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  • Is it over for the Chicago Cubs?

    Damn i had such high hopes from this team, and i dont know for some reason they just are my favorite team since i was such a huge fan of Sammy Sosa.

    Why did Lee have to be the one to get injured? It so sucks, i think the Cubs would be winning their division right now with Lee in the lineup, i never knew how valuable he was to this team.

    I like it that they got Phil Nevin but come on Lee should be considered a superstar. He said he might get back before the all-star break but will it be too late by that time. I believe the Cubs can make an enormous turnaround but Kerry Wood and Mark Prior are gonna have to try to stay healthy for the rest of the season.

  • #2
    It's over. There's no hope for this pathetic excuse of a team until they fire Dusty and the coaching staff.

    Comment


    • #3
      my guess....

      I've got my money on 2008. Just watch. Just watch. Oh, and as long as I'm making some very far off predictions, I will say that the Yankees will now go until 2086 without winning a world series. The CURSE IS REVERSED! And for those of you who think that is impossible, consider this: anyone who said in the early 1900s that the Red Sox wouldnt win the WS until 2004, the white sox wont win til 2005 and the cubs still wouldnt have won anything by 2006, they would have thought those statements to be equally insane. So there.

      Comment


      • #4
        Lee was important but his presence isn't worth 15 more wins over 53 games.

        Lee wouldn't have made Wood and Prior healthy. Lee didn't keep Meifi Perez from being horrible last year and he wouldn't keep him from being horrible this year. His presence could have kept Neifi on the bench more, that is true but then again his presence wouldn't keep Pierre from being a sinkhole.

        With Lee I would say that the Cubs would be about 5-10 games better with the most likely amount 7. Which would put the Cubs right around .500 which is what they were last year and what they are this year with Wood and Prior on the DL.


        Enormous I don't think would be the right word for the turnaround needed for the Cubs. The Cubs are 15 games below .500 to get to the playoffs they need to be about 22 games above .500 possibly as low as 20 but I'll settle for 22 to be safe. Which means the Cubs over the next 95 games need to be 37 games over .500. Which means they need to go 66-29 the rest of the way out. That is a .695 winning %. The Astros the team everybody likes to look to for hope only had to go 61-34 at this point for a .642 %. They got in with 89 wins. Now it is possibly the Cubs get in with 90 but that would be an extremely close run thing. But even if it is 90 then that means they have to 64-31 for a .674 winning %.

        So basically one has to believe that if the Cubs had a healthy Prior, Wood, and Derrek Lee from the start of the seasons they would win anywhere from 109 to 113 games. Did anybody think they were this good before the season?

        In otherwords the season is dead and what they should be doing is looking towards the future. Which means players like Mabry, Womack, and Perez are useless right now. Mabry and Womack should be cut, and Neifi should be sent to the bench and should be barely used. Of course he should be cut but the Cubs have him on a multi-year contract. If the Cubs do not plan on bringinng back Pierre, and they shouldn't, then he should be gone as well. Through whatever means possible. Maddux should be traded to a contender (if he okays it) and Prior (if healthy), Zambrano, Marshall, and whichever two minor leaguers you believe should get a shot the rest of the way out. Whether that is Rich Hill or Williams or Guzman. Bring them up and tell from here on out you will get the ball every 5th day good or bad. See what they got if after 5 or so starts you see no improvement and in fact regression then switch them out for the other and let them finish out the season.

        On the positional side the Cubs should figure out what they want out of Todd Walker and second base. This is a bit tricky because the Cubs always seem to be looking for somebody at second during the offseason can't find anyone and then "settle" for Walker. So at this point I think it would be good for the Cubs and for Walker to sit down and figure out what they want for next year. I would give him a one year contract extension for next year with an option on the second year. If he won't go for it and he makes it clear that he will be looking for other options next year then it is pointless to have him on this team right now. Trade him and give a young guy some exposure at the major league level. Whether or not he is the answer isn't the point or just give it to Bynum and see if he shows any improvement. But I'm thinking that if the they have a sitdown Walker would agree to the contract. Well maybe I'm just really hoping he agrees to it because there are not a lot of options out there.

        Bring the pitching staff down to 11 which means whoever is the 12th man should go to the minors and let him pitch there and get his innings. Instead of taking up a spot at the major league level and getting 40 or so innings. Doing that allows the Cubs to bring up an extra bat. So somebody like Restovich who is really hot can be rewarded for his good play by being called up to the show while not blocking a shot for someone like Pagan when he comes back from the DL. That way the minors sees that hard work is reward even if you are not one of the chosen "Hot" prospect type players.

