Why not Green?

[The Commissioner]

I realize that he was immensely unpopular when he played for the Mets, but why were the fans so eager to see him go? Yes, I understand that it would have been silly for the Mets to have picked up his option for 2008. That would have been too much cash. However, did they even tender him and offer after declining his option? Last year everyone wanted Green gone. Now that Gomez and Milledge have been traded, a rash of injuries to an already depleted outfield has occurred, and Degaldo is having problems, why would they not want to try to reacquire his services? He'll never again be the player he once was in L.A. or Toronto. That is true. Still, let's not forget he was a .291 hitter last season (.407 in the last month), had double figures in steals (91.7% success rate), and despite his unwarranted reputation of being an atrocious fielder (in spite of being only two years removed from a perfect season with the glove) only committed 4 errors in 290+ chances. He is a viable option at each outfield position as well as at first base and feasts off of right handed pitching. The down side to having him on the roster would be...?

[metfan13]

Meta can get as much production in LF from an Easley/Anderson platoon until Alou returns. With Endy around for spot starts and defense they'll be ok.

[Dalkowski110]

"Why not Green?"

In a sentence? Because he said he was retiring.

In another two sentences? When you don't offer salary arbitration to a player and they're still a free agent, you can't sign them until May 1, I believe. That'd not only be unfair to the Mets, but unfair to Green.

[metsfan28]

"Why not Green?"

In a sentence? Because he said he was retiring.

In another two sentences? When you don't offer salary arbitration to a player and they're still a free agent, you can't sign them until May 1, I believe. That'd not only be unfair to the Mets, but unfair to Green.

i think he did

[metssincekindergarten]

i think he did

He announced his retirement about two weeks ago. He said that he wanted to play on the West Coast, and when none of the teams in either league (on the WC) showed interest, he packed it in.

[The Commissioner]

"Why not Green?"

In a sentence? Because he said he was retiring.

Yes, as we all know "retirement" from professional athletics always tends to be a permanent irreversible affair. It would be unprecedented for someone to change their mind over this.

However, that's not what I was asking. While I don't doubt that Green will in all likelihood stay retired, did the Mets even make any effort to retain his services? Was Green completely set on playing for a West Coast ballclub or could he have been lured back? (Yes I know this all purely hypothetical considering that Green is most certainly no Ryan Church and the Mets are far better off without him).

In another two sentences? When you don't offer salary arbitration to a player and they're still a free agent, you can't sign them until May 1, I believe. That'd not only be unfair to the Mets, but unfair to Green.

I believe that the May 1st date was eliminated under the October 2006 Collective Bargaining Agreement.

[Dalkowski110]

"Was Green completely set on playing for a West Coast ballclub[...]?"

Yes. He was. He left on relatively poor terms with the Mets and it was pretty much Giants, Dodgers, Angels, or bust (oddly, you'd think the Padres would be a good fit for Green, but he apparently wasn't interested in them).

"Yes, as we all know 'retirement' from professional athletics always tends to be a permanent irreversible affair. It would be unprecedented for someone to change their mind over this."

Okay, great, you throw this sarcastic statement out there and then...

"While I don't doubt that Green will in all likelihood stay retired[...]"

This makes your sarcasm both unwelcome and completely unnecessary since you yourself don't even believe he'll come out of retirement.

"I believe that the May 1st date was eliminated under the October 2006 Collective Bargaining Agreement."

Are you sure? A lot of papers referenced it when Glavine was not offered arbitration.

[NJMetfan4life]

I'd like to see him at first base. He won't get a shot in the outfield, because of the depth.

[moebarguy]

Green ain't coming back. I thought about it too, briefly, but it just doesn't make any sense at all...

[The Commissioner]

This makes your sarcasm both unwelcome and completely unnecessary since you yourself don't even believe he'll come out of retirement.

Lighten up, Francis.

I'll try to explain this better since I am apparently incapable of clarity. Whether I personally believe Green will "un-retire" is a moot point regarding whether he actually does so or not. So far I have not been the world's leading prognosticator on Shawn Green. (Although I might add that I was almost unanimously laughed/attacked/criticized off of these boards when I predicted in August that Green would finish 2007 with a higher batting average than Lastings Milledge. ) It also doesn't explain the fans were so eager to be rid of him as per my original question. I understand that most here feel the team is vastly better off without him on the roster right now, but I am simply asking for a more in depth discussion as to why.

Are you sure? A lot of papers referenced it when Glavine was not offered arbitration.

Yes.

[The Commissioner]

Green ain't coming back. I thought about it too, briefly, but it just doesn't make any sense at all...

