Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

What To Do When Soriano Comes Back??

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • What To Do When Soriano Comes Back??

    Ok...now we've got a problem...but this time it's a good problem.

    The Cubs are 8-1 since Soriano went down. What should Lou do when he comes off the DL? With so many guys hot right now, and the team playing such good fundamental baseball without him, I'd hate to see any of the hot guys come out of the lineup for a guy hitting .176 and who always plays such poor fundamentals.

    I think he should have to earn his spot like everybody else. No one else on this team has been "given" anything. They've all had to earn it. I'd be very surprised if Lou sticks him back at leadoff with the team doing so well without him. I say stick him in the 7th hole at least until he starts hitting again...and if he doesn't like it (or isn't producing)...bench him!

    I heard someone saying on Mack, Jurco, and Harry yesterday that if the Yankees flounder, they might be interested in him again later in the year. We can only hope!

    And by the way...that deal for Brian Roberts that would have included Rony Cedano is starting to look like it falls into the category of: "Sometimes the best deals are the ones that aren't made."

    Would be interested in hearing other opinions...

  • #2
    When Soriano is ready to go, we put him in the lineup. We're not paying him the GDP of all of Yuba City, California to warm the bench for Reed Johnson.
    Senior Editor/Featured Writer for Home Of The Chiefs

    Comment


    • #3
      If you can find someone dumb enough to take Alf's contract and give up some decent talent in the process, I say do it before that person wakes up (Steinbrenner Jr. just might be dumb enough). He has a no trade clause, but since he likes NY, a waiver is certainly possible.

      Let's recap what we're getting with Alf for the money. The speed that many people touted when he came over is probably already permanently gone as far as basestealing goes. We're looking at maybe 15-20 SBs here on out, and nothing close to 40 for sure. He insists on batting leadoff, and yet his slugging value is minimized by hitting behind the pitcher. Plus, he won't take a walk even if the pitcher bounces the ball to the plate.

      His pluses are he plays a very good LF (but, let's not forget it is LF). He can still slug, but even if he hit 35 HRs, is the total package worth anywhere near what we are paying him? I think he's a $12 million per year guy at a contract that lasts another 3 to 4 years. Overpaying for him by as much as we do, that bill is going to come due someday, and I hope it doesn't come at the expense of guys like Hill, Marshall, Soto, Cedeno and Pie when they start to get more expensive.

      Can Alf help this team this year? Absolutely. Probably for a few more years after that. However, if we don't trade him now and try to trade him in 2 or 3 years, we'll have to eat part of his contract. I'd bet he'll be too stubborn to adapt his game when he ages. Some guys learn to take walks more as they age to compensate. If Alf doesn't learn to adapt his game over the next few years, this will be disastrous. Everyone's bat speed slows as age catches up. When he can't compensate with hand-eye coordination and bat speed anymore, it's gonna get real ugly in Wrigleyville's bleachers.
      To offset some of the pain of being a diehard Cubs fan, I've learned to also be a moderate Yankees fan.

      Comment


      • #4
        Not to mention, that contract is backloaded. He's going to be impossible to move, whether it's now, in a year, or with a year left on that contract. Throw in the fact that he's had a couple injuries, and he's looking to be a problem.

        As for the Yankees, I would be very surprised to see that happen. Cashman's in control of the team (for now at least), there's no question about that. Things have been going well for them when he's calling the shots, I think Hank Sr. realized that towards the end of his tenure. Alfonso is the type of player they're moving away from and to commit that much for him is ridiculous.

        Comment


        • #5
          Soriano was signed to such an outrageous contract for the purposes of adding a marquee player to enhance the value of the Cubs franchise thus making them more attractive to potential buyers. At the time of his signing, I'm sure some of the baseball people on the Cubs business side were thinking a player like Soriano could be moved if the deal became too unmanageable later on. Two years ago the Red Sox or the Yankees maybe would have been willing to take such a contract off the Cubs hands to reap the immediate benefit but I don't see it happening now. Oddly enough I think the market has changed and moving Soriano goes from tricky to nearly impossible.
          Let's all hope that Soriano ages gracefully and can at least play out his monsterous contract with some level of skill.

