times, while costing his team the 20 opportunities for him to be knocked in from first.

[burger eater]

I call shenanigans, Bob. Total BS...

Pierre is one of the most overrated players in the game today, right up there with Soriano.

What makes Pierre overrated? Because some like him/his skills and you don't.
I don't see him in any top 10 lists and more importantly, no team was offering a trade package for Pierre the came anywhere close to what Texas received for Soriano. Nothing even close.
Soriano receives infinitely more praise than Pierre and the 2 aren't even in the same league when it comes to being valued around MLB and by fans in general.

He was traded for Sergio Mitre and 2 prospects. If he was so overrated, surely someone would have topped that deal. The Marlins also knew the Cubs were dead set on aquiring him, otherwise he likely could've been had for the 2 prospects alone.

I'm sure you're aware of all of this:
Pierre has a career .305/.355 AVG/OBP
He's had 200 or more hits in 3 seasons
He had 181 last year in his worst season
He's one of the hardest guys in the league to strike out
He's played 162 games for 3 straight years and only missed 16 games over the past 5 years.

Putting the ball in play to reach base 180-200 times a season is still an effective way to contribute to a baseball team and for being such a weak singles hitter, he still manages to get 40-50 RBI's a year.

Plus Pierre is apparently one of the best "intangibles"/clubhouse guys around if that matters to you or anyone else. I'm sure it does to team mates.

Apparently Soriano is a selfish jagoff who refuses to move from 2B even if it would be best for his team and there's a better 2B-man already on the team.
He made sure to let his new team know immediately after trading for him that he won't be sticking around after this season.

Pierre relies on his speed so much that if he ever gets major or chronic injury to either of his legs then he is basically useless.

If Adam Dunn ever suffers major or chronic shoulder, wrist, or elbow injury, he'll be basically useless.
If Sammy ever suffers a loss of Flintstone vitamins, he'll be basically useless.
If Kerry Wood ever suffers a chronic shoulder injury...

That same pointless line can be used for most athletes and all pitchers. Look at Wood, certainly one of the most overrated players in the game the past 2 years. He hasn't come anywhere near earning his contract and has been the 3rd-4th best pitcher on his own team.

He's not a prototypical leadoff, not in today's game of baseball, maybe back in the 50-60's his style was what was looked for in a leadoff hitter. And stealing bases has become a lost artform for a reason...

This is just plain wrong...

Sure there's a reason, baseball became a juiced HR derby in the mid-late 90's and the skill of stealing a base disappeared because many players who had the speed sacrificed it in favor of bulking up. Until the steroid flux of the 90's, guys like Pierre were still prototypical leadoff hitters. They certainly were in the 80's. Now that many baseball players look like linebackers and use flaxseed oil, they've grown so big that they don't have a running game. There were a slew of Pierre-type leadoff guys in the 80's and Lofton did pretty good for himself in the 90's.
Prior to the 90's, baseball players were generally thinner and more athletic. They looked more like basketball & tennis players than football players.
The Cardinals dominated a few seasons throughout the 80's, in large part because of a strong running game.

I don't think Pierre puts a mediocre team over the top, but he does add a dimension that few teams have in their lineup.

[RBi]

Great Debate...

I think I am going to save this thread...

And refer to it mid-season!



Any idea when we can expect Carlos to sign and finish this arbitration bologna?

[rockin500]

how is pierre not your protypical leadoff hitter? that is wrong on so many levels.

[Slightly Sarcastic]

I don't care what Pierre's numbers are after the first month, at the ASB, or at the end of the season.

He's still overrated, and I sincerely hope we don't commit to him for anything more than this season.

[RBi]

I don't care what Pierre's numbers are after the first month, at the ASB, or at the end of the season.

He's still overrated, and I sincerely hope we don't commit to him for anything more than this season.

Well where is there any trace of him being "highly rated"???

What did we give him for him in a trade?

Who else was willing to give up more to get him?

I don't think he is "highly rated"

is he?