Tweak Or Blow Up ?, Too Early or Hopeless ?

[whoisonit]

The New York Mets Are A Seriously Flawed Team ... Or Are They ?.

Flawed in the personel department, seemingly flawed in the personality departmant.

-Is it too early in the season to begin to voice concerns over the direction of this team, they'll be fine ?
or
-Must fans accept the fact that the team as presently constituted can not dominate and will not win anything of consequense ? Thus we should just be happy they will be, basically, no more than a competative team ?

Does the 2008 Met team need some minor tweaking here & there, just like any other great team, it's not a big deal ?
or
Does this team need major, dramatic, headline grabbing, changes in both key personel and multiple personel ?

[whoisonit]

Worry, the team is hopelessly mediocre and flawed. Big & multiple changes must be made now.

- Delgado must be released. This single move, on it's own, may have more of an impact on the club than even a managerial change. Delgado is the acknowledged leader in the clubhouse. His lethargic style has infected the team. As a key lineup bat, whether at 5 or 6, he is dead wood, affecting how the others are pitched to. His fielding was never his strong point, now it has deteriorated to the point of being an embarrasment. This move will rock the clubhouse from it's "bored" slumber like an atom bomb.

- Reyes must grow up. This young man needs to be told that joy comes from playing ML baseball in a professional manner. Celebrations are for winning games, not sacrificing a runner over. The re-appearence of Reyes's unnessasary, bush league, hand celebrations and dugout dancing has coincided with the re-emergence of slopy play and mental mistakes. Who is going to mentor this boy ?

- Hielman must be moved. This is Sisk II. It will be impossible for this guy to take the mound at Shea. No man would be uneffected by what awaits this season's poster child of failure. On this, I can no longer criticise the fans for booing. It's sends a message to management. Hielman will never right his ship as a Met. It's over. Acknowldge this fact of life and get WHOMEVER or WHATEVER you can for him.

-Sosa may have to go too. Can he be sent down ? I don't know his status. He's not performing at an acceptable level. Move him down for fixing, or out alltogether.

-Drop Cassanova. Send a message that styling is unaceptable. Need a backup ? Sign Piazza. That's not a joke.

-Fire Peterson. Perez is turning back into a pumpkin. The relief pitchers are a disaster. He's been here a long, long, long time. His non-successes far outnumber his successes. Time for a fresh face, new approach.

- Fire Sandy Alomar. This is the mentor for the young latin players ? Reyes play has deteriorated since his arrival. Some players feel comfortable with him ? Let's remove their comfort zone. A little edgeness and unease never hurt anyone.

-Replace Willie. It has to be the rite guy. Who is that ? Are the players too comfortable around HoJo ? That won't help. The move would have to be INSPIRED. I want Wally Backman in NY. Forget the PC crap. This guy is the next Billy Martin, if he can only get another shot. Randolph is not leading this team, he seems an after-thought to the players. What happened to the guy who changed a culture of loosing around in 2006 ? I wish you well Willie, I don't know why it has all gone so wrong.

-Find Pitching. Relief, relief, relief. If Omar can't do it, find someone who can. Scour the Independent leagues, Mexico, Japan, Little Leagues. Anyone is better than what we have.

- Keep Pagan in the Lineup. He brings youth & speed, just what the team needs. He plays like he has something to prove. This is what the team REALLY needs. He makes Endy available for a trade.

- Marlon Anderson ? This year's Mets may be last years Dodgers. 1 for 15 is not gonna cut it.

[NY16CATCHER]

As for what to do now...the options are several. All of them involve shaking up the dynamic a bit.

1. Fire Willie. Sometimes a manager getting fired makes a ball club pull together, especially a veteran team. It's happened before. And maybe a new voice at the helm and a new message might get the ship pointed in the right direction.

2. Fire Peterson. (should have happened last season). Just like firing Rick Down last season when they weren't hitting, you take the position coach to task for the failures of the players under him.

3. Big time roster move. DFA Delgado and Heilman and/or make a trade of some importance. Shake it up.

4. Fire Omar. He put this team together. Maybe he bears some responsibility for its on field showing.

The bottom line is this club has played sub .500 baseball since last Memorial Day. For all the expectations and talent, that's pathetic.

[NJMetfan4life]

- Reyes must grow up. This young man needs to be told that joy comes from playing ML baseball in a professional manner. Celebrations are for winning games, not sacrificing a runner over. The re-appearence of Reyes's unnessasary, bush league, hand celebrations and dugout dancing has coincided with the re-emergence of slopy play and mental mistakes. Who is going to mentor this boy ?

Lay-off him. He's doing well so far.

-Drop Cassanova. Send a message that styling is unaceptable. Need a backup ? Sign Piazza. That's not a joke.

Agreed 100%

- Fire Sandy Alomar. This is the mentor for the young latin players ? Reyes play has deteriorated since his arrival. Some players feel comfortable with him ? Let's remove their comfort zone. A little edgeness and unease never hurt anyone

.

Really? Fire the 3rd base coach? What next? Fire the Hot Dog Vendors?

-Find Pitching. Relief, relief, relief. If Omar can't do it, find someone who can. Scour the Independent leagues, Mexico, Japan, Little Leagues. Anyone is better than what we have.

- Keep Pagan in the Lineup. He brings youth & speed, just what the team needs. He plays like he has something to prove. This is what the team REALLY needs. He makes Endy available for a trade.

Same as Piazza thing.

