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2019-2020 Mets Offseason Thread

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  • #46
    Originally posted by LI METS FAN View Post

    Hopefully in Queens. The team is starting to have offensively talented players, finally. It would be a shame to be that team that loses every game 8-6. And that is with the understanding that the bullpen is the biggest problem.
    The thing is, the Mets were still 7th overall in team pitching even with the bad bullpen.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by jjpm74 View Post
      Mets starters led MLB in IP and were the 3rd best staff in MLB overall behind the Dodgers and Nationals.

      The Fangraphs overall ranking of MLB pitchers this season have deGrom at #2 (Cole at #1), Wheeler at 15 and Syndergaard at 18. Matz was at 96.

      Syndergaard has a down year, but it was not a bad year. Wheeler is going to get a big payday somewhere.
      This seems like a valid indictment of the Mets' bullpen sucking in 2019 more than other bullpens sucking.
      Put it in the books.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by milladrive View Post

        This seems like a valid indictment of the Mets' bullpen sucking in 2019 more than other bullpens sucking.
        I think the Dodgers have 3 pitchers in ten too 15 in blown saves ; Nationals have 2 .

        what if the Dodgers had a good bullpen ?

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        • #49
          Originally posted by mandrake View Post

          I think the Dodgers have 3 pitchers in ten too 15 in blown saves ; Nationals have 2 .

          what if the Dodgers had a good bullpen ?
          The Dodgers, Nats, Breweres, Cubs all have more blown saves than the Mets do. That doesnt mean the Met pen didnt suck - it did, but there are playoff teams that were somehow worse with blown saves.
          Last edited by Paulypal; 10-01-2019, 12:19 PM.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Paulypal View Post

            The Dodgers, Nats, Breweres, Cubs all have more blown saves than the Mets do. That doesnt mean the Met pen didnt suck - it did, but there are playoff teams that were somehow worse with blown saves.
            The reason those teams had more blown saves than the Mets is because they had a lot more leads in games than the Mets. You can only blow a save when you enter the game with a lead.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Paulypal View Post

              The Dodgers, Nats, Breweres, Cubs all have more blown saves than the Mets do. That doesnt mean the Met pen didnt suck - it did, but there are playoff teams that were somehow worse with blown saves.
              You can still win a game with a blown save.

              The Nats (thank you very much) bullpen lost three games this season against the Milwaukee Brewers. Did they still make the play-in game tonight? You bet.
              The Mets were 1-5 against the Brewers. No blown saves, one 18 inning game. All the games were between April 26th and May 5th. 6 games in 10 days.

              Timing is everything. The Nats late inning failures hurt the Mets, not the Nats.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by LI METS FAN View Post

                You can still win a game with a blown save.

                The Nats (thank you very much) bullpen lost three games this season against the Milwaukee Brewers. Did they still make the play-in game tonight? You bet.
                The Mets were 1-5 against the Brewers. No blown saves, one 18 inning game. All the games were between April 26th and May 5th. 6 games in 10 days.

                Timing is everything. The Nats late inning failures hurt the Mets, not the Nats.
                The Mets hurt the Mets. 162 games are enough to do your own work.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by SavoyBG View Post

                  The reason those teams had more blown saves than the Mets is because they had a lot more leads in games than the Mets. You can only blow a save when you enter the game with a lead.
                  giphy.gif

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Paulypal View Post

                    The Mets hurt the Mets. 162 games are enough to do your own work.
                    Understood. But blown saves by playoff teams don’t hurt playoff bound teams. Or shoddy defense. Or any other stat. Whatever flaws, they overcame them.
                    Except from tonight on.

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                    • #55
                      The problem with the blown saves stat is that it includes a game where the reliever enters the game in the 5th with a 2-1 lead and then the game gets tied. And one team can get 2 or 3 or even more blown saves in the same game. The Mets blown saves really were blown saves., They gave up an all time record 36 home runs in the 9th inning this season, with 15 of them coming from Diaz.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by LI METS FAN View Post

                        Understood. But blown saves by playoff teams don’t hurt playoff bound teams. Or shoddy defense. Or any other stat. Whatever flaws, they overcame them.
                        Except from tonight on.
                        Indeed. My whole reaction was based on the Mets' bullpen throwing the fewest innings in baseball while the staff being the third best (in what, JJ?) overall behind two teams that won 106 and 93 games this year. Seems to me a bullpen has to really REALLY suck to win only 86 games and be in that company.
                        Put it in the books.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by milladrive View Post

                          Indeed. My whole reaction was based on the Mets' bullpen throwing the fewest innings in baseball while the staff being the third best (in what, JJ?) overall behind two teams that won 106 and 93 games this year. Seems to me a bullpen has to really REALLY suck to win only 86 games and be in that company.
                          Fangraphs lists overall pitching as #3 for the Mets starters and #7 for overall pitching including non-starters. I do not know how they calculate their rankings or what they default to. Mongoose knows a lot more about their formulas than I do.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by jjpm74 View Post

                            Fangraphs lists overall pitching as #3 for the Mets starters and #7 for overall pitching including non-starters. I do not know how they calculate their rankings or what they default to. Mongoose knows a lot more about their formulas than I do.
                            Thanks for the positive mention, but there's nothing secret or obscure about Fangraphs' formula. It's right here:

                            https://library.fangraphs.com/misc/war/

                            Mets team defense graded poorly. Pitch framing was poor.

                            The team only carried about five ML quality relievers, plus a loogy. Two of those relievers were Familia and Diaz. The biggest problem with the bullpen was too little ML talent and no room for error. For a while, the only reliable reliever was Lugo.

                            Every season the Wilpons cut corners in the bullpen and every season it collapses. Because of this, the starters always have to work deep into games. Miraculously, they all stayed healthy this season. I suspect if Familia and Diaz had performed well, they'd be wearing down by now. Familia's previous October problems probably resulted from overuse.


                            "The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by LI METS FAN View Post

                              You can still win a game with a blown save.

                              The Nats (thank you very much) bullpen lost three games this season against the Milwaukee Brewers. Did they still make the play-in game tonight? You bet.
                              The Mets were 1-5 against the Brewers. No blown saves, one 18 inning game. All the games were between April 26th and May 5th. 6 games in 10 days.

                              Timing is everything. The Nats late inning failures hurt the Mets, not the Nats.
                              I don't agree with you on a lot of things, but I do on this. You can still win with a blown save..You are gonna have to explain the comment about the Nats late inning failures??
                              North of the Big Apple but missing Central Fla :atthepc

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by LI METS FAN View Post

                                Hopefully in Queens. The team is starting to have offensively talented players, finally. It would be a shame to be that team that loses every game 8-6. And that is with the understanding that the bullpen is the biggest problem.
                                Don't jump on the offensively talented players just yet..With players these days, you never know from year to year...Will Alonso hit 50 HR's next year or will the NL learn how to pitch to him?? Good question. Only Father Time knows!!!

                                Just think of poster child Ike Davis..
                                North of the Big Apple but missing Central Fla :atthepc

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