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Minaya gone mad?

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  • gbdmets
    replied
    Mets fans always overrate their prospects.

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  • moebarguy
    replied
    Originally posted by ericg7
    I agree but that blame goes to New York fans in general. We are not loyal to anyone individual. We're loyal to the team. Players come and go, get cheered and booed. Add that to the fact that we're considered knowledgable fans and demand that our players perform at a high level, its tough for these guys to come to NYC and think they're going to earn an easy paycheck. As long as we are who we are, the franchise execs will overpay to get the "best" players and they'll choke from the pressure we put on them. Very few players stood the test of time in NYC.
    We don't nec. get the "best" players, but whichever players we do get, we do overpay.

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  • ericg7
    replied
    Originally posted by Joltin Joe Giradio
    The Braves aren't afraid to let their young'uns play when the alternative is to overpay for veterans or as Steve Phillips used to call them, "proven players." Part of it is because ATL doesn't have the money, and part of it is because ATL is smart. When you overpay and commit big $$$ and contract years to veterans, the best you can do is get fair value. If the player has a bad or injury-laden year or two, or if he simply declines, then the contract becomes god awful, and no one will take the deadweight off your hands. On the other hand, when you go with cheap young players, the worst case scenario is they suck, in which case you can just ship them back to the minors or bench them. A young player sucking will not hurt your team longterm, but a big, long, and bad contract will.

    For whatever reason, this Met organization is unwilling to just let the young players play. They want the "proven" players, but every single proven player was unproven at one point. If David Wright didn't become so great so fast, let's say he only hit .245 when he came up in 2004, you can bet he would have been traded by now. After this many years of getting butt-raped by ATL, one would think perhaps the Met front office would learn something from the enemy's superiority, but nope. Same old morons.
    I agree but that blame goes to New York fans in general. We are not loyal to anyone individual. We're loyal to the team. Players come and go, get cheered and booed. Add that to the fact that we're considered knowledgable fans and demand that our players perform at a high level, its tough for these guys to come to NYC and think they're going to earn an easy paycheck. As long as we are who we are, the franchise execs will overpay to get the "best" players and they'll choke from the pressure we put on them. Very few players stood the test of time in NYC.

    Leave a comment:


  • Joltin Joe Giradio
    replied
    The Braves aren't afraid to let their young'uns play when the alternative is to overpay for veterans or as Steve Phillips used to call them, "proven players." Part of it is because ATL doesn't have the money, and part of it is because ATL is smart. When you overpay and commit big $$$ and contract years to veterans, the best you can do is get fair value. If the player has a bad or injury-laden year or two, or if he simply declines, then the contract becomes god awful, and no one will take the deadweight off your hands. On the other hand, when you go with cheap young players, the worst case scenario is they suck, in which case you can just ship them back to the minors or bench them. A young player sucking will not hurt your team longterm, but a big, long, and bad contract will.

    For whatever reason, this Met organization is unwilling to just let the young players play. They want the "proven" players, but every single proven player was unproven at one point. If David Wright didn't become so great so fast, let's say he only hit .245 when he came up in 2004, you can bet he would have been traded by now. After this many years of getting butt-raped by ATL, one would think perhaps the Met front office would learn something from the enemy's superiority, but nope. Same old morons.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr. Met
    replied
    I certainly don't think Omar has attained genius status by any of his moves. However, I would say the Mets are almost certainly in the 90 win range. A couple key injuries could change that but the rest of the division is weaker while the Mets are stronger.

    All that being said, the Braves will turn up a couple of guys we've never heard of and win the division by 2 games. h

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  • Joltin Joe Giradio
    replied
    Originally posted by ericg7

    And about the Mets roster looking good on paper but being very thin. That's becoming a cliche. That same thing can be said for various teams year in and year out. This year they are expected to be contenders, if they don't make the playoffs then it will be a disappointing season.

    WikiJock.com
    The other teams that may also be thin don't have 100 million dollar payrolls.

    The key to being a good GM is to know when to spend and whom to spend the money on. All Minaya has done so far is shown that he is not afraid to overpay. For the right players, like Beltran, it is not a problem when you are a big market team like NYM, but shelling out the dough for older guys like Pedro and Wagner is very risky.

    Right now, after Beltran had a rough year and Pedro had a good year, my last sentence may look stupid, but give it a few years.

    For all the money that he has spent now, this team still has a lot of holes. I understand that it's definitely not all Omar's fault. E.g., he didn't sign Floyd, he didn't sign Glavine, he didn't trade for Benson, he didn't trade Kazmir for Zambrano. I understand that he is probably also under pressure to win now given the launching of the new network (which is why I said the stupidity starts from the top). I also understand that IF every one of the big players have a big year, this will be a very strong team, but given the age, the above average injury risk, the below average overall defense coupled with a non-strikeout starting 5 save Pedro, and the thin roster including the high Minors, can anyone really say that you can automatically mark this team down for 90 wins?

    Like I said earlier in this thread, the team better win the WS in the next few years.

