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2019-2020 Offseason Plans

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  • 2019-2020 Offseason Plans

    What are your predictions? What would you do if you were running the club?
    "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
    "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
    "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
    "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

  • #2
    I see a very bright future for the Cincinnati Reds
    They are "NOT QUITE THERE" yet, but they'll be "GETTING THERE" SOON..
    Last edited by 1954 Phils; 10-07-2019, 09:28 AM.

    Comment


    • #3
      With all due respect, I see the opposite so long as Bob Castellini continues to suffer a homegrown front office. Season after season passes and the Reds have no plan besides "if everything goes well for our team - rookies produce, veterans find the fountain of youth, and everyone stays healthy - we'll compete", completely ignoring that the same being true for every other team would continue to render the Reds to the second division. (Is that term even used anymore?) The big plan, such as it is, is to get lucky. This offseason it seems to be spend money and get lucky. Any business plan that relies on everything going right for your business while everything goes wrong for your competitors in order for you to succeed is nothing more than wishful thinking. Yet that sums up the front office's "hope and change" every offseason.

      The Reds are a hot mess. From 1990-1995, they built a decently competitive team, winning a World Series, playing in the NLCS and finishing in 1st in the strike year. This was Marge Schott's swan song, however, and Jim Bowden (who got his job because of an IT background and because Marge was a cheapskate) made the mistake of betting the surprise 1999 team being "one player away" when he bet the ranch on Junior. Then there was The Plan, when that didn't work, to rebuild for the opening of Great American Ballpark, which was designed with Griffey's swing in mind, hoping to capitalize on the Quest for 756.

      That didn't happen and Bowden was sacked by Carl Lindner, who himself had only bought the team as an act of philanthropy for the city. Bowden's replacement, Dan O'Brien started the long process of rebuilding a farm system that had largely been poor on developing talent since Schott had bought the team. (Why pay people - scouts - to watch baseball games, right?) This was the beginning of the road to recovery, though O'Brien wouldn't be around to see it.

      Having felt burned by his (few, but costly) investments in the club, Lindner cashed out and veggie magnate Bob Castellini bought the team. Castellini had been a minority shareholder in the ownership group that had run the St. Louis Cardinals for the past 10 years (1996-2005), but was a Cincinnati native and wanted to duplicate that success in his hometown.

      Castellini brought in his own man, hiring Wayne Krivsky, the assistant GM (under Terry Ryan) in Minnesota. Here was a guy with a pedigree in a successful front office, building through the farm system to help a small market team overachieve. That was the narrative. Krivsky built on O'Brien's earlier work, even improving on it, but fanboy Castellini didn't trust the guy he hired just 6 months earlier when Marty Brennaman kept complaining that the Reds were a few bullpen arms shy of another World Series run. Sure, the 2006 Reds overachieved in the first half, but that wasn't their true talent level and Castellini demanded that Krivsky trade offense for pitching. The infamous deal with the Nationals (then run by former Reds GM Bowden) gutted the lineup and killed the team's momentum that year, with no positive results.

      That winter, Cardinals GM Walt Jocketty was fired because he was so adamantly opposed to considering new data-driven methods of looking at baseball ops. The Cardinals' owner saw "Moneyball" as a cost-effective way to maintain long-term success through the draft-and-development model and brought people in to modernize the team's baseball ops. Jocketty opposed the change and was given his walking papers.

      Castellini seized on the opportunity for his former GM to come work for him again (not bothering to question whether Jocketty's firing had substance behind it) and the writing was on the wall for Krivsky's job when Jocketty was hired as an "advisor" that winter. A slow start by an untalented team in April led to the dismissal of the Reds' best GM in 20 years. The Jocketty Era began.

      Jocketty added little to the team and the players that formed the nucleus of the 2010-2013 clubs were drafted, signed or traded for by Krivsky and O'Brien. Jocketty's biggest contribution was the signing of amateur Cuban Aroldis Chapman and the trade for Scott Rolen (which sent Edwin Encarnacion's bat to the American League). The only significant trades he made during the Reds' run was shipping half the farm system for Mat Latos and giving up Didi Gregorius and change to acquire Shin-Soo Choo for one year (whence he played CF for the first and only time).

