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  • Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
    Yes they did, but they floated the Noah trade when it was obvious they were creating a hole by doing so didnt they?
    If you refuse to listen to offers, you'll never get offers. Everyone's always on the table. It's the cost of the player that drives the deal.

    20-Game Saturday Plan, Prom Box 423.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by dstoffa View Post

      If you refuse to listen to offers, you'll never get offers. Everyone's always on the table. It's the cost of the player that drives the deal.
      Regardless -- trading Noah created a hole and they werent doing that. Everyone is on the table for Mike Trout - not anyone the Marlins are trading.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Mongoose View Post

        Exactly. Also, the Tampa Rays' owner, Stuart Sternberg (for example) would love to own a NY team. He's from NYC and was (and maybe still is) a Mets season ticket holder. The Rays are well run. I'm sure he'd love to move them into the NYC area, and the fans would love another option. But MLB won't let anything like that happen because Fred and the Steinbrenners have a duopoly. It's not a free market in a lot of ways...

        You know, it's weird how every detail of Mets' trade negotiations is leaked to the press. Jeff McNeil was supposed to have gone to Seattle in the Cano trade. Fan reaction apparently stopped that. We're not hearing anything else about a very unpopular Syndergaard trade. I think the majority of fan reaction to the Realmuto rumors was negative. The Mets finally moved on, did what many of us had been wanting for many days, and signed Ramos.

        I'm beginning to think the Van Wilpon front office's moves are being driven by opinion on fan message boards - at least within a smallish budget. The leaks are trial balloons to see reaction. Would it be surprising? Ownership has always kept an eye on PR, and press coverage when signing players.

        This isn't terrible, since ownership is even dumber than the fans. But it's not good, since you want a front office smarter than the fans.

        Anyone else think there's something to this?
        Mongoose

        1) Yes, I agree there are certain "Mets" on this group that might be associated with the current Mets situation. Just check the tone, timing, and the message itself
        2) I might disagree about the Rays being a well run team. I'm in the middle of the Rays mess. Uncle Stu just backed out of a stadium deal and pouts because he can't get the business backing he wants. He only wants to add ~$160M to a $800M stadium. Yea, I know, cost effective. Add that to the way the Rays move their roster around. Get close to a big salary, you go..This season they got lucky and won 90 games. What about next? and the following? Build up a farm system and keep selling when the contracts get too high.

        Not a particularly good way to run a team!!
        North of the Big Apple but missing Central Fla :atthepc

        Comment


        • Originally posted by brooklynboy View Post

          Mongoose

          1) Yes, I agree there are certain "Mets" on this group that might be associated with the current Mets situation. Just check the tone, timing, and the message itself
          2) I might disagree about the Rays being a well run team. I'm in the middle of the Rays mess. Uncle Stu just backed out of a stadium deal and pouts because he can't get the business backing he wants. He only wants to add ~$160M to a $800M stadium. Yea, I know, cost effective. Add that to the way the Rays move their roster around. Get close to a big salary, you go..This season they got lucky and won 90 games. What about next? and the following? Build up a farm system and keep selling when the contracts get too high.

          Not a particularly good way to run a team!!
          Maybe, but look at the disparity in revenue:

          https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/esti...-30-mlb-teams/

          Tampa's at the bottom of MLB, and don't seem to own their own RSN. Fred probably has 20x the money coming in. If you read through this thread, you'll get an idea of the handouts Fred got as a result of Coupon Field. Fred paid $1 for all the adjacent land east of the stadium, which is worth $500M+. I'm not defending Rays ownership, but sometimes it almost seems the point of MLB is to ramrod horrible stadium deals through local legislatures. If localities don't pay up, they'll get the Montreal treatment, in which MLB destroys the franchise.

          But MLB has run out of markets, so I'm not sure how much leverage Sternberg has. I believe if he was in NY and had Fred's revenue, he'd run a perpetual winner. It's unfortunate he can't just come here and compete in this market. The NY Mets are like a case study in the negatives of a market with no competition.

          I've been surprised at some of the contracts we've seen this off-season. I'd have taken a flier on Miller for 2/$25M. Brantley signed for 2/$32M. Murphy at 2/$24M is a steal. Even Tampa scored Charlie Morton at 2/$30M. It's a disgrace the Mets haven't just gone out and fixed the roster. They've added one guy to maybe the worst bullpen in the game.

          Diaz and Familia will be burned out from overuse and the whole bullpen will then collapse without reinforcements.

          The roster also isn't deep, and is filled with injury concerns.

          Factor in that the team never plays its best players, and you can expect a typical Mets season.



          "The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Mongoose View Post

            Maybe, but look at the disparity in revenue:

            https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/esti...-30-mlb-teams/

            Tampa's at the bottom of MLB, and don't seem to own their own RSN. Fred probably has 20x the money coming in. If you read through this thread, you'll get an idea of the handouts Fred got as a result of Coupon Field. Fred paid $1 for all the adjacent land east of the stadium, which is worth $500M+. I'm not defending Rays ownership, but sometimes it almost seems the point of MLB is to ramrod horrible stadium deals through local legislatures. If localities don't pay up, they'll get the Montreal treatment, in which MLB destroys the franchise.

            But MLB has run out of markets, so I'm not sure how much leverage Sternberg has. I believe if he was in NY and had Fred's revenue, he'd run a perpetual winner. It's unfortunate he can't just come here and compete in this market. The NY Mets are like a case study in the negatives of a market with no competition.

            I've been surprised at some of the contracts we've seen this off-season. I'd have taken a flier on Miller for 2/$25M. Brantley signed for 2/$32M. Murphy at 2/$24M is a steal. Even Tampa scored Charlie Morton at 2/$30M. It's a disgrace the Mets haven't just gone out and fixed the roster. They've added one guy to maybe the worst bullpen in the game.