          Comment


          • #6
            Have you ever known a Cub player to age gracefully? LOL...

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by muscleman View Post
              Have you ever known a Cub player to age gracefully? LOL...
              Off the top of my head, the one guy that sticks out that has aged gracefully is Maddux.
              To offset some of the pain of being a diehard Cubs fan, I've learned to also be a moderate Yankees fan.

              Comment


              • #8
                I do not care that Soriano likes to bat leadoff. He needs to be further down the order once he's back in the lineup.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by nathanKent View Post
                  When Soriano is ready to go, we put him in the lineup. We're not paying him the GDP of all of Yuba City, California to warm the bench for Reed Johnson.
                  the yuba city comment made me spit my coffee,,,cause its probably true.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    If Lou is smart, he will ease Soriano back into the lineup lower in the order, and use the calf as cover. We are clicking without Alf, though our leadoff spot has been a black hole......

                    (From TCR):
                    Leadoff Man PA's as #1
                    AVG/OBP/SLG/OPS
                    Soriano 52 .208/.269/.354/623
                    Johnson 26 .190/.346/.238/584
                    Fontenot 15 .133/.133/.200/333
                    Theriot 9 .222/.222/.222/444

                    NOBODY has hit in the leadoff spot, which makes our offense of late even more amazing. I don't have the stats handy for slots 2 through 8, but I am sure that they are absolutely sick (in a good way).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The quest for Soriano's home runs to drive in 120 will likely never be met and is Quixotic. You can't make a race horse a work horse on the plow. (he does have the chewing part down)

                      He's convinced, stubborn, used to it, Yankees effects, sees better pitches, whatever it is psychologically or in reality... lead him off. Put an OBP machine in the five spot since he'll on average lead off the 2nd, bat an OBP machine 9th, I dunno. Do you think Bonds would ever lead off even if he draws seven walks for every home run and should lead off? No.

                      Soriano wants to lead off and be Rickey or whatever but forgets the walks. He won't be an on-base guy over a season. That's what he is and the guy they signed, they'll have to deal with it. When he moves down in the lineup his performance suffers. Better to have a solo homer than a groundout.

                      Briefly in Washington his OBP was over .360, which is not that great but at least leadoff adequate, but that faded. He also hit 46 HR.
                      Last edited by plask_stirlac; 04-24-2008, 12:42 PM.
                      (fantasy football)
                      JM: Only did that for a couple of years and then we had a conspiracy so it kind of turned me sour. Our league's commissioner, Lew Ford(notes) at the time, was doing some shady things that ... I'd rather not talk about [laughs].
                      DB: Isn't he in Japan right now?
                      JM: I don't know where Lou is right now. He's probably fleeing the authorities [laughs].

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by plask_stirlac View Post
                        The quest for Soriano's home runs to drive in 120 will likely never be met and is Quixotic. You can't make a race horse a work horse on the plow. (he does have the chewing part down)

                        He's convinced, stubborn, used to it, Yankees effects, sees better pitches, whatever it is psychologically or in reality... lead him off. Put an OBP machine in the five spot since he'll on average lead off the 2nd, bat an OBP machine 9th, I dunno. Do you think Bonds would ever lead off even if he draws seven walks for every home run and should lead off? No.

                        Soriano wants to lead off and be Rickey or whatever but forgets the walks. He won't be an on-base guy over a season. That's what he is and the guy they signed, they'll have to deal with it. When he moves down in the lineup his performance suffers. Better to have a solo homer than a groundout.

                        Briefly in Washington his OBP was over .360, which is not that great but at least leadoff adequate, but that faded. He also hit 46 HR.
                        I have been saying that all along my friend. I couldnt agree more. We payed him the money, knowing what we were getting. We have to live with it now.
                        "I don't like to sound egotistical, but every time I stepped up to the plate with a bat in my hands, I couldn't help but feel sorry for the pitcher."
                        -Rogers Hornsby-

                        "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
                        -Rogers Hornsby-

                        Just a note to all the active members of BBF, I consider all of you the smartest baseball people I have ever communicated with and love everyday I am on here. Thank you all!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by plask_stirlac View Post
                          He's [Soriano] convinced, stubborn, used to it, Yankees effects, sees better pitches, whatever it is psychologically or in reality... lead him off.