      Jocketty gets all the credit for those teams when the lion's share properly belongs to his predecessors.

      After 2013, it was obvious that a rebuild was needed. Not a fire sale, but managed dismantling of the club and replacing with a new, younger nucleus of players. Jocketty appealed to Castellini to resist this urge and the two reinforced each other's natural inclination to blame the team's declining performance on anything but declining skills and expiring contracts. It was always injuries this and injuries that, even when that clearly wasn't the case. During these years, the Pirates and Cubs had joined the Cardinals as the class of the division and the Brewers began rebuilding in earnest a year or so later.

      All the while, Cincinnati refused to read the handwriting on the wall. Jocketty's mantra was "reload, not rebuild" and he almost universally refused to take advantage of opportunities to trade veterans when their trade value was highest - Alfredo Simon, Todd Frazier, Johnny Cueto, Mike Leake, Aroldis Chapman, Brandon Phillips. Worse, rather than seeking top talent in return, even if it was focused in fewer players who might be further away from the majors, Jocketty intentionally sought players closer to the majors and preferred quantity over quality. He inordinately focused on pitching, too, ignoring that the Reds' biggest problem was a lack of offense. It's one thing for a casual fan to not notice how GAB masks a mediocre offense because of the prevalence of home runs, but it's quite another thing for the front office to believe it.

      By mid-season 2014, the Reds should have been rebuilding in earnest. They tried to postpone it until after the 2015 season. Hosting the All-Star Game in 2015 was one excuse we heard, the kind of stupidly wasted opportunity that a GM should have been advising his owner the team can't afford to miss.

      Eugenio Suarez was the lone bright spot from the transactions that did occur and he was a throw-in on the (eventual) Simon trade with Detroit. The Reds' main target had been pitching prospect Jonathan Crawford. The Reds got lucky on that one.

      After 2015, Jocketty spent three seasons basically mentoring Dick Williams to replace him, taking on another "advisory" role, yet still - ultimately - in charge of baseball ops, even if ceding more day-to-day control.

      The team has slowly built an analytics department and began to join the "revolution", but they're one of the slower teams to do so and the results are obvious.

      Fast forward to last offseason after a couple years of the badly bungled rebuilding process yielding little to be excited about. The Reds made moves, some of them quite good, but they didn't do so with an eye towards the future - flipping Puig, Gray, etc. if they had nice rebound seasons. No, it was simply a case of "we're tired of not being relevant" and trying to make a show of "doing something". The idea that those moves plus the existing core would yield a team that might compete for a wild card spot was ridiculous on the face.

      That they doubled down on this at the trade deadline, picking up Trevor Bauer with an eye towards a late-season surge and/or a 2020 run, is further proof that the FO is out to lunch, as is yesterday's signing of Mike Moustakas for $16m/yr x 4 yrs. The Reds are like the little brother who wants to play with his big brother's friends, but isn't big enough and doesn't understand that.

      Their continued inability to accurately assess where they are in the success cycle of a team, and to plan and act accordingly, only serves to further delay a genuine rebuild and a meaningful run at contention.

      If it feels like more than the Reds have had in recent years, or more than the Bengals have given locals in some time, that may be the case, but all it adds up to is a crap sandwich on fancier bread. Some customers may say "that looks mighty tasty" because of the window dressing, but at the end of the day it's still a crap sandwich until you get someone who knows the difference between you-know-what and Shinola behind the deli counter.

      It's painful to watch.
      "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
      "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
      "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
      "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

      Comment


      • #4
        To be clear, if I was running the club, I would be looking for opportunities to trade Suarez and Gray this Winter Meeting. By trading Suarez, I'd be opening third for Nick Senzel (his natural position) or, down the road, for top prospect Jonathan India with Senzel playing second.

        We're stuck with Votto whose bat isn't as bad as it looked last year, but whose power is likely gone. Can't trade him for anything worthwhile and the jersey/ticket sales mean he's a Red for life (four years left).

