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Our Mets Hall of Fame, election 25

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  • Our Mets Hall of Fame, election 25

    Please limit your ballot to a maximum of 15 names.

    This is the twenty-fourth election for Our Mets Hall of Fame. Last time, we elected Gary Carter and Keith Hernandez.

    For the original rules and specifications for this Hall of Fame, see:

    http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=83894

    New, additional rules:

    When voting, consider the player’s Mets career only. If you choose to vote “none of the above,” you must explain your decision or your vote will not count.

    It is not necessary that you explain your other votes, however it is still encouraged that you do so.

    --

    New on the ballot:

    Tim Teufel
    Ed Hearn
    Kevin Elster
    Stan Jefferson
    Dave Magadan
    Barry Lyons
    Tim Corcoran
    Bob Ojeda
    Rick Anderson
    John Mitchell

    Dropped from the last ballot:

    Terry Blocker
    Larry Bowa
    Bill Latham
    John Milner
    Randy Niemann
    Tom Paciorek
    Joe Sambito

    Code:
    Mets Hall of Fame:
    
    Player:          Times on ballot:          Induction percentage:           When inducted:
    
    Tommie Agee             2                           80.00                   8th election 
    Wally Backman           2                           85.71                   20th election
    Gary Carter             1                           92.31                   24th election 
    Donn Clendenon          14                          85.71                   20th election
    Ron Darling             2                           84.62                   23rd election
    Sid Fernandez           1                           84.62                   23rd election 
    Dwight Gooden           1                           100.00                  23rd election
    Jerry Grote             1                           100.00                  5th election
    Bud Harrelson           1                           100.00                  4th election
    Keith Hernandez         1                           100.00                  22nd election
    Gil Hodges              1                           77.78                   1st election
    Ron Hunt                11                          77.78                   12th election
    Howard Johnson          1                           84.62                   24th election
    Cleon Jones             1                           100.00                  2nd election
    Dave Kingman            2                           81.25                   15th election
    Jerry Koosman           1                           100.00                  6th election
    Ed Kranepool            1                           88.89                   1st election
    Skip Lockwood           7                           85.71                   20th election
    Jon Matlack             1                           81.82                   10th election
    Lee Mazzilli            1                           75.00                   15th election
    Tug McGraw              1                           90.00                   4th election
    Felix Millan            1                           77.78                   12th election
    Jesse Orosco            2                           77.78                   19th election
    Tom Seaver              1                           91.67                   6th election
    Rusty Staub             1                           85.71                   11th election
    John Stearns            3                           83.33                   16th election
    Darryl Strawberry       1                           90.00                   22nd election
    Ron Swoboda             10                          75.00                   13th election
    Mookie Wilson           1                           88.89                   19th election
    
    
    Manager:          Times on ballot:          Induction percentage:           When inducted:
    
    Gil Hodges               1                           90.00                   1st Mgr. election
    Davey Johnson            1                           100.00                  1st Mgr. election
    Bobby Valentine          2                           100.00                  2nd Mgr. election

    Code:
    Holdovers:
    
    Player:          Times on ballot:          Previous percentage:          High percentage: 
    
    Rick Aguilera           1                       30.77                        30.77
    Neil Allen              7                       7.69                         28.57 
    Hubie Brooks            6                       46.15                        57.14
    Lenny Dykstra           1                       61.54                        61.54
    George Foster           4                       7.69                         20.00
    Ed Glynn                7                       15.38                        28.57
    Ray Knight              2                       61.54                        61.54
    Terry Leach             5                       30.77                        30.77
    Willie Mays             14                      23.08                        62.50
    Roger McDowell          1                       69.23                        69.23
    Kevin Mitchell          2                       15.38                        15.38
    Randy Myers             1                       30.77                        30.77
    Rafael Santana          2                       15.38                        23.08
    Calvin Schiraldi        1                       7.69                         7.69
    Doug Sisk               4                       30.77                        30.77
    Craig Swan              13                      53.85                        71.43
    Joel Youngblood         9                       30.77                        57.14
    
    Holdovers dropped:
    
    John Milner...eligibility expired
    
    Last year of eligibility:
    
    Willie Mays
    Number of voters in each election:

    Election 1: 18
    Election 2: 8
    Election 3: 9
    Election 4: 10
    Election 5: 9
    Election 6: 12
    Election 7: 10
    Election 8: 10
    Election 9: 10
    Election 10: 11
    Election 11: 14
    Election 12: 9
    Election 13: 8
    Election 14: 15
    Election 15: 16
    Election 16: 12
    Election 17: 14
    Election 18: 18
    Election 19: 9 (5 DQed)
    Election 20: 7
    Election 21: 8
    Election 22: 10
    Election 23: 13
    Election 24: 13

