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  • #31
    Originally posted by Whitesoxnut
    Well, not to throw a wet blanket on anything. Unfortunately Nevin is 35yo and most pitchers hes going to face are righties. He's batting what? .204 this year?
    Yeah, but he's got more RBI's than anyone on the Cubs roster.

    On a side note, I do believe that Nevin in the lineup tonight will boost the rest of the team. We could see our boys win 2 of 3.
    Last edited by Lipsander; 06-02-2006, 09:56 AM.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Whitesoxnut
      Well, not to throw a wet blanket on anything. Unfortunately Nevin is 35yo and most pitchers hes going to face are righties. He's batting what? .204 this year? And I'm not saying this is exactly a bad move because your giving up nothing to get...well.....not much. At least its not costing the Tribune "nor I or you" anything, which is why they made the trade. "They" are the ones making millions off of this team. Not I, or you, or anyone else.

      But the real significant point here is that the Rangers are paying the guy to come here and play at Wrigley. And I might add that anyone who is being paid 10.5 million to hit DH, at a .204 clip, should be awful happy he's just got a job and shouldn't be complaining about hitting DH. And no matter what he does the Cubs are still left in a position of great weakness across the board due to lousy management and personnel decisions, the worst of which is a rebuilding weakness. I mean forget 2006. Whats their 2 or 3 year plan? Or does it even matter anymore when your drawing almost 40,000 a game at an average of $32 a seat?

      Oh, and the big difference between the owners in your signature is that only one has never won a championship.
      Nevin will have to face righties while Lee recovers, but once Lee is back, Nevin moves to the bench and should be used as a platoon player.

      I'll agree that the Cubs should really look beyond 2006. But I really don't think we're too far away from being a solid contendor. On the infield, Rameriz, Cedano, and Lee should be able to play together for a long time. That only leaves second base as a potential problem. Walker is acceptable at second, but he's a vet that could be traded for youngsters. I like Murton in the outfield, but we need some power out there. Pie is the minors and hopefully will be ready by next year. Jones is in left and signed for two more years after this one, but he's really not the answer for us. We'd be smart to try and trade him and hope to sign a real slugger in the off season.

      Pitching wise, Wood is gone after this year unless he comes back for a bargin. That opens up some salary for that slugger I mentioned. Zambrano and Marshall are soild youngsters, and I'm not ready to give up on Prior. That leaves 2 spots to be filled. Maddux is a reasonable 3 or 4 guy, but it will depend on how much money he wants and if he wants to play after this year. Hill and Guzman are in the minors, but I'd like to have one more reliable starter and then let them fight it out for the last spot.

      Our pen is currently solid, if a bit overpriced. If Wood came back, I'd use him as a closer. He's got the stuff for it, and it would probably ease the burden on his arm. I'd probably trade Erye or Howry for some value as well, probably Howry since he's older and its harder to replace a lefty.
      "I will calmly wait for my induction to the Baseball Hall of Fame."
      - Sammy Sosa

      "Get a comfy chair, Sammy, cause its gonna be a long wait."
      - Craig Ashley (AKA Windy City Fan)

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      • #33
        Marshall is holding a spot that has yet to be cemented. Maddux is not the type of guy one should be counting on for future success. Hill is looking more and more like a "AAAA" player. After this season you got Zambrano and Mark "Roulette" Prior, and that is about it. So in reality you have Zambrano and that is it.

        On the positional side you have Barrett for only one more year plus Aramis and Lee locked up. Cedeno and Murton are youngsters but there is no guarantee that Cedeno is going to be average or a bonus for the Cubs. If his bat doesn't improve him being on this team isn't an addition its a subtraction. Murton is shaping up to be one of those no-name average guys who while at their peak are starters and then become role players as they age. Nothing wrong with that, teams need these players, and if Murton can stay at that level for awhile it is nice problem solver. One less position that can cause problems and can let you focus on other positions. Such as CF which again the Cubs have nothing proven and even if Pie does turn out to be a good starter it isn't like he is going to go Pujols and put up MVP numbers his first season. So if Pie becomes good it will be in 2008 or 2009. Over in right you have a guy who should be platooned and is at the edge of his usefulness.

        Going into 2007 the holes won't exist as much they will be replaced with questions. Such as will Cedeno step forward? Can Murton maintain or improve. Will Pie develop? Yes it is a different problem then having holes but it is a problem that can quickly become a hole. The Cubs next year because of contracts could have holes in SS, 2B, CF, and RF, with average to mediocre production in LF.

        The relievers that are doing good right now are locked up for a couple of seasons but that is not to say they will be good again next year or even in the second half of this year.