        That leaves shortstop for the infield and I'd definitely be looking to upgrade, but I would have re-signed Jose Iglesias for another year. Given his relative success in Cincy, it's likely he'd have taken us up on it. Freddy Galvis is nobody's answer at SS and his bat won't compensate for it, either. I'd have bought out his option (big mistake there).

        Like Suarez, we could get a king's ransom from Gray also. In both cases, I would be maximizing the number of top 100 prospects I could acquire. Blue chippers only (and darkhorse guys we have our eyes on). I would have been sorely tempted to swap Aristedes Aquino for Luis Urias, trading from a strength (COF) to improve our MI defense. Urias has the high upside we want in a bat, too. Heck, if the Padres gave him up for Trent Grisham, they'd have taken Aquino instead.

        Winker is penciled in as the starter in LF while some combination of Schebler, Ervin and VanMeter will play in the other two outfield spots. I will NOT be pursuing Castellanos or Ozuna, both of whom are overrated and will be overpriced and neither of whom will get the Reds over-the-top.

        In trades, I am looking for opportunities to pick up top prospects. Maybe I can find a taker for the sideshow that is Michael Lorenzen who, in truth, is not that great of a relief pitcher? I'd love to find a sucker to take him on in exchange for someone of real value. Maybe in a package deal?

        Bauer and Iglesias would normally be traded, but I'm stuck taking them into 2020 and hoping their trade value increases in April and May, after which I would be quick to pull the trigger on flipping either. (DeSclafani, too, who will be a free agent after 2020.)

        I would be targeting free agents with good buy-low, sell-high potential. Guys like Aaron Sanchez, Taijuan Walker and Domingo Santana are perfect examples. I could take a flier on some of these and either get someone for a few years who will contribute to the team or who I could flip for more prospects down the road, depending on the likelihood of their long-term projection and our ability to retain them on cost-effective contracts.

        Meanwhile, I would be spending the tens of millions we'd otherwise spent on payroll shoring up institutional infrastructure - building scouting networks, overseas operations, modernizing our IT infrastructure, investing coaching, etc......anything to gain a competitive edge in scouting and player development. This would be repaid one hundredfold over the long term, making future success all the more likely.

        Knowing that the (stillborn) rebuild under Jocketty/Williams needed a reboot, I would be honest with fans, ask for their patience and work hard to produce results. I would not trade long-term promise for short-term eye candy just to be seen as "doing something". I would be doing what I could to get people to the ballpark anyway, marketing team history, working with baseball-related organizations and products to hold baseball-related promotions throughout the season.

        Perhaps we would give away a 1-year subscription to SABR to one random, lucky, fan every home game? Or one copy of the Strat-o-Matic Baseball tabletop game? Or even a copy of MLB The Show? What's that cost? In the scheme of things? Nothing.

        We would give free pairs of tickets to any child with a copy of their report card, who made the honor roll on certain days. (Not basing it on school attendance like the old Knothole program.) Perhaps we have a special "Meet a Red" day once a week or something.

        A scorecard with pencil would be included free with the price of a ticket, encouraging fans (particularly kids) to keep score while they watch. We would make video series, available on YouTube, explaining all sorts of things about baseball - from how to keep score, to explaining things like DFAs, the Rule 5 Draft and the balk rule.

        It doesn't take much effort (or money) for a MLB team to really amp up its customer service experience at all.

        The club should be doing stuff like this anyway, but all the more reason to give fans a (baseball related) reason to come out to the ballpark and to follow the team when the casual fan won't know too many of the players on a revolving roster for very long.

        Being honest and open with the fans is necessary if you're going to retain their goodwill during a "sorry the last rebuild didn't work, we need to start over" period.
        "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
        "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
        "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
        "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

        Comment


        • #5
          Well we're roughly a month away from Spring Training and the Reds have signed Mike Moustakas, Shogo Akiyama, Wade Miley and Tyler Thornburg, which is more activity than a typical Reds' offseason, but appears to be little more than a .500 season if everything goes well for them this year.

