2008 Chicago Cubs Season

[Scartissue]

How many effective pitches does he have anyway?

He uses only fastballs and sliders. Fastball averages around 94. Many converted starters take something off their pitches to last longer, so he may be in low 90s fastball as a starter.

[MIKELIMA]

Kerry 97 mph, reminds me of the good old days.

[MIKELIMA]

Love to see that happen, but he'd need to increase his repetoire to be really effective. He can develop more, but the question is when will he get to do that? It's hard to do really well as a starter with a limited number of pitches. Not saying it can't happen, but he would be exponentially more effective with just 1 more solid pitch.

I just feel at ease when he's up there. He's throwing a fast ball at about 96 so... thats nice. But even when he's in trouble like he was in the eighth today, i wasn't nervous. Plus, how many strikeouts in 2 innings, 5? That's pretty badass.

How many effective pitches does he have anyway?

[Scartissue]

Yeah, does anyone else think Marmol should replace someone as a starter, or am i all alone on this one?

Love to see that happen, but he'd need to increase his repetoire to be really effective. He can develop more, but the question is when will he get to do that? It's hard to do really well as a starter with a limited number of pitches. Not saying it can't happen, but he would be exponentially more effective with just 1 more solid pitch.

[MIKELIMA]

Yeah, does anyone else think Marmol should replace someone as a starter, or am i all alone on this one?

[Jeff Pico]

I just noticed this:
IP H R ER HR BB K
Howry's Peripherals: 8.0 15 8 7 0 2 1

One Strikeout? Wow, I didn't think he's been THAT bad!

Marmol: 10.3 5 2 2 0 2 12

...and he is supposed to come to earth this year?

Dempster: 19.0 9 6 5 1 9 13

...I take back everything I said ( you still walk to many people though)

Lilly: 18.7 25 19 19 4 7 14

....Mr. Lieber, your table is ready

[nathanKent]

You say that now but if Z went down with a more serious injury other than forearm cramping then you and most people would be crying foul for throwing him too much. If your memory is short-term let us not forget a few of our "aces" in the past that we didn't hold back and let them call their shots on when to come out of games in Kerry Wood and Mark Prior.

There's a fine line. Yes, at some point you have to pull the guy, but at 90-100 pitches, you're not there yet. 110+, yeah, it's probably time. But, as much as I loved Dusty, with Wood and Prior I think he would have left them in there all the way to 200 if he didn't have the need for an offensive substitution.

[Bob Sacamento]

I don't recall Baker calling out his players as often as Lou. That annoys me more than anything about Lou. I'm a firm believer that with athletic performance, positive reinforcement works a lot better than negative reinforcement. This was shown in several studies (though I read that many years ago, so the research could be outdated).

I'm totally with you there, Lou never takes blame for his decisions, instead he'll throw a player under the bus no problem and play it off as "building mental toughness". Baker at least said blame it on me, it was my call and then tell the player "shake it off we'll get'm next time". Living out here in the Northwest, everyone is still enamored with Lou and his Seattle days. But once in awhile I'll meet a diehard fan who'll didn't like Lou's tendencies; having favorites, starting lesser talented gritty players, sacrificing defense for offense, riding hot bullpen arms till they fall off, abusing bullpens, and little faith in callups.

Personally, I've played for both styles of coaches and I'll take playing for Dusty Baker everytime over Lou. The coach, I had that was very player friendly, wanted to know what was going on in your life, what you think about the pitcher, how's so-and-so's throws from SS, etc, just extremely personable and wanted feedback from his players. While another coach, wasn't much a player's coach he really didn't care how you felt or what you thought. Instead, he wanted to know what's wrong with your swing, why didn't you make the throw, just very critical. Both coaches had great success with their styles but 9 out of 10 players that I've met would rather play under the player coach. The other 1 out of 10 like the coach that lights the fire under their ass, doubts them and demands they prove themselves.

