The All-Time Cubs Team

[dwj21792]

LF: Babe Ruth
CF: Mickey Mantle
RF: Reggie Jackson
1B: Lou Gehrig
2B: Tony Lazzeri
3B: Alex Rodriguez, or if you want to because of playing time Graig Nettles
SS: Derek Jeter
C: Yogi Berra
P: Whitey Ford
P: David Cone
P: Roger Clemens
P: Lefty Gomez
P: Herb Pennock
P: Red Ruffing
P: Mariano Riviera
P: Dave Righetti

And I don't even want to think of their subs. . . Mattingly, Dimaggio, Williams, Posada, Rizzuto, Winfield, Meusel, . . .


Yeah it would be close

I would take both Lyle and Gossage over Rags. Other than that I like that team.

[Sunny Jim]

Here's mine:

LF Billy Williams
Riggs Stephenson

CF. Hack Wilson
Andy Pafko

RF. Kiki Cutler
Hank Sauer

3rd. Ron Santo
Stan Hack

SS. Ernie Banks
Woody English

2nd. Ryne Sandberg
Billy Herman

1st Cap Anson
Mark Grace

C. Gabby Hartnet
Johnny Kling

SP Mordecai Brown
Fergie Jenkins
Hippo Vaughn
Charlie Root
Bill Hutchinson
Ken Holtzman

RP Bruce Sutter
Lee Smith

Anson is the Payer Manager. (He was a jerk but we're going to put him in the Star Trek Atavachron and prepare him for time travel into the future.)

Honorable Mention to Phil Caveretta, King Kelly and Claude Passeau. (And maybe Bill Madlock?)
Sammy Sosa is a drug enhanced, corked bat cheater. (Trade him to the South Side and let him play for Comiskey and the Black Sox. Maybe we can get another LHP.)
Maddox had his best years with the Braves.
Hornsby is a Cardinal
"Pete" Alexander is a Phillie.
Andre Dawson is an Expo.

Jim

[dwj21792]

Here's my 25 man roster based overwhelmingly (but not exclusively) on their contributions as Cubs ... names listed chronologically:

C - Johnny Kling (mostly because I wanted 2 catchers on the roster ... but I think Kling is the weakest link here)
C - Gabby Hartnett

1B - Cap Anson (not someone I'd want to have over to dinner, but he was a superstar in his day)
1B - Mark Grace

2B - Johnny Evers
2B - Rogers Hornsby (not the most loveable, but he has the numbers) [see "Edit" below]
2B - Ryne Sandberg

SS - Ernie Banks

3B - Stan Hack
3B - Ron Santo

LF - Jimmy Sheckard
LF - Billy Williams

CF - Jimmy Ryan
CF - Hack Wilson

RF - Sammy Sosa (I know his numbers are tainted ... but they're too big to ignore)

SP - Mordecai Brown
SP - Ed Reulbach
SP - Orval Overall (always sounded like a cartoon name to me, but that's not why he's here)
SP - Hippo Vaughn
SP - Fergie Jenkins

RP - Charlie Root
RP - Claude Passeau
RP - Bruce Sutter
RP - Lee Smith
RP - Greg Maddux

Reserves include Joe Tinker [see "Edit" below], Kiki Cuyler, John Clarkson, and Bill Hands

Manager / coaching staff - Frank Selee, Frank Chance, Joe McCarthy, Charlie Grimm, Buck O'Neil, and Leo Durocher ... hell, might as well make it a true Cubs staff and make it a rotating "college of coaches" for the managerial spot

[Edit: Put Joe Tinker in as a SS and remove Rogers Hornsby from the roster. As someone mentioned, his service with the Cubs was too limited to include him on the All-Time Cubs team. I thought (correctly) that he had been with the team for 4 years ... but his playing time in that period only amounted to about a year and a half at best, so I disqualified him. Suit up, Joe!]

I agree generally about longevity playing a factor in picking these teams. But all Hornsby did in that one year was set a franchise record for single season BA and help them win the pennant. If you are going to include one year wonders on an all-time team (I have to laugh at calling Hornsby that.) Hornsby wouldn't be a bad choice.
That said, the Cubs have three other 2nd basemen in the HOF. There's probably no need to include Hornsby.

[dwj21792]

Maddux #3?

Hmm ... Maddux is the 3rd best Cub pitcher ever according to the poll. Maddux is a great pitcher, but most of his greatness was with Braves. I wouldn't rate him that high.

Here's how Lee Sinins ranks Cubs pitchers, using the measure "runs saved above average," which essentially compares a pitcher's performance with the average performance for that pitcher's league and era:

RSAA RSAA
1 John Clarkson 261
2 Three Finger Brown 252
3 Clark Griffith 227
4 Ferguson Jenkins 201
5 Larry Corcoran 188
6 Grover C Alexander 179
7 Bill Hutchison 164
8 Lon Warneke 158
9 Hippo Vaughn 148
10 Charlie Root 144
T11 Rick Reuschel 130
T11 Bill Hands 130
13 Claude Passeau 127
14 Ed Reulbach 121
15 Greg Maddux 97

I left the 19th century guys in regular type, because they really aren't comparable to the rest. Maddux still comes out as just the 11th best modern Cub using this measure.

I have to confess I like Sinins' list because Bill Hands ranks so high. One of my favorite Cub pitchers.

Maddux did win a Cy Young in Chicago.

[Hammerin Hank]

Back when we actually had enough active members to make polls and come to a general consensus on such subjects. One wonders what updates would have to be made over the last ten years, if any. As previously said, criteria for the polls is that a player play in his primary position on the Cubs for five years. Too bad all the threads from '02 through '04 are history so we could review the discussion on those guys. Probably for the best. I think my post count would be at least double if the site didn't make those purges. I know I took a break from posting in '05 and my post count had already surpassed 10,000. Sure is fun reminiscing about the good ol' days.

