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  • I was not expecting Nido of all people to hit a home run to dead center. That ball was blasted by a guy not know for having power.

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    • Now a grand slam for Nido. What is going on here? He has 6 RBIs on 2 HRs today! He hit only 4 home runs all of last year. The looks on the faces of his teammates says it all.

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      • And Soto Mark Reynolds it. I remember that series well. August 2009
        Last edited by LI METS FAN; 08-13-2020, 12:26 PM.

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        • It is worth noting that Peterson's line today was 5 IPs 1 R 0 ER 1 Hit. He had another good game.

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          • Originally posted by milladrive View Post

            Along with Acuna and Tatis, Soto is one of my favorite young players. You're right, the Mets have never had a position player of that calibre.
            Agreed I forgot about Tatis. He is a dynamic player for sure. Too bad he is on the west coast and we cant watch him regularly. Probably a little easier for you

            On another note - if Soto played 162 against the Mets he would pass Bonds 762 by next June.

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            • Originally posted by Paulypal View Post

              Shea Knight are you for real? "A proven competent hitter"? Seriously? Amed Rosario is a proven competent hitter?

              Have you looked at his career numbers ever? He is below average he needs to improve by 10% to become average in OPS+..

              Speed? 68% SB% - Yes he is fast, but does it translate on the baseball field. So far that is a no. Maybe he should run track.

              You keep talking about him being 24 like his age is a skill set. It isnt. It isnt close to being a skill. Age is only an asset if there is talent with that age.


              Everyone fell in love with Rosario because they were told how good he was before he got to the majors. I have very bad news for everyone the scouts were wrong about as wrong as wrong can be. Some Met fans can not let go and are trying to find the mirage in the desert.
              I said "competent," not an All-Star or Amazin' or even .300. He batted .287 last year (in 655 plate appearances, so a pretty fair sample size), which is both 1. Marked improvement from the meh of .256 the year before and 2. I'd say, yes--batting .287 is just about the definition of a "competent" hitter.

              Bat .287 and there's a pretty decent chance you stay on a big league roster, and a fair chance at the starting lineup, and even if you don't, someone else will scoop you up, because .287 is..."competent," "respectable," "gets the job done," whatever you want to call it.

              Billy Hamilton WISHES he hit .287.

              No, being Age 24 isn't a skill, but it DOES mean your skills can still be improving--like, say, improving your batting average 31 points from 2018 to 2019 like Rosario?

              You're placing your bet on this being the final form of Prime Rosario way too soon.

              Yeah, 68% base stealing isn't gonna cut it...MAYBE that's why they brought in the aforementioned Billy "My Career Is Literally Sustained By Base Stealing Not Hitting" Hamilton? Because MAYBE that 68% can go up?

              You've watched Rosario run--you really think that's a guy who with coaching and mentorship can't do BETTER than 68%? Besides which, stolen bases aren't the only metric for speed--Rosario busts it around 1st or 2nd game after game, he gets extra bases with his speed--and batting .287, unlike Hamilton, he WILL get on base. Cure that Swing-At-Everything-itis as he especially had when he first came up and whiffed at everything and draw some walks and he'll get on base even MORE.

              AND we once again run up against the Pauly Paradox on Trades:

              Players are either not good enough and need to be dumped or traded ASAP...but if they improve half the time you seem to ask "What can we trade them for?"

              AND, much as I love pitchers, if there's one thing we agree on it's that one of the "right ways" to build a team is from the infield out with homegrown talent, aka the way the Cubs were built and as classic a method for building a team as taking a Quarterback and an O-Lineman to protect him for a rebuilding NFL team. (Or, if you're the Jets, Browns, Lions, and Cardinals for most of the past 50 years, taking one poor unsuspecting soon-to-be-ruined quarterback another and then whatever other shiny keys are dangled in front of the front office's face while letting that young QB get steamrolled by opposing defenses on the way to Yet Another Lottery Pick.)

              ANYWAY, I said for years that the Mets would never do that, it's too expensive and/or requires too much patience for their impatient (often incompetent) staff, that Pitchers Powering Hitless Wonders was the best shot at a Wild Card and any hope of anything.

              Well, the Mets' pitching staff save "Please Don't Name and Jinx Him" has crumpled to dust this season like an autumn leaf (or, sticking with the NFL Draft/QB metaphor above, Ryan Leaf) and on the flip side, for the first time in at least a decade (and arguably since the Piazza era) they have a shot at actually HAVING a set, stable, pretty good infield in Alonso/Rosario/Gimenez/Davis.