[Bob Sacamento]

Why is Soto sitting again????????????

Soto's started 12 of 15 games this season and playing the most demanding defensive position, he needs time off.

You can't hold back a pitcher because of that though. Especially your ace, and especially a guy as passionate as Z. Unless he's pitching poorly, you let him go for however long he feels comfortable or until you need to replace him for offensive purposes.

You say that now but if Z went down with a more serious injury other than forearm cramping then you and most people would be crying foul for throwing him too much. If your memory is short-term let us not forget a few of our "aces" in the past that we didn't hold back and let them call their shots on when to come out of games in Kerry Wood and Mark Prior.

And he's on fire this year. I'm crossing my fingers.... I think this could be the year he finally hits 20.

That depends alot upon the offensive output that he gets while throwing good ball. But as long as Zman is batting in his own lineup that's another force to reckon with.

[nathanKent]

I hear what you are saying, but truth be told, if Zman had hurt himself after the fifth or sixth inning, this chain of posts would look a lot different. The chances of being hurt are small on any given night, but when you think about it, a lot of starting pitchers hurt themselves at some point in the course of 33 potential starts, so the odds of getting hurt on a given night aren't miniscule either. We take for granted that Zman is different and a lot more durable than the average pitcher. However, even durable pitchers break down sometimes. Guys like Maddux that pitch their entire careers without injury are very rare, and are becoming even rarer in today's pitching environment.

You can't hold back a pitcher because of that though. Especially your ace, and especially a guy as passionate as Z. Unless he's pitching poorly, you let him go for however long he feels comfortable or until you need to replace him for offensive purposes.

And he's on fire this year. I'm crossing my fingers.... I think this could be the year he finally hits 20.

Why is Soto sitting again????????????

Likely it was because Lilly is struggling and Lou wanted him to work with the more advanced game caller. Besides, Blanco is doing well with the stick right now. He's not drawing walks or hitting for extra bases at all, so he's got a stat line of .333/.333/.333

[MIKELIMA]

Lilly's a bum.

[MIKELIMA]

Why is Soto sitting again????????????

[Scartissue]

And Cubs fan's bitched about Dusty Baker's short leash and lack of trusting his youngsters.

I don't recall Baker calling out his players as often as Lou. That annoys me more than anything about Lou. I'm a firm believer that with athletic performance, positive reinforcement works a lot better than negative reinforcement. This was shown in several studies (though I read that many years ago, so the research could be outdated).

[Scartissue]

I hear what you are saying, but truth be told, if Zman had hurt himself after the fifth or sixth inning, this chain of posts would look a lot different. The chances of being hurt are small on any given night, but when you think about it, a lot of starting pitchers hurt themselves at some point in the course of 33 potential starts, so the odds of getting hurt on a given night aren't miniscule either. We take for granted that Zman is different and a lot more durable than the average pitcher. However, even durable pitchers break down sometimes. Guys like Maddux that pitch their entire careers without injury are very rare, and are becoming even rarer in today's pitching environment.

[rockin500]

Maybe I'm being overprotective of ZMan right now, but this rotation scares the piss out of me when he's not pitching. I'm not drinking the Dempster kool-aid yet, Lilly and Hill are in funks, and I will never trust Marquis. Fair point that most of the pen's been taxed, but I would have pitched Marshall for at least three innings last night. He hasn't pitched in awhile, and we may need him to get some long relief for transitioning to the rotation at some point.

Tonight, we see Volquez. He was traded for Hamilton in a swap of high ceiling/high risk players. I'll be keeping an eye on Volquez over the next few years, as he is the indirect result of a favor the Cubs did for the Reds.

no way. you have to let zman get through 90 pitches. that allows him to get his work in. 102 pitches in a no stress environment is good for your ace. shorting him on pitches does nothing for you in terms of zambrano OR the pen. Because if you use Marshall last night as you would have liked to see, you wont be able to use him for 3 days. We may need him before that time is up.