Marlon Anderson ? This year's Mets may be last years Dodgers. 1 for 15 is not gonna cut it.

What about his Home run last night?

[whoisonit]

Lay-off him. He's doing well so far.

He's getting careless lately. He can be an all time great, if, if, if.

Fire the 3rd base coach?

Yes, absolutely. But only in conjuntion with a managerial change too. Firing the 3rd base coach alone is rather silly.

What next?

Hire a new one.

Fire the Hot Dog Vendors?

Lay off them. I get hungry when we loose too.

What about his Home run last night?

I don't know. What about it ? Does it mean he turned it around ? I don't know what's the best thing to do about Anderson. He was atrocious with the Dodgers last year in the first half, then was money in the bank for us in the second half. 1 for 15 is brutal for a PH. Can we wait until July for him to come around ? I don't think that's a good idea. If giving him a couple of starts will help him work out the kinks, it should happen fast. We need his 'last season's' bat off the bench, not what we've gotten so far.
I'm by no means advocating releasing him at this point. But I'm not advocating against it either.

[NJMetfan4life]

You are great at taking words out of context.

[NYMets523]

-Find Pitching. Relief, relief, relief. If Omar can't do it, find someone who can. Scour the Independent leagues, Mexico, Japan, Little Leagues. Anyone is better than what we have.

Like relief pitching is just growing on trees. Who do you want him to sign? Mike Stanton? That's the only guy available. Omar has drafted college relievers the past few years. He's building up a supply.

To me, they need a major shakeup on the roster whether it's releasing Delgado or demoting/DFA'ing Aaron Heilman. I'm always in favor of firing Willie but we have to wait at least until May for that to be possible.

[whoisonit]

Like relief pitching is just growing on trees. Who do you want him to sign? Mike Stanton? That's the only guy available.

Well, that's a reasonable topic starter. Did I say reasonable ? Sorry, I meant ridiculous.

Omar has drafted college relievers the past few years. He's building up a supply.

That's nice. I'm more interested in this season than 2011. So I'll look you up on this point in 3 years.

[jsmets92]

That's nice. I'm more interested in this season than 2011. So I'll look you up on this point in 3 years.

As seen with Joe Smith, Chad Cordero and Huston Street among others, a well groomed college reliever can be servicable within a year or two of being drafted.

That said, They are trying to convert Brant Rustich into a starter for the time being, and guys like Eric Niesen and Stephen Clyne are struggling in single-A, albeit in limited appearances. A guy like Eddie Kunz, however, could make an impact as soon as this year if he has sucess at AA.

[NYMets523]

[QUOTE=whoisonit;1173167]

That's nice. I'm more interested in this season than 2011. So I'll look you up on this point in 3 years.

Draftees don't go get to the big leagues several months after they're drafted like Joba Chamberlain. The point is Minaya knows the bullpen is a weakness and he's attempting to build up a supply of relievers in the draft so he doesn't have to give out 2 years to Octavio Dotel.

[whoisonit]

As seen with Joe Smith, Chad Cordero and Huston Street among others, a well groomed college reliever can be servicable within a year or two of being drafted.

That said, They are trying to convert Brant Rustich into a starter for the time being, and guys like Eric Niesen and Stephen Clyne are struggling in single-A, albeit in limited appearances. A guy like Eddie Kunz, however, could make an impact as soon as this year if he has sucess at AA.

Good point re Street, Cordero, etc... Unfortunately, Mets have none ready to help now.

[whoisonit]

Draftees don't go get to the big leagues several months after they're drafted like Joba Chamberlain.

Never said they did. In fact, NOBODY in the thread did. In fact, I don't believe I've encountered a poster anywhere on BB-F that said they did.

The point is Minaya knows the bullpen is a weakness and he's attempting to build up a supply of relievers in the draft so he doesn't have to give out 2 years to Octavio Dotel.

The point being ? The only issues being addressed by myself and others are what is needed now and what we would like to see done now. Not sure what this is in reference to.

[NYMets523]

So you want him to give Scott Linebrink or David Riske horrible contracts just so they have something now? You can't trade for the good relievers and the ones available suck. He's at least making an effort to preven this from being a problem in the future.

[whoisonit]

So you want him to give Scott Linebrink or David Riske horrible contracts just so they have something now?

Please show me where I said anything about these players ... or, please show me ANY post ANYWHERE on BB-F where I so much as mention these two men.

You can't trade for the good relievers and the ones available suck.

You can't trade for relievers ? That's interesting, but an all together different disscusion. 2 points on the quoted statement:
1) please show me ANY post in this thread that proposed a trade for a specific reliever.
2) please show me ANY post that says we should trade for any relievers.

[NYMets523]

Please show me where I said anything about these players ... or, please show me ANY post ANYWHERE on BB-F where I so much as mention these two men.

I'm throwing out names of above average relievers that were available. You wanted Omar to build a better bullpen yet you fail to mention WHO he should have signed or traded for. Would you want one of them for 2 or 3 years?

You can't trade for relievers ? That's interesting, but an all together different disscusion. 2 points on the quoted statement:
1) please show me ANY post in this thread that proposed a trade for a specific reliever.
2) please show me ANY post that says we should trade for any relievers.

Let me rephrase that. It is very hard to acquire good relievers in a trade. Especially when you traded your best prospects for a starting pitcher.

How is it a different discussion. You say Omar should have build a strong bullpen. I'm asking you who he should have acquired. It's easy to say he should have made a facet of the team better, but you have to say he should have done so by acquiring a specific player.