              Will that work? WAY too early to say. But it gets late early in a 60-game season, so why not see if they look the part these next 40 games instead of just punting on a recent pick faster than the Browns showing Johnny Manziel the door? (And at least that was warranted, lol.)
              "Ya Gotta Believe!" -Tug McGraw ... "How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life." -James T. Kirk ... "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -Sherlock Holmes ... "It is out of the deepest depth that the highest must come to its height." -Friedrich Nietzsche ... "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet

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              • Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
                I IMPLORE THE TOTALITY OF THIS FORUM - AS I HAVE ASKED 10X NOW - PLEASE TELL ME WHAT AMED ROSARIO EXCELS ON THE BASEBALL FIELD.
                After a while, responding to the same question, over and over, gets tiresome. He excels at raw physical ability. He's had the misfortune of winding up in an organization famously deficient at getting the most out of its players' raw ability.

                He had a good season last year, at 23, by any reasonable metric. Unlike most shortstops who put up those numbers, everybody knows he can do better. It's kind of like investing in a future. It's possible that by next season, a new development team will be in place, which can better realize its players' abilities. Considering it will cost nothing, I really want to retain Amed Rosario, so we can maybe see a flower come to full bloom. Not a very macho analogy, but it's the first that comes to mind, and this is a post, not an essay.

                He's already on the Mets. We're not talking about making any moves here. I don't know why this is being so hotly debated.

                Originally posted by milladrive View Post

                Along with Acuna and Tatis, Soto is one of my favorite young players. You're right, the Mets have never had a position player of that calibre.
                Strawberry led the league in OPS+, and was consistently top 10 in most offensive categories as a Met. He was a 30/30 talent. The first half of his career is statistically similar to Reggie Jackson's. If he'd stayed sober, he'd have been a first ballot Hall of Famer.

                Soto is unusual. Except for Tony Conigliaro, I think most everyone who's put up his numbers, at his age, has been an inner circle Hall of Famer. Players like that, who aren't, like Conigliaro or Pete Reiser, are still legendary. Not a lot of franchises get players like that.

                Finally, I'd like to point out that a couple players, who don't usually see much playing time - Dom Smith and Luis Guillorme - are doing well with a little consistent exposure. Another reason getting Cano and Lowrie was idiotic was because McNeil and Guillorme were already under contract at minimum wage.

                Smith's power was a question mark, in the Minors, but he has 14 HR in his last 219 AB. Today's home run was opposite field.

                Not to jinx it, but Nimmo has gotten on base in 34 straight games. Maybe we'll see Nido a little more now.
                Last edited by Mongoose; 08-13-2020, 05:38 PM.


                "The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!

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                • Originally posted by Shea Knight View Post

                  I said "competent," not an All-Star or Amazin' or even .300. He batted .287 last year (in 655 plate appearances, so a pretty fair sample size), which is both 1. Marked improvement from the meh of .256 the year before and 2. I'd say, yes--batting .287 is just about the definition of a "competent" hitter.

                  Bat .287 and there's a pretty decent chance you stay on a big league roster, and a fair chance at the starting lineup, and even if you don't, someone else will scoop you up, because .287 is..."competent," "respectable," "gets the job done," whatever you want to call it.

                  Billy Hamilton WISHES he hit .287.

                  No, being Age 24 isn't a skill, but it DOES mean your skills can still be improving--like, say, improving your batting average 31 points from 2018 to 2019 like Rosario?

                  You're placing your bet on this being the final form of Prime Rosario way too soon.

                  Yeah, 68% base stealing isn't gonna cut it...MAYBE that's why they brought in the aforementioned Billy "My Career Is Literally Sustained By Base Stealing Not Hitting" Hamilton? Because MAYBE that 68% can go up?

                  You've watched Rosario run--you really think that's a guy who with coaching and mentorship can't do BETTER than 68%? Besides which, stolen bases aren't the only metric for speed--Rosario busts it around 1st or 2nd game after game, he gets extra bases with his speed--and batting .287, unlike Hamilton, he WILL get on base. Cure that Swing-At-Everything-itis as he especially had when he first came up and whiffed at everything and draw some walks and he'll get on base even MORE.

                  AND we once again run up against the Pauly Paradox on Trades:

                  Players are either not good enough and need to be dumped or traded ASAP...but if they improve half the time you seem to ask "What can we trade them for?"

                  AND, much as I love pitchers, if there's one thing we agree on it's that one of the "right ways" to build a team is from the infield out with homegrown talent, aka the way the Cubs were built and as classic a method for building a team as taking a Quarterback and an O-Lineman to protect him for a rebuilding NFL team. (Or, if you're the Jets, Browns, Lions, and Cardinals for most of the past 50 years, taking one poor unsuspecting soon-to-be-ruined quarterback another and then whatever other shiny keys are dangled in front of the front office's face while letting that young QB get steamrolled by opposing defenses on the way to Yet Another Lottery Pick.)

                  ANYWAY, I said for years that the Mets would never do that, it's too expensive and/or requires too much patience for their impatient (often incompetent) staff, that Pitchers Powering Hitless Wonders was the best shot at a Wild Card and any hope of anything.