          Hope springs eternal that they might yet trade for Francisco Lindor, but the Reds haven't traded for a player of that caliber since 1978 so I'm not holding my breath.
          "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
          "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
          "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
          "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

          Comment


          • #6
            Hey Chadwick, great recent history recap!

            I thought in 2015, the Reds were still a very solid club and just needed the front office to get us some more bullpen help. Our opening day closer was 37-year old Kevin Gregg, who blew the save on opening day. (Frazier saved the day with a late HR)

            I'm more of a "keep the window open as long as possible" fan, than a "tear it down and rebuild" fan.

            In 2012, the Reds were serious WS contenders and just ran into some bad luck in the playoffs. By 2015, we still had much of the core and I thought if they put all their eggs in that season, they had a chance at another deep run.

            ----------

            As far as this offseason? NOT A FAN!

            I don't see a lot of hitters getting 4 year deals, and especially not 30 something corner IF (Moustakas) and poor-fielding OF with great "doubles" power (Castellanos).

            The Reds seemed to overpay for those 2 on offense when they probably should have concentrated on Catcher and more pitching.

            I still appreciate the fact that they are going for it. It sure beats watching the slow burn of a dumpster fire starting over the course of 6 months like the previous seasons (2016-2018).

            Oh, also Wade Miley was a terrible choice. We're signing a guy that was left off the Astros' World Series roster? He was the Astros' only legit LHP and they still felt he was not good enough to be among the pitchers they would use for the biggest games of the year. That speaks volumes.







            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Sabo-metrics View Post
              I thought in 2015....I'm more of a "keep the window open as long as possible" fan, than a "tear it down and rebuild" fan.
              I agree, but the Castellini wasn't willing to sport a payroll close to $150 million like he is now. The rotation of Cueto, Latos, Leake and Bailey was scheduled to disappear via free agency between 2014-2015 with Todd Frazier and Aroldis Chapman not far behind. I'm still amazed that, among all the pitchers on those winning teams, it was Homer Bailey who got the big extension (which has to rank among the worst ever for a pitcher).

              In 2012, the Reds were serious WS contenders and just ran into some bad luck in the playoffs. By 2015, we still had much of the core and I thought if they put all their eggs in that season, they had a chance at another deep run.
              I agree with your assessment of 2012, though I think it was overachieving on the Giants' part in a short series and Dusty Baker's inability to motivate his team to close out the series, not "bad luck". The core was still in place in 2015, true, but several players were already declining (e.g. Phillips) and, worse, some productive ones were leaving Cincinnati at season's end. It was obvious at the All-Star break in both 2014 and 2015 that the Reds were not going to be jockeying for a playoff spot that year (in each, separate case).

              The Reds didn't have to tear it all down immediately by any means, though they did need to begin moving pieces after 2013, when it was obvious they weren't even up to beating the Pirates. (Baker certainly merited his firing after the finish to that season.) That offseason, before Brandon Phillips' 5-and-10 rights kicked in, they were in talks with several teams and were too gun-shy about a Matt Kemp-for-Phillips deal because of the salary they'd have been taking on. That said, Kemp's bat would have been useful to a competitive Reds team in LF over the next few years and they could always have traded Kemp once his value was back up (for prospects). Another reported trade scenario at the time was the Reds taking on Andre Ethier's (lesser) contract - though Ethier had less still in the bat - along with Dee Gordon, whom the Dodgers had given up on, for Phillips. That was right before Gordon broke out with a couple of .300 seasons as a middle infielder. Much better asset than an aging defender whose bat was never as good as people (mis)remembered.

              Keeping Frazier after 2014 is fine and dandy, but keeping him after he won the 2015 Home Run Derby was ridiculous. That summer, the Astros were hot on the trail for both starting pitcher and relief pitching, but Reds GM Walt Jocketty refused to even communicate with Jeff Luhnow or other Astros' employees because he blamed Luhnow for the Cardinals and him parting ways 8 years earlier. (Jocketty wasn't willing to get on board the team's new direction, as dictated by owner Bill DeWitt Jr., while Luhnow, Jocketty's subordinate, was already a team player.) There's NO excuse for a GM refusing to deal with another GM on that basis. Absurdly childish and it cost the Reds (who wound up sending Cueto and Leake at the deadline for nothing of real value).