    Knowing that he's the same guy who made that Colon trade a few years ago doesn't make me confident about what he'll do with Milledge, the last top prospect in the organization.

    If we had a good GM at the helm who could build a team that can win for many years, and the Wilpons would stay the hell out of baseball decisions, this team would have unseated the Braves many years ago. It is simply embarrassing and unforgivable how the Braves continue to outclass, outsmart, and outplay this org. even though the Braves continue to be unable to keep player after player.

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  • chiefpaddy
    replied
    Last years Mets were alot more fun and exciting to watch then in the last few years. Lets see what happens this season before we write off Minaya as an idiot. These days very few teams are built totally on home grown talent. That the Mets have Reyes and Wright is a great accomplishment. That they have young talent to trade is another plus. As long as they continue to draft properly they will continue to have a good minor league system.

    Leave a comment:


  • PHENIA FILMS
    replied
    Originally posted by TonyStarks
    I am an Omar Minaya fan, but am not a fan of the Mets.

    I'm wondering, how are you Mets fans taking to his gutting your Farm for aging Vets?

    He's sold off just about every one of your Top Prospects with the exception of Lastings and now I'm reading about Rumors to trade him to get Javy!

    I cannot give Omar too much praise for the work he's going, because had Duquette been given as much room to operate he'd have done the same.

    Selling your teams future for a 'Win now" approach can be dangerous.
    That all or nothing is a big gamble and you could wind up like the O's when Angelous tried to win it all by getting Belle, Surhoff, Alomar, and filling the roster with plenty of FA's. They are still feeling those affects.

    PS:
    Who's 'buying' a Championship now? Well we all know the Braves are the Mets 400lb Gorilla...but is this the year you finally unseat the Braves from 1st place?

    look whos talking....
    what ever happened to the famous farm system of the YANKEES...im suprised they havent traded CANOE for JULIO FRANCO.... METS SELLING FUTURE?
    typical YANKEE fan (post 1996) question:noidea

    Leave a comment:


  • ericg7
    replied
    Originally posted by Joltin Joe Giradio
    Minaya is a bad GM, the Wilpons may be worse owners (in terms of baseball savvy).

    This current Met roster looks good on paper because of all the big names, but it's a very thin team. If a small number of key players go down with injuries (Pedro and Wagner, and to a lesser extent, Floyd). The season will get ugly real fast, and there's no farm system to speak of that can help.
    Minaya hasn't proven to be a bad GM. The only real disappointment last season was Carlos Beltran who should improve with Delgado in the lineup. The Mets were thought by many, including myself, to be a .500 team and they were exactly that.

    And about the Mets roster looking good on paper but being very thin. That's becoming a cliche. That same thing can be said for various teams year in and year out. This year they are expected to be contenders, if they don't make the playoffs then it will be a disappointing season.

    WikiJock.com

    Leave a comment:


  • KCGHOST
    replied
    You know, lost in all this invective, is Steve Phillips is now on ESPN explaining to us what boobs the other GM's are.

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  • Joltin Joe Giradio
    replied
    I think it's safe to sum up the state of the affair of the Mets by saying that the stupidity starts top down. Morons hire morons who make bad decisions.

    Minaya is a bad GM, the Wilpons may be worse owners (in terms of baseball savvy).

    This current Met roster looks good on paper because of all the big names, but it's a very thin team. If a small number of key players go down with injuries (Pedro and Wagner, and to a lesser extent, Floyd). The season will get ugly real fast, and there's no farm system to speak of that can help.

    Leave a comment:


  • KingJ
    replied
    Minaya gutted our farm, too. I guess he thought Bartolo Colon for half a season was worth more than then-prospects Cliff Lee, Grady Sizemore, Jason Bay, and Chris Young.

    In a few years, expect to see all the Mets minor league teams to be last in their respective divisions.
    Last edited by KingJ; 12-10-2005, 05:49 PM.

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  • moebarguy
    replied
    I guess it was an overstatement to say that he destroyed the team, but he also traded Dykstra, Mitchell, McDowell, and Backman...

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  • Mr. Met
    replied
    The destruction of the 80's Mets began with the Lenny Dykstra trade which was pretty much a Davey Johnson move.

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  • GIANT
    replied
    How did Cashen destroy the 86 team? The Mets were contenders in 1987. They lost out to the Cardinals in September. In 1988, The Mets won the Division and lost to the Dodgers in the playoffs. MacIllvaine left and went to San Diego. He was rehired and than fired by Fred Wilpon in the midst of rebuilding the mess left by Al Harazin. Wilpon alleged he wanted a high profile General Manager so he than hired Steve Phillips. Bobby Valentine the manager hired by MacIllvaine was allowed to remain manager under Phillips. Wilpon later fired Valentine (a huge mistake) but not Phillips. Typical of Wilpon who later allowed Steve Phillips a "lame duck" G. M. to convince him to hire Art Howe as manager despite the fact Wilpon would not extend Phillips' contract. Without Cashen and MacIllvaine the Mets win nothing in the eighties.

    Leave a comment:

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