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  • Originally posted by Shea Knight View Post

    With this much time still left in the season, I disagree with both of those points.

    While I'm not suggesting the Mets will win the division (not while sitting at 20-20) I've seen too many collapses by teams bigger and "better" than the Phillies to hand them the division...and the Braves haven't exactly wowed me, either.

    To this point, the predictions of a streaky division marked by evenly-matched but flawed competitors has come true for the Phillies, Braves, and Mets. I'll call my shot right now--I think the Nationals ARE done. I thought so when they lost Harper who--"overrated" or otherwise in terms of how highly he's ranked--is STILL a big-time impact player, WAS still the leader of that offense, and HAS left a gaping hole in his wake. The Nats were a team that couldn't ever get out of the NLDS WITH Harper and WITHOUT the Phillies yet being mature enough to join the Braves and (to a lesser extent) Mets in contention against them.

    And that's WITHOUT mentioning the Nats' somehow having a bullpen that's been even WORSE than the Mets' over that span.

    Philly has Harper, Nola, Arrieta, and a homegrown core that's starting to mature.
    Atlanta has Freddie Freeman and the same crew that won the division last year--I'm still skeptical that alone can get it done this year, but we'll see.
    Even the Mets have it better with Alonso/Conforto/McNeil, maybe Rosario if he can fix his defense, deGrom rounding back into shape, Noah potentially following suit.

    So.

    1. I think the Nationals are done, that the latest choke job in 2018 and Harper leaving has effectively slammed the door shut on their contention window.

    2. The Nats were crowned "Pre-Season World Series Favorites" again...and again...and AGAIN. Over and over again, I said I didn't buy them--and for as dead wrong as I sadly was about Harvey, I HAVE been right about the 2010s Nats.

    3. said it in 2018 when they lost, and I'll say it again--it's stunning to think the METS have had more "success" this decade than the Nats...but the Mets AT LEAST won a pennant somehow...in ways that seem every day more and more like a mad dream..but still, they did it. God help us all, they actually WON something. The 2000s Phillies had a FAR better stretch, and actually, ya know, won the World Series. The 1990s Braves were better for even LONGER, won the World Series...and started helped complete the Braves/Yankees/Dodgers Triumverate of Formative Baseball Frustrations which helped transform me into the embittered Mets fan and human being you see before you...in a manner of speaking, lol.

    4. If the Mets disprove my hopes 4 times out of 5, the Nationals have batted 1.000 in upholding my cynicism about their being a great on paper/"video game" team, but not one that has EVER gelled when actually challenged. They folded against the Giants. They folded against the Dodgers. They folded against the Cubs. They collapsed in-season and folded to the METS, for crying out loud. Which gives way to my most topical revelation about them...

    5. I've said before the Golden State Warriors right now are, after the Jordan Bulls, the best basketball team I've ever seen. They blow away Gregg Popovich's different Spurs teams with David Robinson, Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobli, and Company. They beat the Three-Peat Kobe/Shaq Lakers. They're far better than either of LeBron's winners with the Heat or Cavaliers. In the sport I almost never watch anymore, the Golden State Warriors in playoff time are Must-See TV because they have "IT." They slip in that dagger and END IT.

    The Jeter/Mariano Yankees had "it."
    The Brady/Belichick Patriots have "it."
    The Jordan Bulls had "it."
    The Yzerman Red Wings had "it."

    And I grew up hating most of those teams...but I LOVED to hate them, because they were WORTH that crazy fun sports fan "hate," because you KNEW Jordan would make the big shot or defensive play, or Brady would drive the Pats downfield, or the Red Wings would get that late goal, or the Yankees would drive in runs before Enter Sandman would play in the 9th as Mariano came in...

    As Steph Curry started with ZERO points in the first half of Game 6 on Sunday...and finished with 33 and dagger after dagger after DAGGER from three-point range.

    Whatever happens with the Warriors in this playoffs, they ARE a great all-time team, they have "it"...

    And the James Harden Rockets have had REPEATED chances to show they have "it," but ALWAYS fail--they DON'T have "it," never have, never will...

    And THAT is who I'd compare to the 2010s Nationals.


    They are maybe the biggest disappointment and most underachieving bona-fide "good" baseball team I've ever seen.

    AT LEAST the back-to-back-WS-losing Dodgers and Rangers teams this decade GOT THERE.
    AT LEAST Justin Verlander's Tigers GOT THERE.
    AT LEAST the two Game 7-losing Indians teams, nearly 20 years apart, in 1997 and 2016, GOT THERE.

