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2019-2020 Mets Offseason Thread

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  • Paulypal
    replied
    Originally posted by Mongoose View Post

    No change.

    Just to wrap up actual off-season discussion, I'm curious as to what everyone thinks of the actual state of the team. I think Wheeler and Syndergaard have been underrated by some. They traditionally didn't give up much contact, and kept the fielding deficiencies from glaring more obviously. Unless Rosario's improvements stick, and Guillorme sees more time, there's no reason to expect much improvement in the infield. I see Nimmo as a slighly below average CFer, Conforto as maybe average to slighly below, and LF doesn't inspire confidence.

    I think the offense should be good if everyone stays healthy. With Smith and Davis as reserves, plus a healthy Cespedes at DH, the lineup should be above average, with a bit of depth. With Nimmo healthy at the top of the order, and Alonso and McNeil hitting behind him, I'd think it'd be a pleasure to watch. The starting pitching is a concern. There's no reason to have much confidence in the bullpen. I haven't taken a good look at the rest of the league, but I think the Mets are roughly a .500 team on their own merits. Maybe a bit worse if the pitching is as bad as it might potentially be, and the defense remains below average.

    What does everyone else think about the state of the team after this off-season?
    I think the offense will be entertaining. First time in a long time I have gone into a season thinking the offense was the teams biggest asset.

    Their defense is bad with the potential for putrid. In fact bad may be an uptick with putrid as the status quo.

    The pitching is the worst it has been (on paper) in 5 years at least. After Jake you can say maybe or ok about 4-5 guys, but nobody who is the lock 1a or even a 2. I am not sure I agree that Wheeler/Noah were underrated - I think it was more frustration of not reaching potential given the tools. I can say this easily of myself in regards to Noah. I thought he was going to be easily the lock ace of the staff a few years ago. He is good, but the seemingly large space between his ears has hurt him a couple of times. He could be flat out dominant and hasnt been. My opinion.

    Matz pitched well last year and times was very good -- hopefully he turned a corner.

    Stroman sets up as the 3, and I dont think he has a much higher ceiling or lower floor at this point.

    Porcello/Wacha -- both are on the wait and see list.

    As I said before OD The March Version - the bullpen has got to be better. You dont need to know a baseball from an ironing board to know that it cant be much worse.


    Either way I am slowly getting back into it. A couple of weeks ago it was off the radar, but I am semi looking forward to it at this point.

    With the potential for a good offense I look forward to watching the Mets with the bats...........again something I havent said in a very long time.

    I see them behind the Nats/Braves and battling the Phils for 3rd. With the expanded playoffs I expect to see the Mets in the mix

    It will be interesting to see baseball as a semi sprint to the finish.

    Leave a comment:


  • jjpm74
    replied
    Originally posted by Mongoose View Post

    No change.

    Just to wrap up actual off-season discussion, I'm curious as to what everyone thinks of the actual state of the team. I think Wheeler and Syndergaard have been underrated by some. They traditionally didn't give up much contact, and kept the fielding deficiencies from glaring more obviously. Unless Rosario's improvements stick, and Guillorme sees more time, there's no reason to expect much improvement in the infield. I see Nimmo as a slighly below average CFer, Conforto as maybe average to slighly below, and LF doesn't inspire confidence.

    I think the offense should be good if everyone stays healthy. With Smith and Davis as reserves, plus a healthy Cespedes at DH, the lineup should be above average, with a bit of depth. With Nimmo healthy at the top of the order, and Alonso and McNeil hitting behind him, I'd think it'd be a pleasure to watch. The starting pitching is a concern. There's no reason to have much confidence in the bullpen. I haven't taken a good look at the rest of the league, but I think the Mets are roughly a .500 team on their own merits. Maybe a bit worse if the pitching is as bad as it might potentially be, and the defense remains below average.

    What does everyone else think about the state of the team after this off-season?
    Offense on paper is fine. Defense is lacking at the key positions. Pitching is one injury away from circling the toilet bowl.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mongoose
    replied
    Originally posted by jjpm74 View Post

    I think their primary catchers this season are Ramos, Nido and Rivera.
    No change.

