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Why do you think the Mets front office continues to be stupid?

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  • Why do you think the Mets front office continues to be stupid?

    I am not claiming to be anything but a big fan of baseball who has followed baseball since I was 13 or 14. Over the last few years, starting in around 2001/2002, the team continues to make incredibly poor personnel moves that make me shake my head.

    I am not going to recount every very obviously bad move that they have made. What's done is done. However, Omar is showing that he is just as bad as his predecessors. So the question is, why do the Wilpons continue to hire people who don't know baseball as GMs? Or is the problem the Wilpons themselves?

    The latest move with Heilman to the pen, and Bannister to the rotation - making the starting 5: Pedro, Glavine, Trax, Zambrano, Bannister - shows yet again how short-sighted and moronic the front office of this team is. Why trade away Seo and Benson unless you're going to get more than fair value back? In neither case did the Mets come out the winner.

    I understand that Benson was traded because of his wife, but he was married to her when the Mets acquired him, so why did they sign him if his wife bothered them? So you can chalk it up once again to short-sighted idiots running the team.

    I still think the Braves will win the division again this year.

  • #2
    They had to sign Benson because of the trade they made to get him.
    It was all about saving face. If they didnt' sign him then that would admit that they made a mistake. So they were FORCED to sign him, then give him boqu dollars to top it off.

    The Heilman to the bullpen move isn't so bad.
    Bannister has proved himself this spring and he deserves his shot.
    Heilman did very well out of the pen so they are going to go back to that.

    The Seo deal wasn't bad because it brought them Dauner who seems to have a good make-up for a closer/setup guy.

    Omar Minaya is a good baseball guy and he's not stupid.
    What the problem is, is that he now has all this money at his disposal and he's using every penny of it.
    "After my fourth season I asked for $43,000 and General Manager Ed Barrow told me, 'Young man, do you realize Lou Gehrig, a 16-year-man, is playing for only $44,000?' I said, Mr. Barrow, there is only one answer to that - Mr. Gehrig is terribly underpaid."- Yankees outfielder Joe DiMaggio

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by TonyStarks
      They had to sign Benson because of the trade they made to get him.
      It was all about saving face. If they didnt' sign him then that would admit that they made a mistake. So they were FORCED to sign him, then give him boqu dollars to top it off.

      The Heilman to the bullpen move isn't so bad.
      Bannister has proved himself this spring and he deserves his shot.
      Heilman did very well out of the pen so they are going to go back to that.

      The Seo deal wasn't bad because it brought them Dauner who seems to have a good make-up for a closer/setup guy.

      Omar Minaya is a good baseball guy and he's not stupid.
      What the problem is, is that he now has all this money at his disposal and he's using every penny of it.
      I agree 100%

      Comment


      • #4
        I'm willing to give Omar the benefit of the doubt.

        Until I see what the final results are for 2006, I'll refrain from passing judgement.
        "Heroes are people who are all good with no bad in them. That's the way I always saw Joe DiMaggio. He was beyond question one of the greatest players of the century."

        ~Mickey Mantle

        Comment


        • #5
          I agree that they were "forced" to sign Benson, but that only makes the whole situation more stupid and shortsighted, not less. I fully acknowledge that the Benson mess belongs mostly to the Wilpons, but if Omar was intending to move Benson, he should not have moved Seo for Duaner Sanchez, who is a decent RP, but definitely not worth more than Seo as a starter. Omar turned a deep starting rotation into a very thin one while hardly improving the bullpen at all (unless you guys feel Julio is an asset...).

          You think to the moves that Omar has made, which one can you say is a good move?

          Omar is the same guy who traded Sizemore, Phillips, and Lee to CLEV for a few months of Colon.

          So far, on a scale of 1 to 10 in terms of baseball smarts being shown as a Mets GM, I give Omar a 3. Certainly, comparing him to the smart GM's like Epstein and Beane is like comparing Forrest Gump to Albert Einstein.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Joltin Joe Giradio
            I agree that they were "forced" to sign Benson, but that only makes the whole situation more stupid and shortsighted, not less. I fully acknowledge that the Benson mess belongs mostly to the Wilpons, but if Omar was intending to move Benson, he should not have moved Seo for Duaner Sanchez, who is a decent RP, but definitely not worth more than Seo as a starter. Omar turned a deep starting rotation into a very thin one while hardly improving the bullpen at all (unless you guys feel Julio is an asset...).

