Lastings Milledge rips Mets again

[moebarguy]

age has nothin to do with it its your maturity level

look at david wright he came up young to

Wright is a very special player...not many players come up and instantly become the leader of the team.

[metsfan28]

Lo Duca or Milledge?

I didn't want Lo Duca back, but I would have taken him if that meant not trading Milledge.

If you're talking about Milledge, I don't think he'll have a bad season. And even if he has a mediocre season, he's still 23.

age has nothin to do with it its your maturity level

look at david wright he came up young to

[moebarguy]

i dont think youll be sayin that when he doesnt do so well with the nats either

Lo Duca or Milledge?

I didn't want Lo Duca back, but I would have taken him if that meant not trading Milledge.

If you're talking about Milledge, I don't think he'll have a bad season. And even if he has a mediocre season, he's still 23.

[NYMets523]

I agree with you that Schneider is better defensively, and that he's right there with Lo Duca offensively, but we still surrendered Milledge. It was an unnecessary trade.

Milledge was a punk whose "me-against-the-world" was there from the day they drafted him. A Nats beat writer said the whole issue with his Mets teammates disliking him was overblown.

I'd rather the Mets have traded him for someone like Josh Barfield but that would have left 2 spots empty. Trading Milledge filled two spots with players who will, combined, have just as many Win Shares as L Millz.

[metsfan28]

I agree with you that Schneider is better defensively, and that he's right there with Lo Duca offensively, but we still surrendered Milledge. It was an unnecessary trade.

i dont think youll be sayin that when he doesnt do so well with the nats either

[Dalkowski110]

"but we still surrendered Milledge."

I've heard enough direct quotes from players in the '06 and '07 clubhouses...and not veterans, either, Minor Leaguers, too...to know that surrendering Milledge was a good thing. His attitude problems, while not physical in nature, were disruptive in the extreme. They brought in Henderson to try and control him, Henderson worked at doing that but only that, so he had to go.

[moebarguy]

"I don't remember Lo Duca stunting the growth of any pitcher."

I don't remember Schneider doing the same, either.

"offensively no."

See above. OBP is basically a representation of how many times you DON'T make an out. Considering that not only was Schneider better than Lo Duca at not making an out in 2007, but also better than Lo Duca vs. league average at not making an out in 2007, I don't see how you can say this. It's not like either year was an aberration. Indeed, Lo Duca's OBP has been declining for a while. Schneider's has been about the same and not expected to take a sudden nosedive.

I agree with you that Schneider is better defensively, and that he's right there with Lo Duca offensively, but we still surrendered Milledge. It was an unnecessary trade.

[Dalkowski110]

Fair enough on Lo Duca. However, one thing stands out...

"Brian Schneider: .242 BA, .319 OBP, .344 SLG, 5 HR, 37 RBI, 34 R, and 2 SB"

Schneider hasn't had an OBP that low since 2003. In fact, he hasn't had an OBP below .320 except for his 2000 (rookie year) and 2003 seasons. I honestly see him doing a little better at working walks.

"I really think that people underestimate the loss of Milledge..."

The man is pure clubhouse poison. They'll find it out in Washington and likely trade him for pitching to some team that needs hitting. I think he'll learn to hit a breaking ball. However, I also think he'll be traded from team to team until he either grows up (I really bet his Nats teammates like him trying to start a war with the Mets...) or some team like Kansas City that can't afford to stock up good attitudes needs him.

[NYMets523]

Defensively, yes, offensively no. But Milledge + Lo Duca > to Church + Schneider.

Lo Duca was going downhill. He was also a distraction and annoyance. Milledge can't hit a breaking ball either.

[moebarguy]

Dalkowski110: That was an off-year in terms of OB for Lo Duca. His career OBP of .338 confirms that.

Here are some projections from Baseball Prospectus...

Brian Schneider: .242 BA, .319 OBP, .344 SLG, 5 HR, 37 RBI, 34 R, and 2 SB
Paul Lo Duca: .279 BA, .324 OBP, .375 SLG, 4 HR, 38 RBI, 36 R, and 2 SB
Lastings Milledge: .290 BA, .359 OBP, .480 SLG, 19 HR, 73 RBI, 85 R, and 22 SB
Ryan Church: .267 BA, .349 OBP, .472 SLG, 18 HR, 69 RBI, 64 R, and 6 SB

Sure, some of Milledge's and Church's stats match up, but Milledge is 6 years younger, and much cheaper. Lo Duca is projected to have slightly better numbers on a much worse team, plus he would not have cost us surrendering Milledge. Heck, even splitting Ramon Castro with a FA defensive catcher would have been a better move since we could have kept Milledge. I really think that people underestimate the loss of Milledge...