    Manager election 1: 10
    Manager election 2: 11
    Manager election 3: 8
    78
    Rick Aguilera
    3.85%
    3
    Neil Allen
    2.56%
    2
    Rick Anderson
    0.00%
    0
    Hubie Brooks
    6.41%
    5
    Tim Corcoran
    0.00%
    0
    Lenny Dykstra
    8.97%
    7
    Kevin Elster
    1.28%
    1
    George Foster
    1.28%
    1
    Ed Glynn
    2.56%
    2
    Ed Hearn
    1.28%
    1
    Stan Jefferson
    0.00%
    0
    Ray Knight
    10.26%
    8
    Terry Leach
    5.13%
    4
    Barry Lyons
    0.00%
    0
    Dave Magadan
    2.56%
    2
    Willie Mays
    5.13%
    4
    Roger McDowell
    6.41%
    5
    John Mitchell
    0.00%
    0
    Kevin Mitchell
    5.13%
    4
    Randy Myers
    3.85%
    3
    Bob Ojeda
    7.69%
    6
    Rafael Santana
    2.56%
    2
    Calvin Schiraldi
    1.28%
    1
    Doug Sisk
    5.13%
    4
    Craig Swan
    8.97%
    7
    Tim Teufel
    1.28%
    1
    Joel Youngblood
    2.56%
    2
    None of the above
    3.85%
    3

    The poll is expired.

    Last edited by Cowtipper; 06-25-2009, 05:47 PM.

  • #2
    My ballot:

    Rick Aguilera
    Neil Allen
    Lenny Dykstra
    Ray Knight
    Terry Leach
    Dave Magadan
    Roger McDowell
    Randy Myers
    Bob Ojeda
    Doug Sisk
    Craig Swan
    Joel Youngblood

    Also, this is Willie Mays final year on the ballot.

    Comment


    • #3
      Aguilera (don't wanna see him dropped too soon)
      Brooks (the first Met to make playing third base a legitimate occupation)
      Dykstra (no-brainer)
      Elster*
      Knight ('86 WS MVP -- no brainer)
      Magadan**
      Mays ()
      McDowell (no-brainer)
      Mitchell***
      Myers****
      Ojeda*****
      Santana (a second vote for our '86 shortstop)
      SWAN (!! -- for God's sake)


      * Elster gets a vote from me for this ballot. No shortstop in the history of Major League Baseball had played more games in a row, 88, without committing an error than Kevin Elster did in 1988-89. His record would later be broken and even while it stood, Elster's achievement would be viewed by some with an asterisk since a number of those games were late-inning appearances for defense. But they were appearances and there were no errors. Elster also hit nine homers as a rookie shortstop in '88. By comparison, Bud Harrelson hit none in '69 or '73 and Rafael Santana hit one in '86.


      **Coming up through the Mets farms and taking over for one of the greatest firstbasemen of the second half of the century, Dave Magadan took the role graciously. He performed more than adequately for his seven seasons with the team before being granted free agency after '92 to make way for Eddie Murray. Dave finished 1990 at .328, third in the league and the first Met in more than 20 years to rake at that rate.


      *** Kevin Mitchell get a vote from me on this ballot, although I'm on the fence with him. His teammates called him "747" because he was jumbo. Then they called him "World" because his versatility was all-planet. That a high-profile act like the '86 Mets could unveil a secret weapon like Kevin Mitchell in full view of the competition was indication enough to the NL East that it could make other plans for the summer. Including post-season, Mitchell collected 95 hits that year. The first 94, presumably, were gathered fully equipped. He then finished third in Rookie of the Year voting. ...Granted, the best part of his career was ahead of him when the young home-grown Mitchell became part of a somewhat lopsided trade after '86 for the key of the trade, Kevin McReynolds, but, depsite McReynolds very adequate and consistent play during his six seasons with the Mets, hindsight shows that in the long run the Mets got the shorter end of the deal.


      **** Myers gets my vote this time around for two reasons. One, he pitched ninth-inning heat well enough for the Mets to make him their main closer in '88, when he racked up 26 and finished with a 1.72 ERA. Two, when he left in '91 after five years with a 2.74 ERA and 56 saves (a little more than 15% of his career total), it was because Cincinnati thought he and Kip Gross made a better combination than John Franco. That he proved himself reliable enough for that trade alone deserves a bit of merit.