        The 25 man roster would look like:
        Prior (if Healthy otherwise Williams/Guzman/Hill)
        Zambrano
        Marshall
        Hill/Guzman
        Maddux/Wood (unless traded or not healthy then Guzman) If both stay and are healthy then Guzman or Hill will have to sit)
        Dempster
        Howry
        Eyre
        Novoa
        Ohman
        11th spot. Take your pick Aardsma/Guzman/Marmol somebody

        Derrek Lee
        Michael Barrett
        Henry Blanco (no real point to have him but I think anybody who replaces will be just as bad with the bat so no point getting rid of him)
        Aramis Ramirez
        Ronnie Cedeno
        Todd Walker
        Matt Murton
        Jacque Jones
        Phil Nevin (though again not really needed)
        Felix Pie
        Angel Pagan (when healthy)
        Mike Restovich
        Freddie Bynum


        Pie is not really doing anything to warrant being brought up so that pick is kind of controversial. But the Cubs think he is the future and they think he is close. So gving him a shot and seeing what he can do and what he needs to do at the major league level would probably be a good thing. It would let the Cubs know ahead of time if they are going to need other options next year.

        But of course this doesn't consider what the Cubs get back in trades. The Cubs might get some guys who should get the start when and if they trade Maddux and Pierre.

        Comment


        • #5
          I take no joy in this. Hell, I got a little choked up walking into Wrigley the other day for the 1st time in 22 years. And, I hate seeing it against the Tigers. But while they looked good on paper before the season, the truth is they were already setup to fail. They need a white flag garage sale right now, need to fire all the coaches, and Hendry and McPhail. And while they are at it they should sell the team.

          Its time to build for the future. Ive been saying it for weeks. let the kids play, have fun, and learn the game. Theres enough of a solid core there to build a contending team in a couple of years, especially with that payroll to play with, "but they are going to take some money hits". I feel bad for Cubdom. I guess I still have a little blue in me.
          "Let me start by telling you this: I have never used steroids. Period. I don't know how to say it any more clearly than that. Never." :hyper:

          Comment


          • #6
            McPhail out, Ubiquitous in.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Ubiquitous
              Lee was important but his presence isn't worth 15 more wins over 53 games.

              Lee wouldn't have made Wood and Prior healthy. Lee didn't keep Meifi Perez from being horrible last year and he wouldn't keep him from being horrible this year. His presence could have kept Neifi on the bench more, that is true but then again his presence wouldn't keep Pierre from being a sinkhole.

              With Lee I would say that the Cubs would be about 5-10 games better with the most likely amount 7. Which would put the Cubs right around .500 which is what they were last year and what they are this year with Wood and Prior on the DL.


              Enormous I don't think would be the right word for the turnaround needed for the Cubs. The Cubs are 15 games below .500 to get to the playoffs they need to be about 22 games above .500 possibly as low as 20 but I'll settle for 22 to be safe. Which means the Cubs over the next 95 games need to be 37 games over .500. Which means they need to go 66-29 the rest of the way out. That is a .695 winning %. The Astros the team everybody likes to look to for hope only had to go 61-34 at this point for a .642 %. They got in with 89 wins. Now it is possibly the Cubs get in with 90 but that would be an extremely close run thing. But even if it is 90 then that means they have to 64-31 for a .674 winning %.

              So basically one has to believe that if the Cubs had a healthy Prior, Wood, and Derrek Lee from the start of the seasons they would win anywhere from 109 to 113 games. Did anybody think they were this good before the season?

              In otherwords the season is dead and what they should be doing is looking towards the future. Which means players like Mabry, Womack, and Perez are useless right now. Mabry and Womack should be cut, and Neifi should be sent to the bench and should be barely used. Of course he should be cut but the Cubs have him on a multi-year contract. If the Cubs do not plan on bringinng back Pierre, and they shouldn't, then he should be gone as well. Through whatever means possible. Maddux should be traded to a contender (if he okays it) and Prior (if healthy), Zambrano, Marshall, and whichever two minor leaguers you believe should get a shot the rest of the way out. Whether that is Rich Hill or Williams or Guzman. Bring them up and tell from here on out you will get the ball every 5th day good or bad. See what they got if after 5 or so starts you see no improvement and in fact regression then switch them out for the other and let them finish out the season.

              On the positional side the Cubs should figure out what they want out of Todd Walker and second base. This is a bit tricky because the Cubs always seem to be looking for somebody at second during the offseason can't find anyone and then "settle" for Walker. So at this point I think it would be good for the Cubs and for Walker to sit down and figure out what they want for next year. I would give him a one year contract extension for next year with an option on the second year. If he won't go for it and he makes it clear that he will be looking for other options next year then it is pointless to have him on this team right now. Trade him and give a young guy some exposure at the major league level. Whether or not he is the answer isn't the point or just give it to Bynum and see if he shows any improvement. But I'm thinking that if the they have a sitdown Walker would agree to the contract. Well maybe I'm just really hoping he agrees to it because there are not a lot of options out there.

              Bring the pitching staff down to 11 which means whoever is the 12th man should go to the minors and let him pitch there and get his innings. Instead of taking up a spot at the major league level and getting 40 or so innings. Doing that allows the Cubs to bring up an extra bat. So somebody like Restovich who is really hot can be rewarded for his good play by being called up to the show while not blocking a shot for someone like Pagan when he comes back from the DL. That way the minors sees that hard work is reward even if you are not one of the chosen "Hot" prospect type players.