    Just to wrap up actual off-season discussion, I'm curious as to what everyone thinks of the actual state of the team. I think Wheeler and Syndergaard have been underrated by some. They traditionally didn't give up much contact, and kept the fielding deficiencies from glaring more obviously. Unless Rosario's improvements stick, and Guillorme sees more time, there's no reason to expect much improvement in the infield. I see Nimmo as a slighly below average CFer, Conforto as maybe average to slighly below, and LF doesn't inspire confidence.

    I think the offense should be good if everyone stays healthy. With Smith and Davis as reserves, plus a healthy Cespedes at DH, the lineup should be above average, with a bit of depth. With Nimmo healthy at the top of the order, and Alonso and McNeil hitting behind him, I'd think it'd be a pleasure to watch. The starting pitching is a concern. There's no reason to have much confidence in the bullpen. I haven't taken a good look at the rest of the league, but I think the Mets are roughly a .500 team on their own merits. Maybe a bit worse if the pitching is as bad as it might potentially be, and the defense remains below average.

    What does everyone else think about the state of the team after this off-season?

    Leave a comment:


  • jjpm74
    replied
    Originally posted by Mongoose View Post

    Overall, the Mets didn't add enough to compensate for the talent they lost. I still wish they'd gotten someone to supplement Ramos in the late innings, to frame sinkers and sliders better. If Cespedes can still hit, though, it can be a very strong line-up.
    I think their primary catchers this season are Ramos, Nido and Rivera.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mongoose
    replied
    Originally posted by Mongoose View Post
    I think most of us would consider the Mets' 2019 season promising. The problems were fixable. In a vacuum, the team is a bullpen away. I would also improve the defense.

    The Offense:

    Ideally, I'd put Conforto in RF, Nimmo is adequate in CF, and Smith or Davis, with defensive work, should be able to handle LF. I'd send Smith and Davis to winter ball, to work on LF and 3B, respectively, and see what progress they make. Start them working with coaches tomorrow. Both have shown good ML bats and a work ethic.

    McNeil should be able to handle 3B. Ideally, the Cano trade never happened, and McNeil can play 2B, and the Mets would be in play for Rendon. Cano is survivable if his range at 2B can be improved through positioning. If the Mets are willing to sit him when called for, and if his second half means anything, he could contribute.

    Perhaps if the Mets get some analytic people to handle where to position their fielders, they could improve with the players they have. I have no idea if there's been any focus on this.

    Rosario's second half was very encouraging. Alonso exceeded the most optimistic expectations. Nimmo's a slightly below average defender in CF, but gets on base 40% of the time, with pop. One could argue the need for a better fielding CFer, but it's not nearly the biggest priority. Unfortunately Kelenic is gone.

    Guillorme is under most people's radar, but is a great fielder who gets on base. I'd love to see him get some starts when Stroman or any contact oriented pitcher is on the mound.

    Ramos's ability to frame pitches has declined after all the knee injuries, and a defense oriented catcher who can hit a little should be brought in to share time.

    I honestly think, if Smith and Davis have time to learn the new positions they were forced into, the Mets might not need much else in the way of position players. Other than reducing Cano's role if he's not performing (we can dream), I can't see many immediately obvious ways to improve, other than a Rendon, or trading surplus bats for a center fielder who combines great defense and acceptable (or better) offense. Problem with trading Davis or Smith is they're vital contributors to the 25 man roster. There isn't a lot of excess to trade.

    The Pitching:

    Wheeler should have been extended when it was affordable. Either Wheeler or someone of equal talent needs to be signed to maintain status quo or better. There's nobody as good as Syndergaard available as cheap. The right move is to retain them both. There's really no choice. Both are top 20 ML pitchers. The fall-off between what Fred and Jeff need to spend, and what they probably want to spend would torpedo any real chance for the post-season next year. They must do the right thing.

    There is no ML ready organizational depth on the mound.

    Unfortunately, the Mets denuded themselves of their best Minor League pitching. Dunn, Kay, etc. could have been plugged into the bullpen at low cost. Players like Smith or Davis might well be traded away for relievers, but I feel such a return would shortchange the team, as they have more value than they've been able to build in limited playing time. Look at the Syracuse roster, and you'll realize how important they are. The most realistic way to fix the problem is to spend money.