[chicagowhitesox1173]

yeah sosa was something else with that radio, i still cant believe how bigheaded he was during his tenure with the cubs.

[The Uncoach]

You know what i do believe steroids ruined the homerun records and to be honest would Sosa have had a career like Dawson without steroids, I seriously doubt it. you do have a good point of picking Dawson. I still would pick Sosa only because he played with the Cubs for 12 years compared to Dawsons 6 years. Even with the steroids its hard to not pick a guy who hits 60 homeruns 3 times as your all-time best righfielder.

Yep. I understand where you're coming from and why you would want to put him on the list. He was a fixture in RF for a very long time. I would almost put Girardi on the all-time list at catcher just because of the story that he had the decency to turn the volume down on Sosa's stereo.

[chicagowhitesox1173]

Nice guys finish last? Is that why dawson called the steroid users a "stain on the game" in his hall of fame speech? I didn't realize being in the HoF was finishing last.

You know what i do believe steroids ruined the homerun records and to be honest would Sosa have had a career like Dawson without steroids, I seriously doubt it. you do have a good point of picking Dawson. I still would pick Sosa only because he played with the Cubs for 12 years compared to Dawsons 6 years. Even with the steroids its hard to not pick a guy who hits 60 homeruns 3 times as your all-time best righfielder.

[The Uncoach]

Well i was kinda wrong on Dawson he actually had 6 decent years with the Cubs so I supppose you could take him over Sosa. Personally I still would take Sosa as the Cubs best right fielder. Yeah Sosa did more than likely use steroids but you gotta admit baseball sure didnt seem to mind in 1998. What is that old saying? (nice guys finish last) Sosa over Dawson

Nice guys finish last? Is that why dawson called the steroid users a "stain on the game" in his hall of fame speech? I didn't realize being in the HoF was finishing last.

[chicagowhitesox1173]

Sosa was a horrible outfielder who didn't know what a cutoff man was. He doesn't belong on any all-time list except a Hall of Shame. Dawson was an MVP on a last place team. That is rare for anyone in any uniform.

Well i was kinda wrong on Dawson he actually had 6 decent years with the Cubs so I supppose you could take him over Sosa. Personally I still would take Sosa as the Cubs best right fielder. Yeah Sosa did more than likely use steroids but you gotta admit baseball sure didnt seem to mind in 1998. What is that old saying? (nice guys finish last) Sosa over Dawson

[The Uncoach]

Sosa was a horrible outfielder who didn't know what a cutoff man was. He doesn't belong on any all-time list except a Hall of Shame. Dawson was an MVP on a last place team. That is rare for anyone in any uniform.

[chicagowhitesox1173]

You really cant put Roger Hornsby on a all-time Cubs team, he only played 1 full season with the Cubs, Dawson is a great choice for the Expos but not the Cubs. Dawson just wasnt with the Cubs long enough and too be honest id say he had maybe 3 good years with the Cubs maybe 4 i cant remember. I know it s hard to pick Sosa but you almost have to for the Cubs rightfielder. I would take Kiki Cuyler over Dawson in right.

[The Uncoach]

No apologies needed about Rogers Hornsby. Ted Williams considered him one of the best, if not the best, RH hitters of all time. As for having Corky on your list in Right Field, Dawson was a much better outfielder and is in the HoF.

[CubbyBear62]

Here's my 25 man roster based overwhelmingly (but not exclusively) on their contributions as Cubs ... names listed chronologically:

C - Johnny Kling (mostly because I wanted 2 catchers on the roster ... but I think Kling is the weakest link here)
C - Gabby Hartnett

1B - Cap Anson (not someone I'd want to have over to dinner, but he was a superstar in his day)
1B - Mark Grace

2B - Johnny Evers
2B - Rogers Hornsby (not the most loveable, but he has the numbers) [see "Edit" below]
2B - Ryne Sandberg

SS - Ernie Banks

3B - Stan Hack
3B - Ron Santo

LF - Jimmy Sheckard
LF - Billy Williams

CF - Jimmy Ryan
CF - Hack Wilson

RF - Sammy Sosa (I know his numbers are tainted ... but they're too big to ignore)

SP - Mordecai Brown
SP - Ed Reulbach
SP - Orval Overall (always sounded like a cartoon name to me, but that's not why he's here)
SP - Hippo Vaughn
SP - Fergie Jenkins

RP - Charlie Root
RP - Claude Passeau
RP - Bruce Sutter
RP - Lee Smith
RP - Greg Maddux

Reserves include Joe Tinker [see "Edit" below], Kiki Cuyler, John Clarkson, and Bill Hands

Manager / coaching staff - Frank Selee, Frank Chance, Joe McCarthy, Charlie Grimm, Buck O'Neil, and Leo Durocher ... hell, might as well make it a true Cubs staff and make it a rotating "college of coaches" for the managerial spot

[Edit: Put Joe Tinker in as a SS and remove Rogers Hornsby from the roster. As someone mentioned, his service with the Cubs was too limited to include him on the All-Time Cubs team. I thought (correctly) that he had been with the team for 4 years ... but his playing time in that period only amounted to about a year and a half at best, so I disqualified him. Suit up, Joe!]

[CubbyBear62]

It seems there is some confusion as to who qualifies. Maybe there should be TWO lists: one for achievements solely in a Cubs uniform and another for lifetime achievements by players who also happened to be Cubs at some time in their career. Guys like Greg Maddux would be a lock for the second team, but debatable for the first one. I know this only complicates matters so sorry for that. Maybe have two separate threads?