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Prior...."there was a tear"

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  • Whitesoxnut
    replied
    You guys do remember how they denied the injury for weeks don't you? And how it was Steve Stone who first came out and said Prior was injured? I do agree injuries to Prior are "everyday occurrences" however. Or at least "every year". I think its time they cut their losses with this guy.

    Leave a comment:


  • rockin500
    replied
    Originally posted by Whitesoxnut
    Bob, I agree its awfully hard deciding who to believe. Most of all the Cubs. I mean they covered it up for how long?
    they first said it was inflammation and then after more testing called it a strain. which is what it was. how is that covering things up? Did they believe that it would linger so long? probably not, but who knows how a person's body heals?

    Leave a comment:


  • Bob Sacamento
    replied
    Originally posted by Whitesoxnut
    Bob, I agree its awfully hard deciding who to believe. Most of all the Cubs. I mean they covered it up for how long?
    They covered it? How by calling it what it is? a strain?

    If they wanted to be medically correct, the would have reported it as a secondary strain. But no one in sports does that, all teams release is that it's inflammation (primary strain) or a full tear (tertiary strain), while secondary strains are reported as strains. In fact the public should is lucky enough to get any medical information out of teams due to HIPPA regulations.

    And on the same line, if any other team comes out and says player X has a strain, no problem, the media reports just that. But when it involves the Cubs or Prior/Wood, the Chicago media turns into Oliver Stone. Making everyday occurances turn into conspiracy theories.

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  • Whitesoxnut
    replied
    Bob, I agree its awfully hard deciding who to believe. Most of all the Cubs. I mean they covered it up for how long?

    Leave a comment:


  • Bob Sacamento
    replied
    Originally posted by Whitesoxnut
    Well....what would an Associate Professor of Surgery from a Major teaching hospital know?
    Obviously not enough to be talking about the subject. I'll gladly take a world reknowned ND/DO (Chaitow) who's specialized in soft tissue repair, over a Pro. Ass Surgeon anyday of the week.

    And here it is 2 months into the season and he still hasnt returned to the team, from a "strain" that happened in March......................................

    I bet next time He'll wish for a "tear".
    A second degree strain costs about two-four months to recover motion and for inflammation to completely subside. While a complete tear (3rd degree strain) takes 6 months to a year.

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  • rockin500
    replied
    Originally posted by Whitesoxnut
    Well....what would an Associate Professor of Surgery from a Major teaching hospital know? And here it is 2 months into the season and he still hasnt returned to the team, from a "strain" that happened in March......................................

    I bet next time He'll wish for a "tear".
    anything involved with the muscles or tendons are tricky. theres a reason why you'd rather have a broken bone than a severe sprain.

    Leave a comment:


  • Whitesoxnut
    replied
    Originally posted by Bob Sacamento
    Propaganda news at it's finest. I'm a medical student at WSCC, entering 2nd year, and I just surveyed 15 different professors (some anatomist, clinicians, and medical doctors) and NONE of them would classify a strain as a "tear". Yes there are three categories of sprain, 1) inflammation to the muscle and connective tissue (-itis) 2) involves pulling/stretching muscle fibers/CT and 3) a complete tear. In fact Leon Chaitow, a world renowned ND/DO, laughed when I asked him at conference today. He said any medical professional that tries to use the two terms interchangably should have their license revoked.

    And in comment to Dr. Sherwin Ho's claim, "But the truth is we don't really know until you get in there with an arthroscope." That is completely false and only a surgery would say that. Truth be told chiropractors, naturopaths and a good MD are able to accurately diagnosis without cutting.
    Well....what would an Associate Professor of Surgery from a Major teaching hospital know? And here it is 2 months into the season and he still hasnt returned to the team, from a "strain" that happened in March......................................

    I bet next time He'll wish for a "tear".

    Leave a comment:


  • Bob Sacamento
    replied
    Propaganda news at it's finest. I'm a medical student at WSCC, entering 2nd year, and I just surveyed 15 different professors (some anatomist, clinicians, and medical doctors) and NONE of them would classify a strain as a "tear". Yes there are three categories of sprain, 1) inflammation to the muscle and connective tissue (-itis) 2) involves pulling/stretching muscle fibers/CT and 3) a complete tear. In fact Leon Chaitow, a world renowned ND/DO, laughed when I asked him at conference today. He said any medical professional that tries to use the two terms interchangably should have their license revoked.

    And in comment to Dr. Sherwin Ho's claim, "But the truth is we don't really know until you get in there with an arthroscope." That is completely false and only a surgery would say that. Truth be told chiropractors, naturopaths and a good MD are able to accurately diagnosis without cutting.

    Leave a comment:


  • Whitesoxnut
    replied
    Do you say "tomato" or do you say "tamahtoe"?

    CUBS

    It's a matter of semantics
    Terminology aside, medical experts agree a tear and a strain are exactly the same thing, writes David Haugh

    By David Haugh
    Published June 4, 2006


    Mark Prior is not a doctor. Nor does he play one on TV.

    But the medical accuracy of Prior's public diagnosis of the tear in his right shoulder could qualify the Cubs' pitcher for a guest spot on "Grey's Anatomy."

    Prior indeed has a shoulder tear, as he revealed Monday after his first rehabilitation start in Peoria. It also can be called a strained shoulder, as Cubs trainer Mark O'Neal has maintained since spring training.

    The difference?

    He says tomato. The Cubs say to-mah-toe.

    "A strain and a tear are exactly the same thing," says Al Green, who spent 18 years as head athletic trainer at the University of Kentucky and is a member of the National Athletic Trainers Association Hall of Fame.

    Green used to laugh at Wildcats athletes who answered "no" when asked if they ever had broken a bone.

