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The Baseball Maverick (Who Revolutionized Baseball and Revived the Mets)™

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Mongoose View Post

    If you're going to keep repeating the lie the Mets organization conjured up as their excuse for letting Turner go, at least get it right. They never criticized Turner's overall preparation, they said he was jaking it out of the batter's box on grounders.

    Turner started working with Marlon Byrd on attacking the ball during 2013. Turner's batted ball numbers from 2013 were almost exactly the same as during his breakout season of 2014:

    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx...=3B#battedball

    The only difference offensively between 2013 Mets Turner and 2014 Dodgers Turner was BABIP, or luck. If he suddenly started working harder between 2013 and 2014 he must be very disappointed, because there wasn't any actual improvement. In real terms he was as good with the Mets as he was with the Dodgers.

    The data was there. So why did the Maverick ignore it? Either he was jaking it and needed a good boot in the ass, or he's just not a very bright fellow, which is a prerequisite for being a good GM.
    I have cited several articles in the past about his training pre and post boot in the ass.

    I am not repeating a lie - I am looking at facts. The guy posted a .696 OPS with the Mets. They let him go. He became a good hitter. All Facts. He did a ton of work with Byrd

    I do not begrudge Turner his success nor am I upset that it didn't happen with the Mets. It is now 4 years since he was a Met. I also do not begrudge the Mets for letting him go.

    Murphy is much more of a case if someone wants to get upset about a player moving. Turner....not so much.

    Here is yet again an excerpt:

    Byrd shared with Turner how he had torn down and rebuilt his swing working with Latta over the previous year, making use of the down time during his suspension. The two would spend the next winter working together at The Ballyard, Latta's cage, with Turner driving from North Hollywood and Byrd from Malibu, and Turner's approach to hitting was transformed.

    "It wasn't something that just happened overnight,'' Turner said before a game at Wrigley Field. "We did it five days a week for four months, trying to fix [my swing] and get to where I can repeat it. Went to Spring [Training], had success. Throughout all last year, from that base we established, we made adjustments on the fly within the parameters of the philosophies we had, and started having success.''

    Before working with Byrd and Latta, Turner had played in 318 Major League games, with his versatility as a fielder and success as a pinch-hitter his calling cards. He hit .260 with a .685 OPS and a home run every 105 at-bats on average.


    The winter they speak of is the winter POST the Maverick kicking him in the ass. So I guess the Mets were supposed to keep Turner around because he showed an improvement the last couple of months of 2013......an improvement from sucking. Say what you like but a lifetime .685 OPS sucks.

    He met Byrd in 2013 while he was horrendous and did show improvement - but again improvement from sucking. He was let go...it happens.

    Here is another excerpt from Fangraphs

    Turner spent the season talking to Byrd — “his ideas fit really well with what I was trying to do and where I was trying to get to” — but the grind of the season didn’t provide enough time to practice and really implement those changes. “That offseason, even after the Mets let me go, I was hitting five days a week with Marlon,” Turner said.


    The season he speaks of is 2013 - he didn't have enough time to practice those changes because of the grind of the season. AWESOME. No time. I get its harder during the season but cmon. The changes would have affected what during the season? Him sucking?

    Mets let him go and he hit five days a week. Suddenly after the boot in the ass Turner had time. Funny how that happens.


    There are other articles which site how the off season of 2013-2014 was where it happened for Turner. He doesn't even look like the same hitter. His style is completely revamped.

    Good for him -- glad he worked 5 days a week -- maybe he should have worked 5 days a week in 2008 he would still be an Oriole.
    Last edited by Paulypal; 07-11-2017, 01:27 PM.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Paulypal View Post

      I have cited several articles in the past about his training pre and post boot in the ass.

      I am not repeating a lie - I am looking at facts. The guy posted a .696 OPS with the Mets. They let him go. He became a good hitter. All Facts. He did a ton of work with Byrd

      I do not begrudge Turner his success nor am I upset that it didn't happen with the Mets. It is now 4 years since he was a Met. I also do not begrudge the Mets for letting him go.

      Murphy is much more of a case if someone wants to get upset about a player moving. Turner....not so much.