                  Well, the Mets' pitching staff save "Please Don't Name and Jinx Him" has crumpled to dust this season like an autumn leaf (or, sticking with the NFL Draft/QB metaphor above, Ryan Leaf) and on the flip side, for the first time in at least a decade (and arguably since the Piazza era) they have a shot at actually HAVING a set, stable, pretty good infield in Alonso/Rosario/Gimenez/Davis.

                  Will that work? WAY too early to say. But it gets late early in a 60-game season, so why not see if they look the part these next 40 games instead of just punting on a recent pick faster than the Browns showing Johnny Manziel the door? (And at least that was warranted, lol.)
                  Shea - did I say trade him? I said dont trade him actually. Look it up.

                  Hit .287 last year -- what about the year before and the year before that and this year so far. Do we now take a players best spurt and tag him with those numbers?

                  Yes I watched him run -- fast. So what. There have been a ton of fast players that couldnt steal a base if the stadium was empty.

                  Yep you should build with homegrown talent, but the Mets arent good enough to do that and if Rosario is the homegrown talent then I guess winning is out of the question if that is the best we got,

                  So who cares about Billy Hamilton? Why make that comparison and being that you did it shows where Rosario actually is. Why didnt you compare Rosario to Soto, Yelich, Tatis? I will tell you why because it would be ridiculous to even attempt to type that.................so you go to someone that has not been a good player. Way to get an easy win for you I guess.

                  So you want your infield to be Alonso/Rosario/Gimenez/Davis? So we just wont play defense I guess and hope they all hit .400 to make up for it.

                  3 of those players are not good with the glove and you want that to be the infield. Fascinating.


                  I, unlike some can look at a player and remove what is says on the front of his shirt, take off the rose colored glasses and be honest with what we have. I dont care how old he is, or how bad another player is so I can compare him to. I dont care what scouts said or what he is suppose to be.


                  So I will ask for the 11th time in the last week -- What does Amed Rosario excel at on the baseball field. There has been no answer yet from all the Rosario defenders....no answer at all.

                  Ask me about Nimmo and I can say he gets on base at a high rate, Alonso has exceptional power, deGrom is a great pitcher. Even JD Davis as a tangible skill -- he can hit...clearly.

                  Yet when I ask what is does Rosario excel at .........................................crickets. I get his age, I get Billy Hamilton, I get home grown, useless speed, he hit .287 last year and billy hamilton didnt, Pauly Paradox, Ryan Leaf, politics, Shakespere, lots of words but nothing concrete.


                  So tell me what do we point at as aaaahhhhhhhh Rosario is really good at ____________________________________.

                  Maybe I will get an answer before Haley's Comet does a drive by.

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                  • Originally posted by Paulypal View Post

                    Agreed I forgot about Tatis. He is a dynamic player for sure. Too bad he is on the west coast and we cant watch him regularly. Probably a little easier for you

                    On another note - if Soto played 162 against the Mets he would pass Bonds 762 by next June.
                    Indeed. The Padres are not only on a local cable channel, the majority of their games aren't taking place after bedtime. The latter definitely makes things more difficult to follow when east, as we all know from those western road trips. On the flipside, getting home by 4p to watch the east's games is not always very practical, so I miss a lotta first pitches.

                    On a different topic, a few people have pointed out recently Nimmo's extraordinary ability to get on base. I've gotta say, you were saying last year how Nimmo knows how to get on base, which makes him ideal for leadoff. Now, I'm not sure about him being the team's best overall position player -- a discussion for a different paragraph -- but he certainly is an on-base machine. Quite often when I see him sprinting down to first on a walk or HBP, I think of you.
                    Put it in the books.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Mongoose View Post

                      Strawberry led the league in OPS+, and was consistently top 10 in most offensive categories as a Met. He was a 30/30 talent. The first half of his career is statistically similar to Reggie Jackson's. If he'd stayed sober, he'd have been a first ballot Hall of Famer.
                      That's very true about Darryl. I misspoke. I mean, they've had many players over their history who performed comparably to those youngsters in their first few seasons, before they were with the Mets. So technically, they have had players of that calibre. And even a few of them in their prime. But the fact that Straw was homegrown certainly puts him in a group by himself, and he was surely on track for Cooperstown for several years.
                      Put it in the books.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Mongoose View Post

                        After a while, responding to the same question, over and over, gets tiresome. He excels at raw physical ability. He's had the misfortune of winding up in an organization famously deficient at getting the most out of its players' raw ability.

                        He had a good season last year, at 23, by any reasonable metric. Unlike most shortstops who put up those numbers, everybody knows he can do better. It's kind of like investing in a future. It's possible that by next season, a new development team will be in place, which can better realize its players' abilities. Considering it will cost nothing, I really want to retain Amed Rosario, so we can maybe see a flower come to full bloom. Not a very macho analogy, but it's the first that comes to mind, and this is a post, not an essay.