    Basically, this off-season hinges on the Wilpons' willingness to reinvest the Mets/SNY's massive revenue in the team. There isn't enough talent in the organization to trade for needed bullpen depth. The Mets are close to being authentic contenders. It's on Fred and Jeff to push the roster over the finish line.
    I'm posting here instead of the 2020 hiatus thread. I'm following up on the first post in this thread (quoted above), and about the Mets' actual off-season moves, rather than the unusual accommodations to various quarantines. It seems appropriate.

    In my opinion, the Mets didn't do what they needed, in order to win. It was a must to either re-sign Wheeler or replace him with equal quality. Instead they got a lesser pitcher who will be more reliant on the Mets' substandard defense. In addition, Syndergaard is out for the season. The drop off after deGrom is steep.

    Betances is another scratch and dent signing. The bullpen could be very good, or very bad. Familia reminded me of Doug Sisk, back in 1985; both sinkerball pitchers who couldn't throw a strike. They would get behind in the count, walk batters, eventually have to throw a strike, which hitters would sit on. Sisk actually got back on track after that season. Perhaps Familia will. I still think his problems and Diaz's were related to Ramos being unable to frame low pitches well. The Mets, unfortunately, didn't acquire a notable pitch framing catcher to spell Ramos in the late innings, which I think would have helped all the Mets' (potentially) best relievers immensely, since they rely on working the bottom of the zone.

    The DH helps the Mets. I suspect Cespedes can probably still hit. We'll see. I'm glad they kept Dom Smith. He's probably going to see time in LF, and spell Alonso at 1B from time to time, giving Alonso rest if he needs it. I'm still not sure what the story on off-days and doubleheaders will be, or how much rest anybody will need. If the season is simply pro-rated, it won't be anything unusual. I still think, if Cespedes can play the field, it would be good for Smith to see more time at 1B, with Alonso as DH on occasion; Smith being regarded as the better fielder there.

    I hope Smith and J.D. Davis have had the chance to work on their fielding (Smith in LF, Davis at OF and 3B). If Davis could play a decent 3B, that would strengthen potential lineups immensely. I was saying last season, I wanted to see Guillorme get playing time, since he could really seal off the middle of the infield (if Rosario's late season improvement holds). In Baseball References OOTP simulation of games missed this season, Guillorme is about the only Met hitting well:

    https://www.baseball-reference.com/s...NYM/2020.shtml

    I'm wary about Cano. Perhaps he can perform better with some rest. Unfortunately Fred and Jeff will still micromanage, which means Cano probably starts regardless of his performance. Perhaps he'll surprise us. I think Guillorme could get on base about 35% of the time and provide great fielding. I also think if J.D. Davis could field 3B adequately, you just move McNeil back to 2B (where he belonged), and the lineup is great. We'll see what happens.

    Overall, the Mets didn't add enough to compensate for the talent they lost. I still wish they'd gotten someone to supplement Ramos in the late innings, to frame sinkers and sliders better. If Cespedes can still hit, though, it can be a very strong line-up.

    Leave a comment:


  • Paulypal
    replied
    Originally posted by Shea Knight View Post

    I've heard a bunch of people suggest that, I hope they do it, looks like things are starting to get really bad in NY and LA's probably a few days to a week behind.

    And now Noah needs TJS.

    Which is impossibly insignificant next to everything else that's happening in the world (a couple friends of mine in Paris and Hamburg couldn't even get flour for days, and some Russian clients I teach say people in Moscow are buying a ton of buckwheat, of all things, it's crazy everywhere) but still--even with baseball shut down for a pandemic the Mets' injury bug knows no bounds. Only the Mets.
    Well in 2019 they had no injuries. That could not continue. Besides Nimmo they had not significant injuries and none to the pitching staff. That is unheard of. A huge part of their 86 wins was because of health.