      Here is yet again an excerpt:

      Byrd shared with Turner how he had torn down and rebuilt his swing working with Latta over the previous year, making use of the down time during his suspension. The two would spend the next winter working together at The Ballyard, Latta's cage, with Turner driving from North Hollywood and Byrd from Malibu, and Turner's approach to hitting was transformed.

      "It wasn't something that just happened overnight,'' Turner said before a game at Wrigley Field. "We did it five days a week for four months, trying to fix [my swing] and get to where I can repeat it. Went to Spring [Training], had success. Throughout all last year, from that base we established, we made adjustments on the fly within the parameters of the philosophies we had, and started having success.''

      Before working with Byrd and Latta, Turner had played in 318 Major League games, with his versatility as a fielder and success as a pinch-hitter his calling cards. He hit .260 with a .685 OPS and a home run every 105 at-bats on average.


      The winter they speak of is the winter POST the Maverick kicking him in the ass. So I guess the Mets were supposed to keep Turner around because he showed an improvement the last couple of months of 2013......an improvement from sucking. Say what you like but a lifetime .685 OPS sucks.

      He met Byrd in 2013 while he was horrendous and did show improvement - but again improvement from sucking. He was let go...it happens.

      Here is another excerpt from Fangraphs

      Turner spent the season talking to Byrd — “his ideas fit really well with what I was trying to do and where I was trying to get to” — but the grind of the season didn’t provide enough time to practice and really implement those changes. “That offseason, even after the Mets let me go, I was hitting five days a week with Marlon,” Turner said.


      The season he speaks of is 2013 - he didn't have enough time to practice those changes because of the grind of the season. AWESOME. No time. I get its harder during the season but cmon. The changes would have affected what during the season? Him sucking?

      Mets let him go and he hit five days a week. Suddenly after the boot in the ass Turner had time. Funny how that happens.


      There are other articles which site how the off season of 2013-2014 was where it happened for Turner. He doesn't even look like the same hitter. His style is completely revamped.

      Good for him -- glad he worked 5 days a week -- maybe he should have worked 5 days a week in 2008 he would still be an Oriole.
      Turner never "sucked". He, at worst, was a league average bat who could play 6 positions capably. He always had doubles pop and was a good pinch hitter. As a 7th round draft pick, he was an overachiever just to stick in the Majors as a league average player. He still wasn't satisfied.

      He embarked on a journey to remake his swing outside the standard regimen of MLB practice, game play and travel. Things began to click for him in August 2013. From August 9th until the end of the season he slashed .301/.326/.470. I'm sure he did more work the following off-season but the numbers indicate the results were already there while he was still a Met. The batted ball numbers were certainly there for all to see.

      So why didn't the guy who Revolutionized Baseball notice Turner had improved his batted ball numbers markedly? Was he too busy collaborating on the Baseball Maverick book to be bothered? Or maybe it's beneath his dignity to notice a role player's performance?


      "The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Mongoose View Post

        Turner never "sucked". He, at worst, was a league average bat who could play 6 positions capably. He always had doubles pop and was a good pinch hitter. As a 7th round draft pick, he was an overachiever just to stick in the Majors as a league average player. He still wasn't satisfied.

        He embarked on a journey to remake his swing outside the standard regimen of MLB practice, game play and travel. Things began to click for him in August 2013. From August 9th until the end of the season he slashed .301/.326/.470. I'm sure he did more work the following off-season but the numbers indicate the results were already there while he was still a Met. The batted ball numbers were certainly there for all to see.

        So why didn't the guy who Revolutionized Baseball notice Turner had improved his batted ball numbers markedly? Was he too busy collaborating on the Baseball Maverick book to be bothered? Or maybe it's beneath his dignity to notice a role player's performance?
        I cant answer that question at all. I do know that Turner wasn't very good and just because he hit .301 for the last month and a half of the season doesn't mean anything.

        The fact remains he wasn't a good Met - he was released and then made himself a very good hitter. You make it sound like he was the player he is now and the Mets let him walk. Not the case.

        I don't blame either side - stuff happens.

        Comment


        • #34
          As we know, the self-proclaimed "Baseball Maverick" and "Revolutionizer of Baseball" pushed the two top hitters in the NL out the door. Usually the feature articles seem to focus on Murphy, and his regularly scheduled demolitions of the Mets during the season. This time it's about Turner and the forum is the New York Times:

          https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/06/s...av=bottom-well

          For Dodgers Star Justin Turner, the Mets’ Rejection Still Motivates
          By DAVID WALDSTEIN AUG. 6, 2017



          There are telephone calls that stick in the mind forever, critical conversations at pivotal moments in life. For Justin Turner, one of those calls came as he was getting into his car at his Los Angeles home on Dec. 2, 2013.