      ***** On a staff that encompassed so many talented, callow, live wires, Bobby Ojeda arrived on the 1986 Mets with a left arm that must've been coated in leather. Betcha it had a map of the world etched into it. He was only 28, but the arm was wise beyond its years. Judged as fifth-starter insurance, Ojeda broke through as the dominating Mets' most dominant starter early on, tossing dead fishes, going 18-5 and posting a 2.55 ERA, the second-best in the league. His presence took enormous pressure off young Gooden, Darling, Fernandez and Aguilera. Long before Art Howe made the phrase a punchline, Bobby O battled.

      Everything about him said business, never louder than in the two Game Sixes, the tensest baseball matches of their day. In Houston, he gave up three irritating runs in the first, wriggled out of it after a botched squeeze and hung tough for five, giving up nothing more. Against the Red Sox, he held up under the massive strain of an elimination game while competing with Clemens' no-hit caliber stuff, and kept the Mets in it, 2-2, through six. When asked during the World Series if he had conflicting emotions facing his old club, Bobby Ojeda pointed to the NY on his jacket. This, he said, is who I work for now.

      That Ojeda was traded in Dec '90 after five seasons, 51-40 with a 3.12 ERA, for a now-aging and now-inneffective Hubie Brooks tells in a nutshell the dismantlement of the Mets in the early '90s, and makes my 25th ballot voting come full circle.
      Put it in the books.

      Comment


      • #4
        I smell a disqualified vote.
        Put it in the books.

        Comment


        • #5
          I think a hall of fame should be more exclusive than inclusive. I don't think anyone of the list belongs or is truly a "Met" great. Some of these guys may have had a good season or two or have been involved in iconic Mets moments but when I look at this list, I don't see any names that pop out as all time Met great. So I picked none of the above.

          Comment


          • #6
            Meh. The whole list has two and three season guys that were B listers on their own teams. I gave my vote to Dykstra and Series MVP Knight (though really he was probably worse than Foster in the regular seasons).

            Comment


            • #7
              I voted None of the Above. While many are favorites, none had All-Star caliber years with the Mets for an extended period of time.

              Comment


              • #8
                I'm not trying to skew the process, but I have to submit a blank ballot here. Some of the players left listed are amongst my all-time personal favorites, but none deserve induction.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Dykstra again doesn't get my vote but he's close.
                  I'm willing to be persuded either way. I am leaning twords giving it to him in the next round as I think his Met career justifies it. I have a prejudice against him for what he 'transformed' into as a member of another team and will never vote for players who went that way but he was normal looking as a Met and it's his Met career that is at issue.

                  The lack of support for Swan, one of the best Met starters all-time, is unfortunate.

                  Ray Knight.
                  Q:How many New York Met World Series Most Valuable Players have there been ?
                  A: Two
                  Q: Was one of the two Ray Knight ?
                  A: Yes.
                  Q: Do the Mets dominate the NL in '86 without Knight ?
                  A: No.
                  Q: Were the Mets the same team after Knight left following the '86 season ?
                  A: No.
                  Q: Does Ray Knight belong in this or any New York Met Hall of Fame ?
                  A: YES.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by milladrive View Post
                    I smell a disqualified vote.
                    I now suggest that The Commissioner's courteous blank ballot coupled with the yet-explained "none of the above" vote currently render the balloting valid as is.

                    Put it in the books.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by milladrive View Post
                      I now suggest that The Commissioner's courteous blank ballot coupled with the yet-explained "none of the above" vote currently render the balloting valid as is.

                      Sounds good.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'd like further explain a couple of my exclusions:

                        1) Ray Knight. Man, I worshipped this guy. He should never be, and will never, be forgotten in hearts and minds of Mets fans. However, he really only had one full season with the Mets. Now, given when you include his post-season heroics, it was just about as good of a season as a player could have. However, this is, I guess, where the process becomes ambiguous. To me, a player needs to have contributed for several years to the club in order to be considered for the team's Hall of Fame. IMHO, a ten year mediocre to above average vet (such as Mazilli) has a lot more of a claim to a Hall spot as someone with one great year and two more partial seasons. If Knight even had three full seasons, he might merit a lot more consideration. As it stands, I could justify his being voted into the Reds or Astros Hall of Fame before New York's. Don't get me wrong, I am tempted to give him my vote, but I still fall on the "no" side for now. Perhaps I can be convinced to vote otherwise, or Knight will eventually get selected by the Veteran's Committee?