That's fair enough. Could you please expound on why it doesn't make any sense, though?

[Dalkowski110]

"It also doesn't explain the fans were so eager to be rid of him as per my original question. I understand that most here feel the team is vastly better off without him on the roster right now, but I am simply asking for a more in depth discussion as to why."

In that case, you'll get it. Even before he came here, Green had somewhat of a reputation, be it real or imagined, as being a selfish jerk and a dog from his LA and Arizona days. What probably reinforced that in the minds of the fans was his horrible fielding in 2006 when he first got to the Mets.

In 2007, Green hit .195/.264/.288 against left-handed pitching (with a pretty bad .236 BABIP, as well). When in right field (though admittedly not first base), the general concensus was that he looked like he was dogging it. Ditto toward running the bases. Long strides toward the ball/on the basepaths or not, that was the concensus. Green was about average as a fielder...though his FP was actually pretty good and his RF was just above average, his RF/9 was below average. At this point in his career had he chosen not to retire, he likely would've primarily played against righties.

[metfan13]

He's a lefthanded batter who doesn't hit lefties. OUr starting RF and 1B are both lefthanded batters who hit righties well. Green has little to no value as a back-up to them. Green has played all of 45 games in LF in his career. He's not a LF and therefore not a better solution to fill in for Alou than our in house guys.

[Joltin Joe Giradio]

I'd try to get Mclouth from the Pirates. PIT doesn't seem to think of him as more than a 4th OF type. He has been great this spring so that might drive his price up, that's the only bad thing about it. There's a real chance that Nyjer Morgan could overtake him despite a terrible offensive showing.

We all know that they are the Pirates, so no harm in trying to acquire him, especially if Mclouth loses the competition for CF.

[The Commissioner]

In that case, you'll get it. Even before he came here, Green had somewhat of a reputation, be it real or imagined, as being a selfish jerk and a dog from his LA and Arizona days.

I have honestly never heard that in reference to Green. I know that you don't intend it in that manner (I'm not being sarcastic here. I mean that. ), and am hopeful that no one else in the Mets forum does, but a quick Google search revealed that almost every time Green's name was mentioned along with the word "selfish" there was a religious connotation directly attached. I have a feeling that this is probably unfortunately where (and so therefore I'd say "be it imagined") this ugly reputation originally stemmed from.

What probably reinforced that in the minds of the fans was his horrible fielding in 2006 when he first got to the Mets.

That's certainly understandable. The guy made only two total errors dating back to 2004 with Arizona. Then he comes over to the Mets and suddenly commits three miscues in only 32 games. That had to bother fans a lot. Still, it just seems odd the amount of, if not all out vitriol, just general bad will that was directed towards him during his tenure here.

Don't forget he also ground into 8 double plays and batted only .257 over the last part of 2006. I can see how that would have left a sour taste in fans' mouths. However, I would have thought that he would have been redeemed by hitting over .300 in the playoffs that year. Keep in mind that David Wright is pretty much universally beloved by fans and batted only .160 vs. the Cardinals.

In 2007, Green hit .195/.264/.288 against left-handed pitching (with a pretty bad .236 BABIP, as well).

That's definitely true, Green was horrible versus lefties in 2007. However, saying that makes it sound as if half the time he was horrible (versus lefties) and half tolerable (versus righties). The truth is that he was absolutely abysmal versus lefties, but completely tore it up versus righties whom he faced almost three times more often.

When in right field (though admittedly not first base), the general concensus was that he looked like he was dogging it. Ditto toward running the bases. Long strides toward the ball/on the basepaths or not, that was the concensus. Green was about average as a fielder...though his FP was actually pretty good and his RF was just above average, his RF/9 was below average. At this point in his career had he chosen not to retire, he likely would've primarily played against righties.

"Looked" is the operative word here. Unfortunately, it seems as if many ballplayers with similar body types to Green (Fred Mcgriff and Darryl Strawberry are two that immediately pop to mind) always tend to appear to be lazy on the base-paths or out in the field. Being 6'4 and not juiced up apparently doesn't lend itself to looking as if you are hustling. However, his 11 steals, 30 doubles, and 62 times crossing the plate belie that initial impression. Heck, the fact that he reached base six times last year on what were ruled errors shows that he was running out balls... which is more than could be said for some of his teammates at times. Perhaps I'm personally biased here, but I had always found Mets fans to be much more intelligent and perceptive than the average run of the mill fan. I find it hard to believe that they would fall into that trap. That's why I just don't get why he was so disliked across the board.