          As a key member of the players’ association, Turner was about to drive with Kourtney Elizabeth, who is now his fiancée, to San Diego for a union meeting, where he would represent his fellow
          Mets players. Then his cellphone rang. It was Sandy Alderson, the team’s general manager, informing Turner that he was being let go.

          In an instant, Turner’s world was rocked. He had had a productive year as a utility player in 2013, batting .280, and he had just begun to make changes to his swing that would bring huge dividends in the years to come. But he said that Alderson informed him on the phone call that the Mets needed roster space and would not tender him a contract for 2014, even though he had made barely more than $500,000 in 2013 and was not about to become an expensive item on the team payroll.

          As Turner sank into the car, his career appeared to be crumbling.

          “I still went down there to San Diego and was still a part of the meetings, because it’s all stuff that I care about,” Turner said at Citi Field on Friday as his
          Los Angeles Dodgers team, now the best in the major leagues, began a weekend series against a Mets club going nowhere. “But it was a weird, empty feeling being down there and not having a team. That off-season, I was trying to find a place to play, trying to get a job. It was a rough process.”

          The rest of the story is well known, and not one of the highlights of the Mets’ many personnel decisions since Alderson took over as general manager for the 2011 season.

          At the time the Mets released him, Turner was deep into the process of restructuring his swing path and approach at the plate so he could pull the ball more and hit it in the air more frequently. Turner had started tinkering with his swing at the end of that 2013 season, batting .357 in September along with his only two home runs that year, and he then spent five days a week in the batting cage from October through November before Alderson’s call.

          But it was the Dodgers, not the Mets, who would become the beneficiaries of those alterations, a turn of events that looks worse for the Mets as each year goes by.
          It was Los Angeles that signed Turner right before spring training in 2014 — he made all of $1 million that season — and he has perhaps been their most productive hitter ever since, compiling a slash line of .306/.380/.503 with 63 home runs and 101 doubles through Sunday’s victory over the Mets. He has played in the postseason each year since joining the Dodgers, with a formidable .357 average.

          Turner, who is 32 and in the first season of a four-year, $64 million deal, also earned his first All-Star Game appearance last month and seems worthy of votes for the National League’s Most Valuable Player Award. He was also leading the National League with a 349 batting average while hitting third for a team on pace to win well over 100 games.

          And the player behind him in the N.L. batting race is none other than Daniel Murphy, who is batting .335. It was Murphy, of course, whom the Mets let walk after the 2015 season even though he had propelled them to the World Series with a record-setting barrage of home runs.

          In some alternate universe, perhaps Murphy would still be playing second base for the Mets, with Turner, with his long red hair and beard, at third and the Mets pounding other teams into submission. But that never happened.

          And while Murphy was let go in part for financial reasons — he ended up getting a three-year, $37.5 million contract from the Washington Nationals — the Mets never publicly elaborated what drove them to part ways with Turner.

          At the time, Alderson said no one should assume it was about money, and Turner, after all, was not making a whole lot. But there were rumors that the Mets thought Turner did not hustle enough, a notion that baffled and angered him. When asked on Friday about Turner, Alderson said he preferred not to discuss former players, but he did text, “I am very happy for his success.”

          In any case, the deflating 2013 phone call from Alderson was not the first time that Turner felt overlooked and underappreciated by the Mets. An earlier moment actually involved a call that never came his way.

          In that instance, in 2010, Turner capped a strong minor league season for the Mets with an outlandish final day. Playing for Class AAA Buffalo, he hit his only triple of the year in the eighth inning as part of a 6-for-6 performance. It was the first time a Buffalo Bison had registered six hits in a game since 1936.

          Turner said that game held a “ton of significance” for him to this day because when it then came time for the annual September promotions to the Mets, he never got the call he was hoping for. He had been waived by the Baltimore Orioles earlier that summer and then scooped up by the Mets, whose general manager then was Omar Minaya.

          And the Mets had then sent him to Buffalo, where all he did was hit .333 with 11 home runs and 22 doubles in 78 games — and go 6 for 6.