                        2. Craig Swan- This guy was always a childhood favorite of mine.He began in the shadow of Seaver and Koosman, and then stayed behind as they went off to pitch elsewhere. Who can ever forget him leading the N.L. in ERA in 1978? One of my all-time favorite baseball cards was the 1979 Topps League Leaders card with Guidry on the left side and Swan on the right. Then Swan, after sticking with the club for so long, isn't around to see the post season in 1986. That's truly a shame, and I felt bad for him. Once again, I was on the fence with Swan. He definitely had the longevity that Knight lacked, but lacked the overall numbers. (Just three winning seasons, with a high of 14) Certainly he was better than his 59-71 record would indicate. However, he wasn't so much better as to merit induction.

                        Like I said, I'm on the fence with both guys and a big fan of both. I just can't pull the trigger on either.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by The Commissioner View Post
                          I'd like further explain a couple of my exclusions:

                          1) Ray Knight. Man, I worshipped this guy. He should never be, and will never, be forgotten in hearts and minds of Mets fans. However, he really only had one full season with the Mets. Now, given when you include his post-season heroics, it was just about as good of a season as a player could have. However, this is, I guess, where the process becomes ambiguous. To me, a player needs to have contributed for several years to the club in order to be considered for the team's Hall of Fame. IMHO, a ten year mediocre to above average vet (such as Mazzilli) has a lot more of a claim to a Hall spot as someone with one great year and two more partial seasons.
                          I definitely concur that tenure and regularity should be part of the equation of quality. It's just that I also feel that sometimes certain players leave their mark in a brief but potent way.

                          The morning after the Mets won the 1986 World Series, New York radio was wall to wall with Mets talk. On WABC, sports guy Steve Malzberg got a big laugh by suggesting that if you ask Ray Knight what time it is, he'll tell you how to make a watch. The night before, after Knight hit the seventh-inning home run that put the Mets ahead once and for all and accepted the MVP, it was a three-sheets Keith Hernandez who wouldn't shut up, telling an interviewer, "people call me the leader of this team. Ray Knight's the leader of this team." Malzberg and Mex were both right.

                          Ray talked a lot which helped set the tone for a Mets team that knew it was good and wasn't shy about letting you in on it. Ray backed up his talk, as Eric Davis and Tom Niedenfuer could tell you. His whole season was about fight, starting with his spunky comeback from the .218 disaster of '85, running through his shockingly successful April (six home runs), his honor-defending fisticuffs of summer, and that glorious moment he jumped full-force on home plate with the winning run of World Series Game Six. Said his excitement got the best of him and he twisted his back by jumping for joy. Of course he did -- even Ray Knight's body language spoke volumes.

                          That he wasn't around in '87 and that we didn't make the post-season that year speaks volumes. I personally feel that his brief one full season contributions to the best Mets team ever merits inclusion in OMHOF. Add that to the WS MVP (of which there have been a mere two Mets in their history), and, at least for me, the equation becomes skewed in his favor.

                          I actually consider Ray to be in my top forty of all-time important Mets. ...Then again, I also have Wayne Garrett in my top forty, so I could be entirely off the consensus' path.


                          2. Craig Swan- This guy was always a childhood favorite of mine.He began in the shadow of Seaver and Koosman, and then stayed behind as they went off to pitch elsewhere. Who can ever forget him leading the N.L. in ERA in 1978? One of my all-time favorite baseball cards was the 1979 Topps League Leaders card with Guidry on the left side and Swan on the right. Then Swan, after sticking with the club for so long, isn't around to see the post season in 1986. That's truly a shame, and I felt bad for him. Once again, I was on the fence with Swan. He definitely had the longevity that Knight lacked, but lacked the overall numbers. (Just three winning seasons, with a high of 14) Certainly he was better than his 59-71 record would indicate. However, he wasn't so much better as to merit induction.
                          Well, that would have to be a choice only you can make, of course.

                          Winning the National League ERA title in 1978 may have been a career aberration (steroids? heh), but Swannie was the ace of the late '70s and early '80s losing Mets. On his best days, he was a low-rent Seaver. By the time he was deemed obsolete in May '84 at age 33 after twelve seasons with the club, he stood fourth on the franchise's all-time victory chart.

                          If nothing, I hope I've offered some insight.
                          Last edited by milladrive; 06-26-2009, 10:53 AM.
                          Put it in the books.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            There's about a day left to vote.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              We elected nobody.

                              Comment

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