        This team in all reality is no closer to contending then they were last year or the year before that or the year before that. This team like all the 80's Cubs team is a lightning in a bottle team. If they can catch it they win 95 odd games and go to the playoffs. If they drop it they have a losing record. It's the type of team that on paper looks to be good enough to have the talent to finish barely above .500 under normal circumstances.

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        • #34
          nice post. also, next year is the year we finally see if cedeno can make a routine throw to first.

          To the guy two posts up:
          I think Walker is more than "acceptable." He's by far our MVP this season. He can hit for a good average, has good power, and is doing much better in the field, where he was underrated anyway. He's a real good guy to have around. He can be dangerous... he's one of those guys IMO that's on the level right before the stars.
          Last edited by workthecount; 06-02-2006, 03:06 PM.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Spieluhr
            Even if hes way past his prime, Nevin's got 31 RBIs, more than any Cub right now.
            never mind that no one hitting in front of Nevin had lower than a 350 OBP and that no one hitting in front of Ramirez has one better than 315 (unless Walker's hitting in front of him).
            RIP Dimebag, Mitch, John, & Grey Cat

            AUXILIUM MEUM A DOMINO

            Angel of Death
            Monarch to the kingdom of the dead
            Infamous butcher,
            Angel of Death

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            • #36
              Originally posted by workthecount
              nice post. also, next year is the year we finally see if cedeno can make a routine throw to first.

              To the guy two posts up:
              I think Walker is more than "acceptable." He's by far our MVP this season. He can hit for a good average, has good power, and is doing much better in the field, where he was underrated anyway. He's a real good guy to have around. He can be dangerous... he's one of those guys IMO that's on the level right before the stars.
              I was probably underselling Waler with "acceptable", but he's not great either. This has been one of his better season so far, but we'll see how he finishes. He does not have good power, his career SLG is just a tad above the league average. That said, he's easily my favorite of the collection of second basemen we have. Easily the best one, which made all the more baffling that Hendry dangled him as trade bait in the off season, and Dusty was reluctant to annoint him as a everyday starter this year.

              However, he is 33, so I could see dangling him now, with this season down the crapper.

              Ubiquitous: Cedano has shown a pretty good bat for average, though his walk total remains very low. On the field, he's shown flashes of brilliance while at times making some poor plays. All part of being a young player. Even if he doesn't work out at SS, he should be able to move to 2B and do just fine.

              I also think you're underselling Murton a bit. It's certainly possible he'll have the career you describe, but I think he's got the potential to be even better. He's a smart, patient hitter. I think his average and OBP will only go up. He may develop into a medium power hitter (20-25 HR), but even if not I see a Mark Grace like bat.

              Marshall has shown a little more promise than you give him credit for too. He's shown a lot of smarts and poise on the mound. He's been inconsistent, but that's to be expected for a young pitcher. In ten starts, 5 of them have been quality starts (and pretty good ones too), he has another good five inning start and 4 bad outings, with two of them being real clunkers. I'm not saying I think Marshall is going to develop into an outstanding pitcher, but I feel comfortable penciling him in as a back of the rotation starter.

              Coaching is part of the problem for these youngsters. Dusty is on record saying he doesn't think walks are a big deal, for his offense or his pitchers. Not surprisingly, we're one of the worst teams at taking walks and at giving them. I even heard they're trying to mess with Murton's approach and get him swing at more pitches. :grouchy

              I think these three are promising young players. Maybe not superstars in the making, but potential solid pieces. Granted, they're not a sure thing, but I like their potential futures.
              "I will calmly wait for my induction to the Baseball Hall of Fame."
              - Sammy Sosa

              "Get a comfy chair, Sammy, cause its gonna be a long wait."
              - Craig Ashley (AKA Windy City Fan)

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              • #37
                Marshall's starts tend to be against poor teams and in favorable conditions. That is probably luck of the draw but there is a reason why he had a 5.00 ERA (now 4.80). Right now at best he is back of the rotation but he is yet to prove he can even stay there long term. He is a pitcher that must have pinpoint control and unlike Maddux or Glavine he is yet to prove he can master that consistently. Or even to the degree that someone like Steve Trachsel has shown to posess.

                As for Cedeno a player who relies on batting average either needs it to be high or for it to be made up of XBH or else it is rather empty. A .290 avg with no walks and no power is not good not even close to it, and as we have seen in weeks prior when those singles dry up he is pretty much useless on the offensive side.

