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  • #16
    Did you actually watch the game? Did you think Davis looked like a pitcher with a seasonal WHIP of 1.4? Did you say to yourself wow this guy is getting batted around? Did you say we should have 4 or 5 runs against him already? Not until the 6th inning did Davis ever get himself into trouble. Not until the 6th inning did Davis ever have more then one base runner. I might be wrong but not until the 6th inning was a single Cub runner standing on second. When that happens you don't score runs and the pitcher is controlling the game. It wasn't a bad outing for Davis. Yes he left the game with 2 men on and they scored. Sometimes it happens but generally with 2 outs it doesn't happen. But it did and it gets tacked on to his run total but it doesn't negate what he did to the Cubs in that game.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Ubiquitous View Post
      Did you actually watch the game? Did you think Davis looked like a pitcher with a seasonal WHIP of 1.4? Did you say to yourself wow this guy is getting batted around? Did you say we should have 4 or 5 runs against him already? Not until the 6th inning did Davis ever get himself into trouble. Not until the 6th inning did Davis ever have more then one base runner. I might be wrong but not until the 6th inning was a single Cub runner standing on second. When that happens you don't score runs and the pitcher is controlling the game. It wasn't a bad outing for Davis. Yes he left the game with 2 men on and they scored. Sometimes it happens but generally with 2 outs it doesn't happen. But it did and it gets tacked on to his run total but it doesn't negate what he did to the Cubs in that game.
      I didn't say he was getting batted around, I said he was not dominating. The post I responded to is that he was "having his way" with the Cubs' lineup, i.e. he did what he wanted to, i.e. he dominated the Cubs. Again, who in their right mind says that his performance was dominating, even in the broadest sense of the word? Are you really saying he was dominating? There's a difference between a decent game and dominating, and you do not seem to know the difference. I'm not sure whether I'd categorize his game as decent, but I know for damn sure it wasn't dominating.

      And yes, I saw the game. I can ask you the same thing. Why did he take 112 pitches before he finished? A pitcher in complete control doesn't take that many pitches before the sixth inning is finished. Both Zambrano and Webb finished off more batters with less than 90 pitches.

      Who cares whether it happened in the first inning or the 6th inning? Why does that matter in the least bit? A pitcher is responsible for the entire time he is out there. It doesn't matter if runs score with 2 outs or not. In fact, with 2 outs, the guy on first gets a head start and at the latest starts running on contact. Who gets the blame for the runs in the 6th? Cruz? Maybe part of the blame, but long ago, baseball people correctly decided inherited runners get charged to the guy who put them on. Cruz allowed one hit and had one strike out. Without Davis, no runs are scored on Cruz's watch. Those runs were earned, and properly charged to Davis.

      You claim to be this great stats guy, but you are so quick to abandon the hard numbers whenever they don't suit your needs. Pose the question to people you respect (assuming such people exist)--did Davis dominate the Cubs?
      To offset some of the pain of being a diehard Cubs fan, I've learned to also be a moderate Yankees fan.

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      • #18
        he was effective enough. dominating is such a variable word. for the 5 innings i actually watched, outside of a mistake to soto, davis was making the cubs batters look stupid.

        WHIP is not something you use on a one game basis. its all about sample size and one game is worthless as a sample size for average bases stats.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by rockin500 View Post
          he was effective enough. dominating is such a variable word. for the 5 innings i actually watched, outside of a mistake to soto, davis was making the cubs batters look stupid.

          WHIP is not something you use on a one game basis. its all about sample size and one game is worthless as a sample size for average bases stats.

          In the last 3 days alone, we've had pitchers with the following line:

          Carmona 9.0 IP 3 H 2 BB 5 K 1 ER 113 pitches
          Beckett 9.0 IP 4 H 0 BB 8 K 0 ER 108 pitches
          Zambrano 6.0 IP 4 H 1 BB 8 K 1 ER 85 pitches
          Webb 7 IP 4 H 3 BB 9 K 1 ER 89 pitches

          Compare the above with:

          Davis 5.2 IP 5 H 4 BB 8 K 4 ER 112 pitches

          "Dominating" may be difficult to define precisely, but like pornography vs. art, I know when something is pornographic and not artistic when I see it.

          My standard for "dominating" isn't impossibly high, I don't have to go back to Koufax to find a dominating game. WHIP isn't the end all be all, but that's not the only measure I cited. Earned runs and pitches thrown were also mentioned. Except for strikeouts, Davis's outing doesn't remotely resemble what the others did. This is just taking the best of 3 days of playoff play. There were at least 3 other pitchers not on that list that did better than Davis (Francis, Hammels, Pettite).

          Furthermore, for the season, Davis' WHIP is 1.6 with a season ERA of 4.25, so the WHIP for the game is exactly in line with his season WHIP, but the ERA are worse. However, even if he gave up 4 earned runs in 9 innings, I still cannot call that a dominating game.
          To offset some of the pain of being a diehard Cubs fan, I've learned to also be a moderate Yankees fan.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Scartissue View Post
            In the last 3 days alone, we've had pitchers with the following line:

            Carmona 9.0 IP 3 H 2 BB 5 K 1 ER 113 pitches
            Beckett 9.0 IP 4 H 0 BB 8 K 0 ER 108 pitches
            Zambrano 6.0 IP 4 H 1 BB 8 K 1 ER 85 pitches
            Webb 7 IP 4 H 3 BB 9 K 1 ER 89 pitches

            Compare the above with:

            Davis 5.2 IP 5 H 4 BB 8 K 4 ER 112 pitches

            "Dominating" may be difficult to define precisely, but like pornography vs. art, I know when something is pornographic and not artistic when I see it.

            My standard for "dominating" isn't impossibly high, I don't have to go back to Koufax to find a dominating game. WHIP isn't the end all be all, but that's not the only measure I cited. Earned runs and pitches thrown were also mentioned. Except for strikeouts, Davis's outing doesn't remotely resemble what the others did. This is just taking the best of 3 days of playoff play. There were at least 3 other pitchers not on that list that did better than Davis (Francis, Hammels, Pettite).

            Furthermore, for the season, Davis' WHIP is 1.6 with a season ERA of 4.25, so the WHIP for the game is exactly in line with his season WHIP, but the ERA are worse. However, even if he gave up 4 earned runs in 9 innings, I still cannot call that a dominating game.
            Maybe not dominating, but controlling....he kept an unproductive offense in check. Davis's season WHIP of 1.59 largely reflects the number of hits he was giving up (close to 7 per outing, and averaging about 5.2 IP per game), and he was having a horrible September.

            My point is only that his WHIP for this one game doesn't line up with what he did to the Cubs's offense. It's a stat that's only meaningful with a sample size larger than one outing.
            Senior Editor/Featured Writer for Home Of The Chiefs

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