          “I felt bad about that,” Minaya said when asked why Turner did not receive a promotion to the Mets at that point. “The guy went 6 for 6 on the last day, but the decision had already been made. I loved Justin, but we just had too many guys already.”

          Turner remembers feeling devastated.

          “That is something that will always stick with me for the rest of my life,” he said. Still, he also wonders if every disappointment that came before he signed with the Dodgers essentially helped him reach his current level of success.

          “I might be out of the game now,” he said. “To go through what I went through here in New York made me a better player, a better person and a better leader in the clubhouse.”

          Although his home run pace this season is down from a career-high 27 last year, Turner’s on-base percentage was .443 through Sunday, and he had only 36 strikeouts. It is why Dodgers Manager Dave Roberts delights in batting Turner third for his juggernaut.

          “He’s a grinder and he’s blue-collar,” Roberts said. “He’s the glue of our ball club. For me, there is a certain mentality and a focus you have to have each day, and that is what Justin has. When you put him alongside a Chase Utley and a Clayton Kershaw, you’ve got a very stable core.”

          The Mets, meanwhile, are simply left with regrets.




          I read the Maverick's not going anywhere after his contract runs out. Fred Wilpon plans on retaining him. In that sense the Mets have a very stable core, too.


          "The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Mongoose View Post
            As we know, the self-proclaimed "Baseball Maverick" and "Revolutionizer of Baseball" pushed the two top hitters in the NL out the door. Usually the feature articles seem to focus on Murphy, and his regularly scheduled demolitions of the Mets during the season. This time it's about Turner and the forum is the New York Times:

            https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/06/s...av=bottom-well

            For Dodgers Star Justin Turner, the Mets’ Rejection Still Motivates
            By DAVID WALDSTEIN AUG. 6, 2017




            There are telephone calls that stick in the mind forever, critical conversations at pivotal moments in life. For Justin Turner, one of those calls came as he was getting into his car at his Los Angeles home on Dec. 2, 2013.

            As a key member of the players’ association, Turner was about to drive with Kourtney Elizabeth, who is now his fiancée, to San Diego for a union meeting, where he would represent his fellow
            Mets players. Then his cellphone rang. It was Sandy Alderson, the team’s general manager, informing Turner that he was being let go.

            In an instant, Turner’s world was rocked. He had had a productive year as a utility player in 2013, batting .280, and he had just begun to make changes to his swing that would bring huge dividends in the years to come. But he said that Alderson informed him on the phone call that the Mets needed roster space and would not tender him a contract for 2014, even though he had made barely more than $500,000 in 2013 and was not about to become an expensive item on the team payroll.

            As Turner sank into the car, his career appeared to be crumbling.

            “I still went down there to San Diego and was still a part of the meetings, because it’s all stuff that I care about,” Turner said at Citi Field on Friday as his
            Los Angeles Dodgers team, now the best in the major leagues, began a weekend series against a Mets club going nowhere. “But it was a weird, empty feeling being down there and not having a team. That off-season, I was trying to find a place to play, trying to get a job. It was a rough process.”

            The rest of the story is well known, and not one of the highlights of the Mets’ many personnel decisions since Alderson took over as general manager for the 2011 season.

            At the time the Mets released him, Turner was deep into the process of restructuring his swing path and approach at the plate so he could pull the ball more and hit it in the air more frequently. Turner had started tinkering with his swing at the end of that 2013 season, batting .357 in September along with his only two home runs that year, and he then spent five days a week in the batting cage from October through November before Alderson’s call.

            But it was the Dodgers, not the Mets, who would become the beneficiaries of those alterations, a turn of events that looks worse for the Mets as each year goes by.
            It was Los Angeles that signed Turner right before spring training in 2014 — he made all of $1 million that season — and he has perhaps been their most productive hitter ever since, compiling a slash line of .306/.380/.503 with 63 home runs and 101 doubles through Sunday’s victory over the Mets. He has played in the postseason each year since joining the Dodgers, with a formidable .357 average.

            Turner, who is 32 and in the first season of a four-year, $64 million deal, also earned his first All-Star Game appearance last month and seems worthy of votes for the National League’s Most Valuable Player Award. He was also leading the National League with a 349 batting average while hitting third for a team on pace to win well over 100 games.