                All I'm saying is that Cubs fans tend to look at their youngsters and their players and expect best case scenarios to happen for them well into the future. 9 times out of 10 that doesn't happen, but that failure doesn't change the optimism on the next crop. Gary Scott the new Ron Santo, Corey Patterson the new Sammy Sosa, Matt Murton the new Mark Grace, Juan Cruz are next ace, what was the name of that reliever everybody thought was going to be our great closer (Beltran?). Like I said happiness and best case or even very good case scenarios don't happen usually. And what is worse relying on these wishes to come true to build a club around is fatal to the chances of winning something. Which is part of the reason why the Cubs have been so inept for awhile now.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Ubiquitous
                  Marshall's starts tend to be against poor teams and in favorable conditions. That is probably luck of the draw but there is a reason why he had a 5.00 ERA (now 4.80). Right now at best he is back of the rotation but he is yet to prove he can even stay there long term. He is a pitcher that must have pinpoint control and unlike Maddux or Glavine he is yet to prove he can master that consistently. Or even to the degree that someone like Steve Trachsel has shown to posess.
                  Marshall was thrusted into this rotation let us not forget that. Before this season, he had a grand total of 10 starts above AA; all things considering he's done a great job. Yes, his outstanding preformance have come against weaker competition but that's better than some of the Cubs' veteran starters and other rookies. And to his credit, Sean has posted strong back to back outings against some prime competition in Atlanta and Saint Louis.




                  Date Opp IP H ER HR BB K
                  Apr 9 STL 4.1 4 4 1 1 2
                  Apr 14 @ PIT 5.0 5 4 1 1 2
                  Apr 19 @ LAD 5.0 2 2 1 3 4
                  Apr 25 FLA 7.0 2 0 0 2 7
                  May 1 PIT 7.1 4 1 0 1 5
                  May 6 @ SDG 6.0 3 1 0 3 6
                  May 11 @ SFO 3.2 9 9 0 5 2
                  May 17 WAS 6.0 1 0 0 4 6
                  May 22 @ FLA 3.1 7 7 1 4 2
                  May 27 ATL 6.0 7 2 0 2 2
                  June 2 @STL 6.1 8 2 0 1 4
                  Last edited by Bob Sacamento; 06-03-2006, 03:21 AM.
                  What a Batted Ball is Worth (in terms of a run):
                  Line Drive: .356
                  HBP: .342
                  Non-Intentional Walk: .315
                  Intentional Walk: .176
                  Outfield Fly: .035
                  Groundball: -.101
                  Bunts: -.103
                  Infield Fly: -.243
                  Strikeout: -.287
                  It's now officially Doctor Bob Sacamento, D.C., C.S.C.S., and working on my D.A.B.C.O. (Diplomate American Board of Chiropractic Orthopedics)

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                  • #39
                    Marshall is the real deal. The most impressive thing about the kid is he never gets frazzled. Yes, at times he tries to do to much, but he has a great mound presence for someone of his age and experience. Its time to cut the cord on Prior. You just have to be realistic here. And Wood? What are the chances he will come back here for a bargain price? Is he really going to go from making 12 million a year to 2 million to be a Cub again? Even with all the injuries a guy 70-54 with a 3.67 LT ERA can make a lot more money in a SP strapped game in an incentive laden contract. Maybe thats whats needed with some of these guys. "No pitchie , No payee".

                    As for Nevin he's been in MLB for 11 years and he's averaged about 18 home runs a year. Take away the two good years he had with the Padres, the only good years hes had, and he comes in at an average of 12.6 home runs a year. Nevin can still be productive, but hes only been so when hes gotten a lot of playing time.

                    Well......as of now? Let the kids play and they will tell you who's a keeper and who isn't. I think its time for the Cubs to rebuild and first on the list is getting rid of Wood and Prior. The fans will understand if they see a long term strategy.
                    "Let me start by telling you this: I have never used steroids. Period. I don't know how to say it any more clearly than that. Never." :hyper:

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                    • #40
                      I can't fault mgmt. for not cutting the cord on Prior yet, but we should have cut the cord on Wood after 2003 when his value was at its highest and we could have gotten something for him. He's never been a great pitcher--he had one great game years ago and has been good ever since, but nowhere near what everyone percieves him as. Not to mention he was horrendously overworked, coming off two straight 210+ inning seasons, which management should have seen and should have expected another injury or very declined performance given that and his history. Mgmt should have known he wouldn't keep up his 03 performance with the way they were working him. Basically, they should have truly understood the situation, and acted on it, neither of which they did.

                      I think Walker's power is underrated, he used to be a double machine until he came to Wrigley (which is what I was referring to, not his HRs per se). I think I was selling him too highly earlier though, but I still really like him. I agree that it was strange we were dangling him while we insisted on keeping Useless Neifi. They're the same age, but anyone with a brain can see Walker is miles better and more useful, or, useful at all.

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