                          Soriano wants to lead off and be Rickey or whatever but forgets the walks. He won't be an on-base guy over a season. That's what he is and the guy they signed, they'll have to deal with it. When he moves down in the lineup his performance suffers. Better to have a solo homer than a groundout.
                          You started on the right trend, Soriano is a very selfish player; always has been. He's the closest thing we've had to Sammy Sosa, just without the awesome power. That also maybe why many Cubs fans and sites are coining the phrase "Sosa-iano".

                          Let's not forget that just a few years ago, Alf REFUSED/CRIED/WHINED about being moved from 2B to the OF. At points Soriano even told the Nats that he'd rather sit out a year than play the OF. So why wouldn't Alf play the OF? It wasn't because he couldn't play the OF instead, it was because he was on pace to destroy all offensive 2Bman records, which likely would have cemented him a spot in Cooperstown despite his offensive numbers. His potential historical significance wasn't the only factor for him not wanting to change positions, but his future paycheck was as well as he became a free agent after his one year in Washington. If there are two offensive players with the same numbers but one plays 2B and the other LF, we all know that the 2B is going to get more money.

                          Saying Alf's preformance diminishes when not batting leadoff, is not a fair comparison to the rest of appearances. As he's appeared in nearly 5x as many plate appearances there than anywhere else in the lineup. So what if he is comfortable hitting in the same lineup spot as he was his second full season in the MLB. In 04 and 05, the Rangers tried playing around with him in the 3rd and 5th spot but his home/split differential was down right atrocious, elsewise he was very solid there. Soriano is an ideal #3 hitter with his plate tendencies and it's time to slide him down there no matter how comfortable he feels. Case in point, Derrek Lee. Before the 2005 season, Lee was comfortable in the 6spot and he made a note of telling Dusty he felt at home there. But after the way Lee started raking the ball to begin the 05 season, Dusty quickly moved up the hitter in his lineup to get the most out his hitters' production despite Lee being comfortable and wanting to stay at #6. Since then Lee has excelled in 05 and 07 in the 3spot, and once again is in 08.
                          What a Batted Ball is Worth (in terms of a run):
                          Line Drive: .356
                          HBP: .342
                          Non-Intentional Walk: .315
                          Intentional Walk: .176
                          Outfield Fly: .035
                          Groundball: -.101
                          Bunts: -.103
                          Infield Fly: -.243
                          Strikeout: -.287
                          It's now officially Doctor Bob Sacamento, D.C., C.S.C.S., and working on my D.A.B.C.O. (Diplomate American Board of Chiropractic Orthopedics)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Well said, Bob.

                            First off, let's have no illusions. Soriano is gonna play when he comes back, most likely at the expense of Pie (at least in the short term). If/when Reed Johnson cools down then we'll see who Lou turns to (Murton, please let it be Murton).

                            And I must agree with Bob and others. Soriano NEEDS to move down in the lineup. As a leadoff man he is a complete mismatch. His speed is fading. His OBP is atrocious and the one thing he can still do effectively - hit for power - is often wasted in the leadoff spot.

                            Based on the numbers from our current batch of leadoff hitters JeffPico posted, I'd say go with Johnson at the top for now. His OBP is the best of the lot from the leadoff spot and that's with a horrid BA. If he keeps swinging a good stick, those numbers will improve. My ideal lineup has Murton 1 and Fukudome 2, but I'm not holding my breath. Plus I know Lou likes to ride the hot hand and Reed Johnson has played well enough to at least ride out this hot streak.
                            "I will calmly wait for my induction to the Baseball Hall of Fame."
                            - Sammy Sosa

                            "Get a comfy chair, Sammy, cause its gonna be a long wait."
                            - Craig Ashley (AKA Windy City Fan)

                            Comment

                            Ad Widget

                            Collapse
                            Working...
                            X