[Dalkowski110]

"I don't remember Lo Duca stunting the growth of any pitcher."

I don't remember Schneider doing the same, either.

"offensively no."

See above. OBP is basically a representation of how many times you DON'T make an out. Considering that not only was Schneider better than Lo Duca at not making an out in 2007, but also better than Lo Duca vs. league average at not making an out in 2007, I don't see how you can say this. It's not like either year was an aberration. Indeed, Lo Duca's OBP has been declining for a while. Schneider's has been about the same and not expected to take a sudden nosedive.

[moebarguy]

If you invest $140 million or so in a pitcher, have two still young pitchers as key parts of your rotation, it pays to have a very good catcher behind the plate. They can afford his bat at #8 if the first 7 are pulling their weight.

I don't remember Lo Duca stunting the growth of any pitcher. Considering Maine and Perez were great last season says something about Lo Duca -- sure, it says much more about Peterson, but it just shows that Lo Duca wasn't just a slouch.

It's not a matter of where Schneider bats in the lineup or how he effects the offense, it's still the fact that we traded an extremely talented player for a all-defense catcher and a platoon outfielder.

[moebarguy]

He's still an improvement over Lo Duca.

Defensively, yes, offensively no. But Milledge + Lo Duca > to Church + Schneider.

[Dalkowski110]

"It's almost like having a far inferior Rey Ordonez behind the dish."

I'd call that an extreme exaggeration. Ordonez could barely hit his own weight, and that was before he started bulking up (aka 'roiding). Schneider has managed to hit about .250-.260 with consistency but had a real down year last year. Part of this should be attributed to bad luck. Much as pitchers have a BABIP, so do hitters, though I'm sure you're aware of this. I'm merely explaining how it works for the benefit of anyone else who is curious. Generally, with a pitcher, BABIP (Batting Average on Balls in Play) reflects batting average against of any fair ball that the batter makes contact with EXCEPT for homeruns. The average BABIP is about .280-.290 for a pitcher. Anything inordinately higher or lower reflects terrible luck on the part of the pitcher in the former case (for example, Roger Craig's years with the Mets) or really lucky in the latter case (for example, Randy Jones with the Padres...a more recent example would be the Mariners' Carlos Silva).

With hitters, BABIP is kinda turned around, but it's the same basic principle. This time, the HIGHER the BABIP, the luckier the guy is. Over the long term, BA and BABIP for a hitter should be within 20-25 points of each other. Look at any hitter with a long career, no matter how good or bad, and this pattern repeats itself (although out of total curiosity, I looked at Rey Ordonez in some of his worst seasons and he was so incredibly unlucky that his career BA/BABIP split is a full thirty points! It would actually be more if he didn't have that 2003 season with Tampa Bay where he got REALLY lucky.).

Now, let's look at Brian Schneider. He's actually been a somewhat unlucky hitter throughout his career, with a BA of .252 and a BABIP of .281. That's still within reason, though. However, it stems from two REALLY unlucky seasons: 2003 (.230 BA with a .269 BABIP...compare this to 2004 where he hits .257 with a .275 BABIP) and 2006 (.255 with a .294 BABIP). So what about '07? Well, Schneider is reasonably represented against right-handed pitching (.244 BA and a .260 BABIP), but is pretty unlucky against left-handed pitching (.212 BA, but a .242 BABIP).

Something else Schneider has that Rey Ordonez never did is the ability to get on base. Despite a miserable BA (which as we've seen can partially be chalked up to bad luck vs. lefty pitchers), he still manages a .326 OBP. That's not bad, considering the League Average is .334. And Paul Lo Duca's OBP? .311. That's right...Schneider actually got on base more than Lo Duca (and if you're curious about his BABIP, he's actually pretty lucky...a .266 BA with a .263 BABIP!). And Rey Ordonez? Well, he managed a .328 OBP one year with Tampa Bay to put him a point over league average, but it was an aberration in the extreme (as was the entire year).

[metfan13]

Dal, nice work finding those stats. Regardless, I'm still not entirely convinced that he's not dead weight. It's almost like having a far inferior Rey Ordonez behind the dish.

If you invest $140 million or so in a pitcher, have two still young pitchers as key parts of your rotation, it pays to have a very good catcher behind the plate. They can afford his bat at #8 if the first 7 are pulling their weight.