            You think to the moves that Omar has made, which one can you say is a good move?

            Omar is the same guy who traded Sizemore, Phillips, and Lee to CLEV for a few months of Colon.

            So far, on a scale of 1 to 10 in terms of baseball smarts being shown as a Mets GM, I give Omar a 3. Certainly, comparing him to the smart GM's like Epstein and Beane is like comparing Forrest Gump to Albert Einstein.
            The Organization had to keep him. It's PR and Politics. Not keeping him would mean they admit to making a mistake. That something they wont' do.

            As for the Colon trade...that was a damn good trade for the Expos at the time. Besides no one though the Expos would still even be around so it wasn't a "dumb" move per se. It was very good for moment, but not in the long run. Besides...no one could have predicted that Sizemore and Lee would have blossomed. Brandon Phillips certainly didn't work out or hasn't worked out and he was the Prize in the deal.

            The Seo for Dauner deal was a good deal. Dauner is a young arm who has very good upside. You don't know with Seo what your getting. Remember he was down in the minors for the entire season just about. You make it sound as if this was a Kris Beson for Dauner deal. BTW, Julio is a fine arm for your bullpen. I really like the Mets bullpen with Heilman in there. Its a damn fine corps of arms.

            I think your being too harsh on Omar and you need to give him room to operate. Lets be honest here. Your Mets need to win NOW. They're window of opportunity is being held up by Pedro. So the Mets need to make all their moves for the immediate future if they are to win during his time in a Mets uniform. That's why Omar unloaded the farm for immediate fixes.

            Be patient Daniel-Son.
            "After my fourth season I asked for $43,000 and General Manager Ed Barrow told me, 'Young man, do you realize Lou Gehrig, a 16-year-man, is playing for only $44,000?' I said, Mr. Barrow, there is only one answer to that - Mr. Gehrig is terribly underpaid."- Yankees outfielder Joe DiMaggio

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by TonyStarks
              The Organization had to keep him. It's PR and Politics. Not keeping him would mean they admit to making a mistake. That something they wont' do.

              As for the Colon trade...that was a damn good trade for the Expos at the time. Besides no one though the Expos would still even be around so it wasn't a "dumb" move per se. It was very good for moment, but not in the long run. Besides...no one could have predicted that Sizemore and Lee would have blossomed. Brandon Phillips certainly didn't work out or hasn't worked out and he was the Prize in the deal.

              The Seo for Dauner deal was a good deal. Dauner is a young arm who has very good upside. You don't know with Seo what your getting. Remember he was down in the minors for the entire season just about. You make it sound as if this was a Kris Beson for Dauner deal. BTW, Julio is a fine arm for your bullpen. I really like the Mets bullpen with Heilman in there. Its a damn fine corps of arms.

              I think your being too harsh on Omar and you need to give him room to operate. Lets be honest here. Your Mets need to win NOW. They're window of opportunity is being held up by Pedro. So the Mets need to make all their moves for the immediate future if they are to win during his time in a Mets uniform. That's why Omar unloaded the farm for immediate fixes.

              Be patient Daniel-Son.
              This is Omar's team.. Let's see what happens......

              Amazin....Simply Amazin!!!
              North of the Big Apple but missing Central Fla :atthepc

              Comment


              • #8
                If the 2000 team got to the world series I think this team can do it too. This team is a better team than the one from 2000. :gt

                Comment


                • #9
                  Why do you think the Mets front office continues to be stupid?

                  Micheal Kay had Omar on his show today on ESPN radio, Omar said he put Aaron Heilman in the bullpen to be the setup man. He was asked about Jorge Julio and said " I don't know about him yet, so that means Julio and Sanchez who we gave up 2 good starters for will be pitching in the 5th, 6th, and maybe the 7th inning. Omar isn't the sharpest knive in the drawer, he better hope and pray that all of our starters are ready to go, you never have enough starting pitching but I guess when you get a guy back with a visa for a Benson or Seo thats ok with him. He looks even worst now that Pedros toe is hurt and Zambrano(why didn't they trade him) just stinks up the place, and the reason he got rid of Benson is divorcing him.
                  Lets support Gil Hodges for The Hall of Fame, a true Hall of Famer.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    It just kills me to see people justify Minaya's trades...