    You can say that baseball's regular season matters the most in terms of legacies of the Four North American Sports, and you'd be right. That said, at a certain point, when you make the playoffs over...and over...and OVER...and not only don't win the World Series, not even don't win the pennant, but don't even win A PLAYOFF SERIES?

    6. And so, in my sports-watching opinion, I'll take the Mets' decade over the Nationals decade any time, any decade--NOT that the Mets have played better over the course of this decade (they most definitely on balance HAVE NOT, let's be clear) but I'll take a crazy fluky pennant win over protracted excellence in the regular crumpling to dust come playoff time each and EVERY time.

    If I rooted for, you know, a competent team, A Pennant and a Decade-Plus of Poor Decisions vs. Regular Season Consistency Becoming Consistent Postseason Failure shouldn't be a choice I should have to make.

    Buuuuuut I root for the Mets, and not, you know, the Yankees, so here we are.

    Does this in any way excuse the Mets' own failures? Not one bit. But yes, personal preference, in this Pick Your Poison game, I'd "rather" have ours than theirs.

    7. All of which is to say, whatever the Mets will or (sadly more likely) will not do this season...a sweep by the Mets will "bury" the Nats?

    Friends, Mets Fans, Countrymen, lend me your ears,
    I come to BURY the Nats, NOT to praise them,
    A team's October swoons live after them
    June good is oft interred with their bats;
    So let it be with the Nats.


    (NOW after all that, watch them storm back to miraculously win it all this year, lol.)
    I agree that the Nats have been completely dysfunctional for a long time. One of their many stupid moves was limiting Strasborg the one year the team was actually making a run. Talk about a franchise that needs a complete tear down!

    Burying the Nats would be nice. I'm hoping for a sweep. Not banking on it, though. They will probably lose tonight. I really don't think anyone is going to make a run against the Phillies in the division. I hope I am wrong and the Mets end up winning the division.
    Last edited by jjpm74; 05-15-2019, 09:58 AM.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by jjpm74 View Post

      I agree that the Nats have been completely dysfunctional for a long time. One of their many stupid moves was limiting Strasborg the one year the team was actually making a run. Talk about a franchise that needs a complete tear down!

      Burying the Nats would be nice. I'm hoping for a sweep. Not banking on it, though. They will probably lose tonight. I really don't think anyone is going to make a run against the Phillies in the division. I hope I am wrong and the Mets end up winning the division.
      Well, a sweep isn't happening tonight unless the Mets turn it around soon with their bats quieted by Patrick Corbin so far, 5-1 in the bottom of the 6th.

      You know, when Harvey pitched over HIS innings limit in 2015, I made a big thing of it, that (pushed to or otherwise) he did what Strasburg didn't...

      And after everything that happened with Harvey afterward...

      On the one hand, I don't know if the Mets win the pennant without Harvey pitching the full way--win the division, maybe, win the pennant, I think the Cubs might've had a better chance to get something going, and then who knows.

      On the other hand, there's no ignoring what's happened to Harvey after that...whereas at least Strasburg does look to still have a decent career ahead of him. (Or at least a career at all--which, if Harvey keeps bottoming out, might be more than he can say.)

      So I'm forced to say I don't see it as clear cut as I once did, or if I was right on the issue, Strasburg sitting in 2012 vs. Harvey pitching in 2015.

      Different pitchers, different arms, different histories, there's probably no way you can definitively link or disprove cause and effect one way or the other in Harvey's case, I'm not a doctor, obviously, but I doubt sitting would've prevented TOS...

      But Innings Limits vs. Young Pitchers on Contending Teams will come up again and again and again, as so will the Strasburg 2012 vs. Harvey 2015 and After debate.



      The Phillies are definitely the leaders right now. I've seen too many early starts torpedoed by swoons or injuries or a team behind them getting hot, though.

      It's May. We'll see. They're off to a good start, but we'll see.
      "Ya Gotta Believe!" -Tug McGraw ... "How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life." -James T. Kirk ... "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -Sherlock Holmes ... "It is out of the deepest depth that the highest must come to its height." -Friedrich Nietzsche ... "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet

      Comment


      • Mets lose 5-1. At least Drew Gagnon got his first major league hit.
        The Mets have the best, smartest fans in baseball.

        Comment


        • With Vargas removed from the active roster, there's less demand for the Wilpons to pony up for Keuchel. Still, looks like they're conceding a loss in 60% of their games when deGrom, Syndergaard and Wheeler aren't pitching.