              The Aroldis Chapman trade was another fiasco. Just months after sending us four non-prospects for him, the Yankees traded Chapman for the top prospect in baseball. Imagine if Gleyber Torres had been a product of the Reds rebuild!

              I could go on, but you get the point. The Jocketty FO (with Williams as his understudy) postponed the rebuild, then targeted major-league ready players over talent, targeted pitching over talent, and targeted quantity over quality. Repeatedly. The one real gem from all the moves was Eugenio Suarez, but Suarez was the throw-in on that trade. Can people even name Jocketty's primary target from Detroit? And why the heck didn't Jocketty trade Alfredo Simon six months earlier, at the deadline? The Reds weren't competitive and any FO worth its salt knew Simon's W-L record was a fluke, fashioned from the best two months of his career happening that spring, and a fair amount of offense (and some luck). Detroit was under-the-gun to continue playing for a World Series before their owner kicked the bucket and the Reds had a golden opportunity when Detroit approached them in July of that season. No, Jocketty held onto Simon and then traded him in the offseason - he was lucky Detroit still wanted him at that point. Don't get me wrong: luck counts. I mean, at the end of the day, Jocketty aquired Suarez and he deserves credit for that, but (hard as it is to believe), it might have been better. Maybe we get Corey Knebel with him that summer? Maybe Devon Travis? Maybe Robbie Ray or Chad Green or Nick Castellanos or Domingo Leyba?

              You get the point.

              The guy who tries to put off a rebuild is generally not the best guy to actually execute the rebuild.

              As far as this offseason? NOT A FAN!

              I don't see a lot of hitters getting 4 year deals, and especially not 30 something corner IF (Moustakas) and poor-fielding OF with great "doubles" power (Castellanos).

              The Reds seemed to overpay for those 2 on offense when they probably should have concentrated on Catcher and more pitching.
              Damn skippy. Keith Law just published a column about this very thing earlier this week. The Reds were 12th in OBP in the NL last year and the additions of Galvis, Moose and Castellanos will not get that up much. Keep in mind that we've likely seen the last All-Star-worthy performance by Votto and that only Senzel and Winker have age/talent-related upside in their bats. (I don't see Ervin or Aristides as "legit" prospects.)

              I still appreciate the fact that they are going for it. It sure beats watching the slow burn of a dumpster fire starting over the course of 6 months like the previous seasons (2016-2018).
              This is my father's point of view, too. I'd say that "I agree" about them going for it, but I just can't get excited. The rebuild wasn't finished (not remotely) because they butchered it. Let's say that the team needs a 90-win season to reach the wild card, a 95-win season to win the division, okay? The moves Cincinnati has made (so far) this winter might get them to 85 wins, in a best-case scenario, where they'll battle Milwaukee (who has more top-end talent) for 3rd in the division. Anyone really think the Central will produce one wild card this year, much less two?

              I don't mind watching a rebuild if the people conducting it have a vision for it, are executing that vision, and are communicating it to the fans. Personally, I would be far happier watching Nick Senzel, Jesse Winker, Nick Lodolo, Hunter Greene, Jonathan India, Taylor Trammell (who is now gone), etc. play their way into starting jobs. I would be far happier watching the offseason moves acquire either more top-end talent for the pipeline or buy-low candidates who might be traded after a hot start for something of long-term usefulness.

              Of course, Williams (like his mentor Jocketty) never believed in the rebuild, insisting on calling it a "reload" to the press, and while Williams is at least somewhat friendlier to analytics, he only has his job because he's the son/nephew of minority owners and spent a decade as Jocketty's right-hand "yes" man in the organization. Let's be honest, no other franchise in the game would hire Dick Williams to run their baseball operations department.