            And the player behind him in the N.L. batting race is none other than Daniel Murphy, who is batting .335. It was Murphy, of course, whom the Mets let walk after the 2015 season even though he had propelled them to the World Series with a record-setting barrage of home runs.

            In some alternate universe, perhaps Murphy would still be playing second base for the Mets, with Turner, with his long red hair and beard, at third and the Mets pounding other teams into submission. But that never happened.

            And while Murphy was let go in part for financial reasons — he ended up getting a three-year, $37.5 million contract from the Washington Nationals — the Mets never publicly elaborated what drove them to part ways with Turner.

            At the time, Alderson said no one should assume it was about money, and Turner, after all, was not making a whole lot. But there were rumors that the Mets thought Turner did not hustle enough, a notion that baffled and angered him. When asked on Friday about Turner, Alderson said he preferred not to discuss former players, but he did text, “I am very happy for his success.”

            In any case, the deflating 2013 phone call from Alderson was not the first time that Turner felt overlooked and underappreciated by the Mets. An earlier moment actually involved a call that never came his way.

            In that instance, in 2010, Turner capped a strong minor league season for the Mets with an outlandish final day. Playing for Class AAA Buffalo, he hit his only triple of the year in the eighth inning as part of a 6-for-6 performance. It was the first time a Buffalo Bison had registered six hits in a game since 1936.

            Turner said that game held a “ton of significance” for him to this day because when it then came time for the annual September promotions to the Mets, he never got the call he was hoping for. He had been waived by the Baltimore Orioles earlier that summer and then scooped up by the Mets, whose general manager then was Omar Minaya.

            And the Mets had then sent him to Buffalo, where all he did was hit .333 with 11 home runs and 22 doubles in 78 games — and go 6 for 6.

            “I felt bad about that,” Minaya said when asked why Turner did not receive a promotion to the Mets at that point. “The guy went 6 for 6 on the last day, but the decision had already been made. I loved Justin, but we just had too many guys already.”

            Turner remembers feeling devastated.

            “That is something that will always stick with me for the rest of my life,” he said. Still, he also wonders if every disappointment that came before he signed with the Dodgers essentially helped him reach his current level of success.

            “I might be out of the game now,” he said. “To go through what I went through here in New York made me a better player, a better person and a better leader in the clubhouse.”

            Although his home run pace this season is down from a career-high 27 last year, Turner’s on-base percentage was .443 through Sunday, and he had only 36 strikeouts. It is why Dodgers Manager Dave Roberts delights in batting Turner third for his juggernaut.

            “He’s a grinder and he’s blue-collar,” Roberts said. “He’s the glue of our ball club. For me, there is a certain mentality and a focus you have to have each day, and that is what Justin has. When you put him alongside a Chase Utley and a Clayton Kershaw, you’ve got a very stable core.”

            The Mets, meanwhile, are simply left with regrets.




            I read the Maverick's not going anywhere after his contract runs out. Fred Wilpon plans on retaining him. In that sense the Mets have a very stable core, too.
            In all of your glory I see,

            Good for Turner. He turned himself into a player that absolutely sucked into a very good player.

            Shows you what a little hard work, and dedication can do. Too bad he didn't have that attitude before the O's and Mets kicked his lazy ass to the curb. The proof is in the pudding as they say.

            I haven't seen any Captain Kirk posts lately and how is OPS is better than so and so's. Just saying


            By the way I think it was just reported that the North won the Civil War. Its not confirmed yet but reports are coming in.
            Last edited by Paulypal; 08-07-2017, 12:01 PM.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Paulypal View Post

              In all of your glory I see,

              Good for Turner. He turned himself into a player that absolutely sucked into a very good player.

              Shows you what a little hard work, and dedication can do. Too bad he didn't have that attitude before the O's and Mets kicked his lazy ass to the curb. The proof is in the pudding as they say.

              I haven't seen any Captain Kirk posts lately and how is OPS is better than so and so's. Just saying


              By the way I think it was just reported that the North won the Civil War. Its not confirmed yet but reports are coming in.
              Pauly, I'm glad you spotted that rumor. I was too busy trying to verify the rumor that Can Jeff and the Admiral has sold the Mets.
              North of the Big Apple but missing Central Fla :atthepc

              Comment

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