          By the way, they knew Matz was dealing with a significant injury while Gio Gonzales was still on the market. Seems like there's an internal salary cap though, so regardless, they weren't spending an extra cent on pitching. It makes you wonder why they bothered to get Jed Lowrie in the first place. Oh right, it's because the Wilpons specialize in the sunk cost fallacy, and were committed to running Vargas out every five days, regardless of results.

          No way they were going to spend another cent on a starter.


          "The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Mongoose View Post
            With Vargas removed from the active roster, there's less demand for the Wilpons to pony up for Keuchel. Still, looks like they're conceding a loss in 60% of their games when deGrom, Syndergaard and Wheeler aren't pitching.

            By the way, they knew Matz was dealing with a significant injury while Gio Gonzales was still on the market. Seems like there's an internal salary cap though, so regardless, they weren't spending an extra cent on pitching. It makes you wonder why they bothered to get Jed Lowrie in the first place. Oh right, it's because the Wilpons specialize in the sunk cost fallacy, and were committed to running Vargas out every five days, regardless of results.

            No way they were going to spend another cent on a starter.
            Their philosophy is to spend money on mediocre veterans hoping they will catch lightning in a bottle and never go all in. It wouldn't surprise me if their line of thinking was that they would win 75% of their games when Vargas wasn't pitching and 5% when he was and somehow equating that to a 100 win season.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Shea Knight View Post

              Well, a sweep isn't happening tonight unless the Mets turn it around soon with their bats quieted by Patrick Corbin so far, 5-1 in the bottom of the 6th.

              You know, when Harvey pitched over HIS innings limit in 2015, I made a big thing of it, that (pushed to or otherwise) he did what Strasburg didn't...

              And after everything that happened with Harvey afterward...

              On the one hand, I don't know if the Mets win the pennant without Harvey pitching the full way--win the division, maybe, win the pennant, I think the Cubs might've had a better chance to get something going, and then who knows.

              On the other hand, there's no ignoring what's happened to Harvey after that...whereas at least Strasburg does look to still have a decent career ahead of him. (Or at least a career at all--which, if Harvey keeps bottoming out, might be more than he can say.)

              So I'm forced to say I don't see it as clear cut as I once did, or if I was right on the issue, Strasburg sitting in 2012 vs. Harvey pitching in 2015.

              Different pitchers, different arms, different histories, there's probably no way you can definitively link or disprove cause and effect one way or the other in Harvey's case, I'm not a doctor, obviously, but I doubt sitting would've prevented TOS...

              But Innings Limits vs. Young Pitchers on Contending Teams will come up again and again and again, as so will the Strasburg 2012 vs. Harvey 2015 and After debate.



              The Phillies are definitely the leaders right now. I've seen too many early starts torpedoed by swoons or injuries or a team behind them getting hot, though.

              It's May. We'll see. They're off to a good start, but we'll see.
              Thorasic Outlet Syndrome is something not fully understood. Either way, I wouldn't give back 2015 in exchange for Harvey making millions on another team. He was never going to sign with the Mets.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Mongoose View Post
                No way they were going to spend another cent on a starter.
                The Mets could have easily gone out and traded for Edwin Jackson like Toronto did. They picked him up for cash considerations.

                I'd like for someone to tell me Edwin Jackson would not be a good fit on this team over Wilmer Font or Drew Gagnon or Tyler Bashlor, whose names were sound like they were generated by a random name generator.
                The Mets have the best, smartest fans in baseball.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Blue387 View Post

                  The Mets could have easily gone out and traded for Edwin Jackson like Toronto did. They picked him up for cash considerations.

                  I'd like for someone to tell me Edwin Jackson would not be a good fit on this team over Wilmer Font or Drew Gagnon or Tyler Bashlor, whose names were sound like they were generated by a random name generator.
                  Bartolo Colon is still looking for a team. So is James Shields.Neither one would be better than those three, though.

                  Having Font start yesterday was moronic. They should have had Wheeler start and saved Font for when they play the Marlins again. Everything should have been done to ensure that the team had the best possible change to win in the hope that they would and maybe get on a role. That is another perfect example of the ineptitude of the way this team is managed and I don't care how blindly these "geniuses" want to rely on analytics. When a team is used to being mediocre and the manager runs the team like a little league team where everyone gets a trophy and even bad outings are celebrated, it breeds more losing and mediocrity. Calloway is not what this club needs and a couple of heads need to role before this team turns into another dumpster fire.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Shea Knight View Post

                    Well, a sweep isn't happening tonight unless the Mets turn it around soon with their bats quieted by Patrick Corbin so far, 5-1 in the bottom of the 6th.

                    You know, when Harvey pitched over HIS innings limit in 2015, I made a big thing of it, that (pushed to or otherwise) he did what Strasburg didn't...