                    The Jorge Julio Trade
                    Jorge Julio has had one, just one, good year in his entire career. That was in 2002, when he had a 1.99 ERA, 1.21 WHIP, went 5-6, 25 Saves, and had 55 K's in 68 IP. Great rookie year. Then in 2003, he had a 4.43 ERA, 1.54 WHIP, went 0-7, 36 Saves, and had 52 K's in 62 IP. In 2004, he had a 4.57 ERA, 1.41 WHIP, went 2-5, 22 Saves, and had 70 K's in 69 IP. Finally, last year, in 2005, he had a 5.94 ERA, 1.40 WHIP, went 3-5, 0 Saves, and had 58 K's in 71 IP. Now, since he is simply a reliever for us, not a closer, just knock out those saves from 2003 to 2005 - that is the pitcher we are getting. Saves are one of the most overrated statistics in all of baseball. That cateogory is the only reason why Julio is still in the majors, because people think that since he has 83 career saves, that he is a talented pitcher. The reality of the matter is that he has a high ERA, and high WHIP, his K's have been decreasing, and he couldn't even handle being a setup guy last year. This is the guy that Minaya brings in for a solid starting pitcher like Benson? How can you possibly justify that trade? There were a handful of teams out there, even now, who could use a solid starter like Benson. But Minaya trades him for a worthless reliever...

                    The Duaner Sanchez Trade
                    While I do think that Sanchez is a decent reliever, in no way was trading Jae Seo, who went 8-2, with a 2.59 ERA, and a 1.11 WHIP last season as a starter for the Mets, a good trade. The Mets will be Sanchez's 4th team in 5 seasons, so it's not as if he's a hot commodity. Sanchez had a decent season last year with the Dodgers, with a 3.73 ERA, 71 K's in 82 IP, but lost 7 games and had a 1.35 WHIP. He tends to give up a lot of hits, and he walks people too. Lefties also hit .310 against him, so his value is pretty limited. While I think that he is a decent reliever to have, giving up a good 4th starter for him is a plain-out dumb trade.

                    Aaron Heilman to the Bullpen
                    Sure, Heilman did great in the bullpen last year, and he'll probably do well in the bullpen again this year, but for god sakes, the guy would make a very good starting pitcher. I mean, we traded Jae Seo and Kris Benson to free up a spot for him, right? We did trade two solid starting pitchers for relievers so that Heilman could stay in the rotation, right? Wrong. We did trade two solid starters for relievers, but they are both so mediocre, that we have to put Heilman in the bullpen. It's funny, there were a lot of good relievers on the market during FA, but Omar Minaya refuses to sign any middle-relievers. The same thing happened last year too. Minaya felt that signing a bunch of journeymen relievers would do the trick, but after Felix Heredia, Manny Aybar, Dae Sung Koo, Mike DeJean, and other didn't work out, our bullpen was pretty depleted. When something happens to one of our starting pitchers this year, and Heilman takes their spot (which he should), it's going to be hard to get to Wagner in the 9th...

                    Omar Minaya
                    If you think that Omar Minaya is a smart GM, you should get yourself checked out. When he was the Expos GM, he traded Grady Sizemore, Cliff Lee, and Brandon Phillips for a month of Bartolo Colon. So, he traded 3 of the biggest prospects at that time, for one month of Bartolo Colon. How on earth can you justify making that deal?
                    ~MOE

                    Moonlight Graham
                    ...one game, no at-bats...


                    RisingApple.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by moebarguy
                      It just kills me to see people justify Minaya's trades...

                      The Jorge Julio Trade
                      Jorge Julio has had one, just one, good year in his entire career. That was in 2002, when he had a 1.99 ERA, 1.21 WHIP, went 5-6, 25 Saves, and had 55 K's in 68 IP. Great rookie year. Then in 2003, he had a 4.43 ERA, 1.54 WHIP, went 0-7, 36 Saves, and had 52 K's in 62 IP. In 2004, he had a 4.57 ERA, 1.41 WHIP, went 2-5, 22 Saves, and had 70 K's in 69 IP. Finally, last year, in 2005, he had a 5.94 ERA, 1.40 WHIP, went 3-5, 0 Saves, and had 58 K's in 71 IP. Now, since he is simply a reliever for us, not a closer, just knock out those saves from 2003 to 2005 - that is the pitcher we are getting. Saves are one of the most overrated statistics in all of baseball. That cateogory is the only reason why Julio is still in the majors, because people think that since he has 83 career saves, that he is a talented pitcher. The reality of the matter is that he has a high ERA, and high WHIP, his K's have been decreasing, and he couldn't even handle being a setup guy last year. This is the guy that Minaya brings in for a solid starting pitcher like Benson? How can you possibly justify that trade? There were a handful of teams out there, even now, who could use a solid starter like Benson. But Minaya trades him for a worthless reliever...