    "Every year somebody would say, `No, but I fractured my wrist,'" Green says with a chuckle. "The difference between a fracture and a break is the same thing between a strain and a tear--there is none. It's a matter of semantics."

    Blame semantics for setting off the latest in a series of controversies relating to the Cubs' pitching staff, most notably Prior and Kerry Wood.

    Asking and answering 10 questions from last week's saga might help explain any, um, strained relations between Prior and the people waiting to watch him pitch.

    1. Why would the Cubs say "strain" instead of "tear"?

    In cases such as Prior's, Dr. Sherwin Ho explains that teams typically use the technical term for an injury to cover a wide range of severity. An MRI only answers so much.

    "They have to be vague," says Ho, an associate professor of surgery at the University of Chicago and a Blackhawks team physician. "We tend to use the word `strain' when we think it might be the lesser [extent] of the injury. But the truth is we don't really know until you get in there with an arthroscope."

    That would require surgery, so far unnecessary for Prior. Ho says Prior's strain likely falls into the category of a Grade 2, which involves a partial tear of the subscapularis under the arm pit in one of the four groups of rotator-cuff muscles. A Grade 1 shoulder strain usually is what is known as tendinitis; a Grade 3 strain is a complete tear.

    2. So were the Cubs misleading us during spring training?

    Not on the face of it, though the team may have earned a certain skepticism regarding its pitchers' injury reports. In addition to Prior, see Wood (out two months after originally diagnosed as missing two starts) and Joe Borowski (out with a slight shoulder tear in June 2004 and expected back by August; he didn't pitch again that season).

    But the Cubs had little to gain by putting a happy face on another setback. They probably could fill Wrigley Field for Prior's simulated games. And Prior's trade value slipped the minute he went on the disabled list again, whether the Cubs diagnosed the problem as a tear, a strain or a pimple.

    3. Did calling it a "strain" instead of a "tear" affect the perception of Prior?

    Sure, a shoulder tear sounds much worse than a strain. Referring to it as a tear might have made fans and media more understanding.

    4. Could the Cubs have put a halt to the notion that Prior is a pampered athlete before it mushroomed to the point that he lashed out, calling it "stupid"?

    That would have made sense from a PR standpoint, unless some of the doubts were coming from within the Cubs' organization as well.

    5. So was Prior trying to make a point last Monday by using the word "tear"?

    Not necessarily. Athletes seldom speak from the same glossary as trainers. He was more likely describing the extent of the injury as he understood it.

    6. Could the difference in language and interpretation create friction between the team and its injured player?

    It wouldn't be the first time. Back in 2004, for example, Bears defensive end Adewale Ogunleye identified a slight tear in his ankle ligament; the team insisted it was a strain. Ogunleye took that to mean the team was suggesting he was not hurt as badly as he knew he was.

    7. How does this change Prior's rehab schedule?

    It doesn't. But it might allow fans to understand better why a pitcher coming off a torn muscle in his throwing shoulder might struggle to regain velocity and control.

    8. So can the Cubs relax about Prior?

    Hardly. Wood returned last June after a stint on the disabled list with a "strained muscle" (e.g.: torn) and never looked right before shutting down in August.

    He eventually required surgery.

    9. Does that mean Prior eventually is going under the knife?

    "With a subscapular strain? Absolutely not," O'Neal told reporters Friday.

    10. Didn't the Mets also recently lose a key member to a shoulder strain too?

    Actually, that was the Met, where the maestro for the New York Metropolitan Opera was lost indefinitely with a strained shoulder after he fell onstage during an ovation he received while conducting the Boston Symphony.

    It still might be a while before Cubs fans are cheering Prior that hard.

    Leave a comment:


  • rockin500
    replied
    Originally posted by Whitesoxnut
    Guys they have been playing a game with this guy all pre-season, and season, long. Anyhoo..... Sean Marshall is the real deal "did you see that curve ball" and someone you build a future on.
    i think he is a good pitcher Sean just needs the consistency right now and thats hard for any rook. I certainly did like the curve ball.

    Leave a comment:


  • Whitesoxnut
    replied
    Guys they have been playing a game with this guy all pre-season, and season, long. Anyhoo..... Sean Marshall is the real deal "did you see that curve ball" and someone you build a future on.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bob Sacamento
    replied
    Originally posted by rockin500
    I dont know all that many docs who would label a strain as a tear unless it was pretty significant.
    Bingo. A strain varies on a scale, and yes it can involve tearing of muscle fibers in severe cases. But in layman's terms it's not a tear in terms of a serious injury in which the muscle has to be reattached to the bone.

    Everytime you strain or pull your muscle, you're tearing it. I bet everyone here has experienced a muscle fiber tear at some point in there lives and really don't think of it as a tear. You bend wrong, you're tearing erector spinae muscles or groin or hamstring muscles.

    Leave a comment:


  • rockin500
    replied
    Originally posted by Bob Sacamento
    There is a huge difference between a "tear" and a strain. This is no news thanks Nut.
    pretty much, a tear is just a strain thats beyond "moderate". At Least thats what i was taught with MY muscle strains from football in high school....

    I dont know all that many docs who would label a strain as a tear unless it was pretty significant.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bob Sacamento
    replied
    There is a huge difference between a "tear" and a strain. This is no news thanks Nut.
    Last edited by Bob Sacamento; 06-02-2006, 03:16 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Whitesoxnut
    replied
    Originally posted by rockin500
    its a strain so of course there was some kind of tear. there always is in a strain. Its what a strain IS. Whether its significant enough to actually be considered a (significant) tear is something else.
    So...oral sex really isnt sex A "strain" really cant be called a "tear"? Especially when there was no "injury" to begin with?

    Look, no disrespect to the Cubs fans, who are mostly good people, but this organization mostly lives in La-La Land.

    Leave a comment:

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