                        He's already on the Mets. We're not talking about making any moves here. I don't know why this is being so hotly debated.
                        Maybe its tiresome but you still did not answer. Raw physical ability is not a baseball skill. Hitting, throwing, hitting for power, defense, base stealing are all baseball skills. I am not blaming the Mets for not having what it takes. Tim Tebow also has raw physical ability but that doesnt mean it is baseball applicable.

                        I dont see what other see in Rosario and never have. His ceiling in my opinion is low.

                        I also didnt say trade Rosario right now either.

                        He is hotly debated because he is on the Mets and he is probably (in my opinion) one of the most overrated prospects to come out of the Met farm system (that is going some), and others feel differently. Hence the debate.

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                        • Originally posted by Paulypal View Post

                          Maybe its tiresome but you still did not answer. Raw physical ability is not a baseball skill. Hitting, throwing, hitting for power, defense, base stealing are all baseball skills. I am not blaming the Mets for not having what it takes. Tim Tebow also has raw physical ability but that doesnt mean it is baseball applicable.
                          The Phillies had guys who had raw physical ability like Dominic Brown, a top prospect, but he could never translate his skills towards hitting baseballs and making adjustments at the major league level. The Marlins have the same ongoing issues with Lewis Brinson, who they got from the Christian Yelich trade.
                          The Mets have the best, smartest fans in baseball.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Blue387 View Post

                            The Phillies had guys who had raw physical ability like Dominic Brown, a top prospect, but he could never translate his skills towards hitting baseballs and making adjustments at the major league level. The Marlins have the same ongoing issues with Lewis Brinson, who they got from the Christian Yelich trade.
                            Agreed. Plenty of great athletes couldnt translate it to baseball.

                            Rosario isnt a terrible player so he has used his physical tools to some degree. I think his physical tools and his baseball skills have a much lower ceiling. That is my point with all this. He is not someone I look at and feel/hope he will be around for the next 10 years because he makes the Mets a better team.

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                            • Originally posted by Paulypal View Post

                              Agreed. Plenty of great athletes couldnt translate it to baseball.

                              Rosario isnt a terrible player so he has used his physical tools to some degree. I think his physical tools and his baseball skills have a much lower ceiling. That is my point with all this. He is not someone I look at and feel/hope he will be around for the next 10 years because he makes the Mets a better team.
                              10 years is a long time. I'm not sure we can say that about anyone currently on the team. deGrom will be retired by then in all likelihood. Maybe Alonso and Gimenez. That will depend on how good they really are. Is Alonso the next David Wright (pre-injury), or Adam Dunn? It is hard to tell at this point, but he does look like he is learning plate discipline and not just trying to hit a monster home run every at bat. He is also likable and good with the media which are two pluses in his favor.

                              Beck to the original "the Mets never had anyone as good as Soto claim" a case can be made for both David Wright and Darryl Strawberry. Both players were talented on both sides of the plate and well on their way to Cooperstown before injury (Wright) and substance abuse (Strawberry) curtailed their careers. Wright might still get in some day.

                              Strawberry still has one of the smoothest swings I have ever seen.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by milladrive View Post

                                Indeed. The Padres are not only on a local cable channel, the majority of their games aren't taking place after bedtime. The latter definitely makes things more difficult to follow when east, as we all know from those western road trips. On the flipside, getting home by 4p to watch the east's games is not always very practical, so I miss a lotta first pitches.

                                On a different topic, a few people have pointed out recently Nimmo's extraordinary ability to get on base. I've gotta say, you were saying last year how Nimmo knows how to get on base, which makes him ideal for leadoff. Now, I'm not sure about him being the team's best overall position player -- a discussion for a different paragraph -- but he certainly is an on-base machine. Quite often when I see him sprinting down to first on a walk or HBP, I think of you.
                                Nimmo's OBP thus far is .447 for 2020 and .392 for his career. He has a skill to get on base without a doubt. His OBP is .138 pts higher than his BA.

                                I hope he never plays CF again though - he is out of position there and it shows. He can play a corner but CF is beyond him.

                                If you watch games (I know you do), and look at the numbers it doesnt take much to figure out who contributes and who doesnt. Nimmo brings the skill of making a lot less outs than most to the table.

                                Conforto is another guy seemingly putting it together. When he first started we talked about him being their #3 hitter for a decade. We may be on our way to seeing that. Conforto's issue has always been he went into this cold streaks for weeks at a time.


                                Nimmo getting on base with Alonso, Conforto behind him can generate some runs. I know most teams put their best hitter in the #2 spot now but I would still like to see a guy with speed that can handle the bat hitting behind Nimmo and in front of Conforto/Alonso. I am hoping Gimenez is that guy. I always like to see a speed threat on the bases when a power hitter was up.

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