                      The Duaner Sanchez Trade
                      While I do think that Sanchez is a decent reliever, in no way was trading Jae Seo, who went 8-2, with a 2.59 ERA, and a 1.11 WHIP last season as a starter for the Mets, a good trade. The Mets will be Sanchez's 4th team in 5 seasons, so it's not as if he's a hot commodity. Sanchez had a decent season last year with the Dodgers, with a 3.73 ERA, 71 K's in 82 IP, but lost 7 games and had a 1.35 WHIP. He tends to give up a lot of hits, and he walks people too. Lefties also hit .310 against him, so his value is pretty limited. While I think that he is a decent reliever to have, giving up a good 4th starter for him is a plain-out dumb trade.

                      Aaron Heilman to the Bullpen
                      Sure, Heilman did great in the bullpen last year, and he'll probably do well in the bullpen again this year, but for god sakes, the guy would make a very good starting pitcher. I mean, we traded Jae Seo and Kris Benson to free up a spot for him, right? We did trade two solid starting pitchers for relievers so that Heilman could stay in the rotation, right? Wrong. We did trade two solid starters for relievers, but they are both so mediocre, that we have to put Heilman in the bullpen. It's funny, there were a lot of good relievers on the market during FA, but Omar Minaya refuses to sign any middle-relievers. The same thing happened last year too. Minaya felt that signing a bunch of journeymen relievers would do the trick, but after Felix Heredia, Manny Aybar, Dae Sung Koo, Mike DeJean, and other didn't work out, our bullpen was pretty depleted. When something happens to one of our starting pitchers this year, and Heilman takes their spot (which he should), it's going to be hard to get to Wagner in the 9th...

                      Omar Minaya
                      If you think that Omar Minaya is a smart GM, you should get yourself checked out. When he was the Expos GM, he traded Grady Sizemore, Cliff Lee, and Brandon Phillips for a month of Bartolo Colon. So, he traded 3 of the biggest prospects at that time, for one month of Bartolo Colon. How on earth can you justify making that deal?
                      Why we keep Zambrano is beyond comprehension.....

                      Too bad Anna couldn't pitch....

                      Amazin...Simply Amazin!!!
                      North of the Big Apple but missing Central Fla :atthepc

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by brooklynboy
                        Why we keep Zambrano is beyond comprehension.....

                        Too bad Anna couldn't pitch....

                        Amazin...Simply Amazin!!!
                        Everyone just don't see a trend to his trades, almost every trade is for someone with a visa. Look at who he trades to get these players Benson, Seo he let Marlon Anderson go and signed Franco at 47 for the same money in other words he prefers hispanic players no matter what it costs. Right now we need a starter badly because Pedro isn't 100% and this jerk traded away 2 very good starters. The Mets are still trying to justify the trade for Zambrano that's why they won't trade the bum. Just look at Omar's history north of the border and with the Mets if the Yankee's GM Brian Cashman did what Omar has done he'd be called prejudice.
                        Lets support Gil Hodges for The Hall of Fame, a true Hall of Famer.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Nady

                          The Xavier Nady trade seems to be paying off already. Add the fact that Cameron is hurt, and...

                          As for Mike Jacobs-Delgado, it's Jacobs 1, Delgado 0: Delgado had an 0-for yesterday, while Jacobs hit an impressive HR for the Fish off Pettite. Delgado will have a better year, though.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            [ he couldn't even handle being a setup guy last year. This is the guy that Minaya brings in for a solid starting pitcher like Benson? How can you possibly justify that trade? There were a handful of teams out there, even now, who could use a solid starter like Benson.

                            I could NOT agree more. This segment of your post is right on the money IMHO. BTW the very NOTION that Benson may have been traded because of his wife is rediculous. If the Mets front office even took that into consideration they are retarded.