                    And after everything that happened with Harvey afterward...

                    On the one hand, I don't know if the Mets win the pennant without Harvey pitching the full way--win the division, maybe, win the pennant, I think the Cubs might've had a better chance to get something going, and then who knows.

                    On the other hand, there's no ignoring what's happened to Harvey after that...whereas at least Strasburg does look to still have a decent career ahead of him. (Or at least a career at all--which, if Harvey keeps bottoming out, might be more than he can say.)

                    So I'm forced to say I don't see it as clear cut as I once did, or if I was right on the issue, Strasburg sitting in 2012 vs. Harvey pitching in 2015.

                    Different pitchers, different arms, different histories, there's probably no way you can definitively link or disprove cause and effect one way or the other in Harvey's case, I'm not a doctor, obviously, but I doubt sitting would've prevented TOS...

                    But Innings Limits vs. Young Pitchers on Contending Teams will come up again and again and again, as so will the Strasburg 2012 vs. Harvey 2015 and After debate.



                    The Phillies are definitely the leaders right now. I've seen too many early starts torpedoed by swoons or injuries or a team behind them getting hot, though.

                    It's May. We'll see. They're off to a good start, but we'll see.

                    Harvey had an innings limit because of TJS. There is no link between TJS and TOS. Several pitchers have had TOS and they were at all different stages in their career. I believe that TOS was going to happen to Harvey whether he pitched or not in the 2015 post season


                    I wouldnt worry about the Phillies necessarily.

                    The Mets toughest opponent is themselves, and I dont mean the players. Everyone is killing Font, Gagnon, Vargas, Flexen and whoever else. I get it, but its the wrong avenue. The real problem is that these players are being asked to perform at a level that they can not perform at. It really is just that simple. People are being asked to perform at a job that they dont have qualifications for. We should not even know the name Chris Flexen.

                    So what happens?

                    The fan base says "Font sucks", "Flexen sucks".........which may be true, but those players are just some in a long line of people that have taken bullets for the real problem. Fred & Jeff Wilpon. They had all off season to "go for it", and this was their plan.

                    Has anyone heard from Joey Van Slick lately? The "GM" has had a low profile since the "team to beat" has floundered.
                    Last edited by Paulypal; 05-16-2019, 06:31 AM.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Blue387 View Post

                      The Mets could have easily gone out and traded for Edwin Jackson like Toronto did. They picked him up for cash considerations.

                      I'd like for someone to tell me Edwin Jackson would not be a good fit on this team over Wilmer Font or Drew Gagnon or Tyler Bashlor, whose names were sound like they were generated by a random name generator.
                      Depends on if you prefer a 35 yr old with a career WHIP of 1.45 over three 20 somethings. On his 14th team.

                      Comment


                      • Shame they couldn't have won last night, with Font pitching. They could have been going for a 3-game sweep today, a chance to put the Nationals 10 games out of 1st place. No matter how early in the season, 10 games back is a hole.

                        Well .. they could still put them 8 games back.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Mongoose View Post
                          With Vargas removed from the active roster, there's less demand for the Wilpons to pony up for Keuchel. Still, looks like they're conceding a loss in 60% of their games when deGrom, Syndergaard and Wheeler aren't pitching.

                          By the way, they knew Matz was dealing with a significant injury while Gio Gonzales was still on the market. Seems like there's an internal salary cap though, so regardless, they weren't spending an extra cent on pitching. It makes you wonder why they bothered to get Jed Lowrie in the first place. Oh right, it's because the Wilpons specialize in the sunk cost fallacy, and were committed to running Vargas out every five days, regardless of results.

                          No way they were going to spend another cent on a starter.
                          Vargas is scheduled to start this weekend in Miami.

                          Comment


                          • I am going to guess that McNeil has an oblique strain or rig cage pull. Either way we are possibly looking at a few weeks without McNeil.

                            Hopefully it is something else

                            Comment


                            • Mets lose 7-6, made it interesting in the end, blah blah blah.
                              The Mets have the best, smartest fans in baseball.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Blue387 View Post
                                Mets lose 7-6, made it interesting in the end, blah blah blah.
                                More importantly they possibly lost McNeil and Conforto

                                This would guarantee Broxton getting a lot of at bats.

                                If so the 2019 season reads like this

                                2019 Mets
                                DOB 3/28/2019
                                DOD 5/16/2019

                                As I am typing Conforto has been diagnosed with a concussion.

                                Same story as last year. Season is over in May. 270 days until pitchers and catchers.
                                Last edited by Paulypal; 05-16-2019, 01:46 PM.

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