              Yes, the rebuilding gets old, but that's because the men in charge of it weren't committed to it and weren't capable of executing it effectively. Imagine if Senzel and Gleyber Torres were the left side of our infield this year! Better yet, imagine if last winter, we'd traded Suarez to San Diego, who were hot-to-trot for the guy with the golden contract, and Cincinnati had signed Manny Machado? ("See Manny, look at our burgeoning farm system. Imagine yourself as the clubhouse leader of this nucleus of All-Star talent we're building around!") Heck...that's the exact sales pitch that the Pads gave him. We could have Manny at 3B, Torres at SS and Senzel at 2B. We'd have the best infield in the league, with three-quarters of it not yet 27 years old. Additionally, we might have a Chris Paddack or Joey Lucchessi or Adrian Morejon in our rotation and a Franmil Reyes or Hunter Renfroe slugging from a corner outfield. As for Manny's $30 million, I'd rather have him at that price than the combined salaries of Castellanos and Moustakas.

              It's hard to be certain about "what ifs", but these aren't unreasonable alternatives I've suggested. The point being that the Reds FO has done a poor job at every step of the way.

              More to the point, you don't end a rebuild by just deciding to do so at a given point in time, which is all I've read for the past two years. The Reds, apparently, just "decided" that it was time to compete - stories have appeared repeatedly that the organization was "tired" of last-place finishes. I interpret "organization" in these stories to mean Bob Castellini, who has always been impatient for the team to win (largely to the team's detriment, no less). You end the rebuild because the rebuild has been successful and your labor is now coming to fruition. That's hardly the case for Cincinnati. They just woke up one day and said "let's switch course". Terrible, terrible management.

              Oh, also Wade Miley was a terrible choice. We're signing a guy that was left off the Astros' World Series roster? He was the Astros' only legit LHP and they still felt he was not good enough to be among the pitchers they would use for the biggest games of the year. That speaks volumes.
              I completely agree, though Law pointed out that Miley (who is the new 5th starter in the rotation) will likely be the only newly acquired player whose 2020 production represents a substantive improvement over the guy he's replacing. That speaks volumes.

              At the end of the day, this winter (like last) is "much ado about nothing". While I'm incredulous hearing people in the national press speculate that Cincy is a "dark horse" to reach the playoffs and a growing favorite as a team that's "doing it right". Of course, that's largely Harold Reynolds, who is generally on the wrong side of most baseball questions.

              Heck, why not let him run the Reds? It's hard to believe he could be worse.
              "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
              "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
              "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
              "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

              Comment


              • #8
                Silver lining - I guess - is that the Reds are now in a position with too many extra parts and while I don't want to see Senzel or Winker traded, the Reds have made their decision and have to live with it. If they could convert top prospects/spare parts into a trade for two years of Francisco Lindor then (a) Reds fans would get SUPER excited about this season, spending on tickets and merchandise over-and-above, and (b) the Reds could arguably win the division this year (particularly if Kris Bryant is traded and the Cardinals do NOT land Arenado). In fact, I think they're practically forced to make a Lindor trade happen. To borrow from a certain turn-of-phrase, you can't be a little bit pregnant. The Reds can't compete "a little" like last year. You're either in it for this October or you'd better be playing for "next" year. Half-measures lead to the worst results.

                At the end of the day, I think the Reds will fail to reach the playoffs for the remainder of Votto's career. At least, fail to do so consistently or to go deep in them. In a 5-team league, they still have the worst front office, by steeper margin than they did a year ago (thanks to Ben Cherington's hire in Pittsburgh). These players will continue to cost a lot and only get older. I can't see Castellini authorizing another $20 million increase in payroll next year, and $15 more the year after that, for example. Once again, the Reds have sought mediocrity and they've succeeded in reaching their target. I can't see the results on the field being vastly superior than the talent on the field.

                So the end result will be that the team will engage on a new rebuild, whether after 2020 or after 2022 or 2024. Dick Williams will be let go and a new GM hired to conduct that rebuild (or, at least, he should be). The Reds are doomed to just wait it out between today and that point, consoled only by the final, declining seasons of the greatest first baseman in team history.

                I wish there was a Fast Forward button so I could skip the boring part.
                "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
                "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
                "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny
                "There's no such thing as a perfect ballot." -- Jay Jaffe

                Comment

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