                            The Duaner Sanchez Trade
                            While I do think that Sanchez is a decent reliever, in no way was trading Jae Seo, who went 8-2, with a 2.59 ERA, and a 1.11 WHIP last season as a starter for the Mets, a good trade. The Mets will be Sanchez's 4th team in 5 seasons, so it's not as if he's a hot commodity. Sanchez had a decent season last year with the Dodgers, with a 3.73 ERA, 71 K's in 82 IP, but lost 7 games and had a 1.35 WHIP. He tends to give up a lot of hits, and he walks people too. Lefties also hit .310 against him, so his value is pretty limited. While I think that he is a decent reliever to have, giving up a good 4th starter for him is a plain-out dumb trade.

                            Whereas I am VERY confident that we traded Seo when he is at the absolute height of his market ( He is no more than a 5th starter on a bad team that had a good couple of months) you are again RIGHT ON THE MONEY when you state that "giving up a good 4th starter" (as he was last year) for a releiver is plain-out dumb.


                            Aaron Heilman to the Bullpen
                            Sure, Heilman did great in the bullpen last year, and he'll probably do well in the bullpen again this year, but for god sakes, the guy would make a very good starting pitcher. I mean, we traded Jae Seo and Kris Benson to free up a spot for him, right? We did trade two solid starting pitchers for relievers so that Heilman could stay in the rotation, right? Wrong. We did trade two solid starters for relievers, but they are both so mediocre, that we have to put Heilman in the bullpen. It's funny, there were a lot of good relievers on the market during FA, but Omar Minaya refuses to sign any middle-relievers. The same thing happened last year too. Minaya felt that signing a bunch of journeymen relievers would do the trick, but after Felix Heredia, Manny Aybar, Dae Sung Koo, Mike DeJean, and other didn't work out, our bullpen was pretty depleted. When something happens to one of our starting pitchers this year, and Heilman takes their spot (which he should), it's going to be hard to get to Wagner in the 9th...

                            I disagree with you here... heilman is better in the pen than Bannister and like you detailed above ... middle relief if we need Heilman in the rotation should be had in the farm system if needbe

                            Omar Minaya
                            If you think that Omar Minaya is a smart GM, you should get yourself checked out. When he was the Expos GM, he traded Grady Sizemore, Cliff Lee, and Brandon Phillips for a month of Bartolo Colon. So, he traded 3 of the biggest prospects at that time, for one month of Bartolo Colon. How on earth can you justify making that deal?[/QUOTE]

                            Hmmm... I think the jury is still out. You CANNOT judge what he did in Montreal under the conditions he found himself there. He got us Pedro and convinced Beltran and Delgado to come here when nobody wanted to, so he HAS had his moments.

                            HOWEVER... I really don't care what Nady does... there was a premium market for Centerfielders during the off season and he HORRIBLY undersold Cammy.

                            Just my 2c
                            Last edited by Realitydose; 04-05-2006, 04:52 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by metsrock31
                              The Xavier Nady trade seems to be paying off already. Add the fact that Cameron is hurt, and...

                              As for Mike Jacobs-Delgado, it's Jacobs 1, Delgado 0: Delgado had an 0-for yesterday, while Jacobs hit an impressive HR for the Fish off Pettite. Delgado will have a better year, though.
                              You can't say that after two games...The guy hit .220 against righties last year -- he's a platoon player. Also, there were at least 3 or 4 teams, including the Red Sox and Yankees, who needed a CF. Instead of getting relievers, which we could still use, we traded Cameron for a super UT guy. Yes, Nady is a solid player, but we still didn't get enough value out of Cameron, who could have fetched us more talent if we had gotten more teams involved in the bidding. Don't you think the Yankees would try to outbid the Red Sox (and vise versa) if they thought they were going after him? The Red Sox ended up trading Andy Marte, a huge hitting 3B prospect, Guillermo Mota, a very solid reliever, and Kelly Shoppach, a good catching prospect, for Coco Crisp, who had not played CF consistently. I feel that we could have gotten a good amount for Cameron...

                              Obviously I like Delgado, but it's the fact that the Mets were competing with themselves for him. After we made the deal, I read an article about how the Orioles, who the Mets thought were bidding for Delgado, actually were not. The Mets, like always, gave up more than they had to. Of course I'd rather have Delgado than Jacobs, but I feel we could have kept Petit.
                              ~MOE

                              Moonlight Graham
                              ...one game, no at-bats...


                              RisingApple.com

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