    Leave a comment:


  • Shea Knight
    replied
    Originally posted by Paulypal View Post

    My new prediction is that the All Star Game is the way the season kicks off in July, and they play the 2nd half of the season. 70-80 game season.
    I've heard a bunch of people suggest that, I hope they do it, looks like things are starting to get really bad in NY and LA's probably a few days to a week behind.

    And now Noah needs TJS.

    Which is impossibly insignificant next to everything else that's happening in the world (a couple friends of mine in Paris and Hamburg couldn't even get flour for days, and some Russian clients I teach say people in Moscow are buying a ton of buckwheat, of all things, it's crazy everywhere) but still--even with baseball shut down for a pandemic the Mets' injury bug knows no bounds. Only the Mets.

    Leave a comment:


  • jjpm74
    replied
    Originally posted by Blue387 View Post
    Veteran right-hander Edwin Jackson received minor league offers from two teams before electing to reunite with one of his many previous teams – the Diamondbacks – back in February, Zach Buchanan of The Athletic reports. The Mets were the other club in on Jackson, according to Buchanan.

    https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/...n-jackson.html

    I had mentioned Edwin Jackson as a potentially useful starter for the Mets back in 2019, actually three times in the 2019 season thread:
    In one spring training start, he gave up 9 runs in 5 innings and was semi-useful in 2018. I can see him being a back of the rotation/mop up guy.

    Leave a comment:


  • Blue387
    replied
    Veteran right-hander Edwin Jackson received minor league offers from two teams before electing to reunite with one of his many previous teams – the Diamondbacks – back in February, Zach Buchanan of The Athletic reports. The Mets were the other club in on Jackson, according to Buchanan.

    https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/...n-jackson.html

    I had mentioned Edwin Jackson as a potentially useful starter for the Mets back in 2019, actually three times in the 2019 season thread:

    Originally posted by Blue387 View Post

    The Mets could have easily gone out and traded for Edwin Jackson like Toronto did. They picked him up for cash considerations.

    I'd like for someone to tell me Edwin Jackson would not be a good fit on this team over Wilmer Font or Drew Gagnon or Tyler Bashlor, whose names were sound like they were generated by a random name generator.

    Leave a comment:


  • brooklynboy
    replied
    Originally posted by Paulypal View Post

    My new prediction is that the All Star Game is the way the season kicks off in July, and they play the 2nd half of the season. 70-80 game season.
    Looks that way Pauly. They can't go much past July 1 and have a realistic season.

    Leave a comment:


  • milladrive
    replied
    Originally posted by jjpm74 View Post

    You know it won't be baseball related for a while as much as we want it to stay on the topic on the Mets. Honestly, I'm not even thinking about baseball right now. I am waiting to hear back to see if I am positive or negative. That is the new norm.

    On the Mets, there really is absolutely nothing going on.
    Yeah, but this is BBF, JJ, and it really has to stay true to its mantra of baseball-only chat. It simply can't be about anything else. Privately, have at it, but on the board it has to maintain a tie to the game. If nothing's going on with the Mets or baseball worth posting, my good friend, it'll have to be a quiet board until there is.

    It's a judgement call as to how far it can digress, and I'm doin' the best I can lately.

    Leave a comment:


  • jjpm74
    replied
    Originally posted by milladrive View Post
    Guys, please remember to keep it baseball-related. It can't digress into a concentrated discourse about even something as important as this.
    You know it won't be baseball related for a while as much as we want it to stay on the topic on the Mets. Honestly, I'm not even thinking about baseball right now. I am waiting to hear back to see if I am positive or negative. That is the new norm.

    On the Mets, there really is absolutely nothing going on.

    Leave a comment:


  • milladrive
    replied
    Guys, please remember to keep it baseball-related. It can't digress into a concentrated discourse about even something as important as this.

    Leave a comment:


  • jjpm74
    replied
    Originally posted by Mongoose View Post
    In the meantime, be prepared.
    Yes, absolutely! Things are going to get worse before they get together.

    Leave a comment:


  • ol' aches and pains
    replied
    Originally posted by Mongoose View Post
    Individuals, including Bartolo Colon, have to go elsewhere to get the most advanced treatment.
    Does Bartolo have the virus?

    Leave a comment:

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