              The 25 man roster would look like:
              Prior (if Healthy otherwise Williams/Guzman/Hill)
              Zambrano
              Marshall
              Hill/Guzman
              Maddux/Wood (unless traded or not healthy then Guzman) If both stay and are healthy then Guzman or Hill will have to sit)
              Dempster
              Howry
              Eyre
              Novoa
              Ohman
              11th spot. Take your pick Aardsma/Guzman/Marmol somebody

              Derrek Lee
              Michael Barrett
              Henry Blanco (no real point to have him but I think anybody who replaces will be just as bad with the bat so no point getting rid of him)
              Aramis Ramirez
              Ronnie Cedeno
              Todd Walker
              Matt Murton
              Jacque Jones
              Phil Nevin (though again not really needed)
              Felix Pie
              Angel Pagan (when healthy)
              Mike Restovich
              Freddie Bynum


              Pie is not really doing anything to warrant being brought up so that pick is kind of controversial. But the Cubs think he is the future and they think he is close. So gving him a shot and seeing what he can do and what he needs to do at the major league level would probably be a good thing. It would let the Cubs know ahead of time if they are going to need other options next year.

              But of course this doesn't consider what the Cubs get back in trades. The Cubs might get some guys who should get the start when and if they trade Maddux and Pierre.


              This makes so damn much sense that there is zero chance of it happening.
              Jerseys hanging in my den : Santo, Jenkins, Williams, Banks, Grace, Sandberg, Dawson, Eckersley, Sutcliffe, Wood, Prior, Zambrano, Lee

              Oddly enough, I never bought a Sosa jersey, even during his best years.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by The Big C
                McPhail out, Ubiquitous in.
                We can only hope. Ubiquitous, have you ever though of managing?
                "I don't like to sound egotistical, but every time I stepped up to the plate with a bat in my hands, I couldn't help but feel sorry for the pitcher."
                -Rogers Hornsby-

                "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
                -Rogers Hornsby-

                Just a note to all the active members of BBF, I consider all of you the smartest baseball people I have ever communicated with and love everyday I am on here. Thank you all!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Ubiquitous
                  Lee was important but his presence isn't worth 15 more wins over 53 games.

                  On the contrary, Lee provides better pitches for the people in front and behind him. Not to mention the huge huge lift mentally that the Cubs would still have had. I believe 100% that the Cubs would be 2nd in the central if he hadn't got hurt. I can't tell you how many games I've watched this year that our pitching gave up 1, 2, or 3 runs and took the loss.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Guys get hurt and you have to have a team capable of picking up the slack. Also, Cub fans are being overly optimistic to expect Lee to hang up the same numbers as last year. Kerry Wood is what he is. A guy who is going to spend have his time on the DL and the other half underachieving. Prior hasn't been the same since Dusty decided to let him throw a million pitches in a playoff game that was in the bag.
                    Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I can't tell you how many games I've watched this year that our pitching gave up 1, 2, or 3 runs and took the loss.
                      About 6. There is about 6 games this year the Cubs lost and gave up less then 4 runs while Derrek Lee was out.



                      Derrek Lee was Derrek Lee last year and the players in front of him were dreadful. Why would Neifi suddenly be better this year because of Lee? Pierre wasn't good last year and he isn't good this year why would Lee change that. In order for the Cubs to be second place right now Derrek Lee would have to be an absolute monster. The difference between where they are now and second place is 11 wins over 60 games. That is a lot of impact. This team over the years have had Sammy Sosa and a seaon like that from Lee last year. Neither had that kind of impact. Sammy Sosa with a mediocre lineup and thin pitching was in the same place that the Cubs are in now. Derrek Lee last year with a mediocre lineup and a thin pitching staff was below .500. Heck last year at this point with Lee the Cubs were only 2 games above .500. Which even if somehow Lee was able to get the Cubs to they would still be in third place. The problems with this team are deeper then just missing Derrek Lee.

                      The Cubs have a bad leadoff hitter, were/are highly vulnerable to left handed pitchers, a horrible bench, misused bench player (Neifi), too large of a pitching staff, and too many injured starting pitchers. Derrek Lee could not solve all those problems.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I've been thinking about Kerry Wood. Anyone think once he's with another team, he'll be healthy the rest of his career and win all kinds of games? That's usually what happens when players leave the Cubs.....lol.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          He is going to have flashes where he is healthy and dominant but he is also going to have his DL years as well. Sort of like Brett Saberhagen over the last half of his career.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Ubiquitous
                            Heck last year at this point with Lee the Cubs were only 2 games above .500.
                            We also had Latroy Hawkins at the beginning of last year blow a ton of games.
                            "I don't like to sound egotistical, but every time I stepped up to the plate with a bat in my hands, I couldn't help but feel sorry for the pitcher."
                            -Rogers Hornsby-

                            "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
                            -Rogers Hornsby-

                            Just a note to all the active members of BBF, I consider all of you the smartest baseball people I have ever communicated with and love everyday I am on here. Thank you all!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              As in 4 games he lost? With several of those losses being in games in which the starter or the offense didn't do their job either.

                              Comment

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