            Diaz and Familia will be burned out from overuse and the whole bullpen will then collapse without reinforcements.

            The roster also isn't deep, and is filled with injury concerns.

            Factor in that the team never plays its best players, and you can expect a typical Mets season.
            Totally agree on the "Let's Hold 'em up for Ransom" philosophy. Tampa right now is a hockey crazed city. The perception down here is that Stu wants a new stadium built but at the taxpayers expense. It's not a good time down here for that. I will say that Hillsborough County and Tampa both were willing to raise the usual tourist taxes to help pay for the new stadium. What upset a lot of peolple was the small amount the Rays were willing to pay

            True.. TB doesn't own their own network. They did, I believe, sign a new network contract which kicks in on 2020. The revenue begin to pour in supposedly. TB is always at the bottom in attndence. Miami beat them out this year . Actually, TB had a great organization during the Madden/ Andrew era and support and attendence was starting to grow. Stu desperately wants out of the Trop contract. The team has pretty much alienated their fan base.

            Stu has his sights set on Las Vegas or a relocate to Montreal...

            Mets should have taken a deep run at Miller. The Wilpons will never sig DM

            Totally agree on Popa Fred's coupons and Handouts..
            North of the Big Apple but missing Central Fla :atthepc

            Comment


            • Excerpt from A Revised Christmas Carol


              The cellar-door flew open with a booming sound,
              and then Fred heard the noise much louder, on the floors
              below; then coming up the stairs; then coming straight
              towards his door.

              "It's humbug still!" said Fred. "I won't believe it."

              His colour changed though, when, without a pause,
              it came on through the heavy door, and passed into
              the room before his eyes. Upon its coming in, the
              dying flame leaped up, as though it cried, "I know
              him; Doubleday’s Ghost!" and fell again.

              The same face: the very same. Doubleday in his,
              Ivy League sport coat, slacks and brogues; the shine on
              the latter gleaming, like his aviator glasses.
              His body was transparent; so that Fred, observing him,
              and looking through his sport coat, could see
              the single vent on his coat behind.

              No, nor did he believe it even now. Though he
              looked the phantom through and through, and saw
              it standing before him; though he felt the chilling
              influence of its death-cold eyes; and marked the very
              texture of the folded kerchief bound about its head
              and chin, which wrapper he had not observed before;
              he was still incredulous, and fought against his senses.

              "How now!" said Fred, caustic and cold as ever.
              "What do you want with me?"

              “Hump One, Hump Two!”—Doubleday’s voice, no doubt about it.

              "Who are you?"

              "Ask me who I was."...


              Perhaps such an event might happen. We'll know shortly, once the off-season resumes. If there are no significant improvements, we can assume Fred told the Three Spirits to blow off.


              "The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Mongoose View Post
                Excerpt from A Revised Christmas Carol


                The cellar-door flew open with a booming sound,
                and then Fred heard the noise much louder, on the floors
                below; then coming up the stairs; then coming straight
                towards his door.

                "It's humbug still!" said Fred. "I won't believe it."

                His colour changed though, when, without a pause,
                it came on through the heavy door, and passed into
                the room before his eyes. Upon its coming in, the
                dying flame leaped up, as though it cried, "I know
                him; Doubleday’s Ghost!" and fell again.

                The same face: the very same. Doubleday in his,
                Ivy League sport coat, slacks and brogues; the shine on
                the latter gleaming, like his aviator glasses.
                His body was transparent; so that Fred, observing him,
                and looking through his sport coat, could see
                the single vent on his coat behind.

                No, nor did he believe it even now. Though he
                looked the phantom through and through, and saw
                it standing before him; though he felt the chilling
                influence of its death-cold eyes; and marked the very
                texture of the folded kerchief bound about its head
                and chin, which wrapper he had not observed before;
                he was still incredulous, and fought against his senses.

                "How now!" said Fred, caustic and cold as ever.
                "What do you want with me?"

                “Hump One, Hump Two!”—Doubleday’s voice, no doubt about it.

                "Who are you?"

                "Ask me who I was."...


                Perhaps such an event might happen. We'll know shortly, once the off-season resumes. If there are no significant improvements, we can assume Fred told the Three Spirits to blow off.
                The only spirits that visit Fred and Jeff are the same ones Linda Blair needed two priests to rid of in the Exorcist.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by NYMets523 View Post

                  Not by choice.

                  I didn't bother reading the rest of your post since it's just your tired complaitns about ownership.
                  Just looking at the first page of this thread and noticed this. I remember this guy. Paulypal might, too. You know, 10 years later I still don't have as many posts as him.

                  As for the Wilpons, Pollock just signed with the Dodgers. The deal works out to 5 years at $60M. Not terrible AAV. He would have been a far more useful signing than Jed Lowrie. Drew Pomeranz signed a one year, $1.5M deal today. Brad Brach just signed for 4.35M for one year. So far, the only addition to the horrendous bullpen remains Diaz. Relative pittances, but one must assume the Wilpons are looking to sift through dregs for Minor League signings.

                  Of course Harper and Machado are as likely to wind up on the Rays as the Mets.

                  I think this has been a very Wilpon off-season. They acquired a giant "name" who offers poor overall value for the money. The areas of greatest need were not addressed. On the other hand, Cano might offer multiple bobbleheads, Lowrie and Diaz offer bobblehead promise as well, and Syracuse should have a strong team.

                  Basically some money was spent, but for the wrong players and the wrong reasons. When things don't work out, enough will have been spent for apologists to deny they're cheap. But this off-season was cheap in archetypal Wilpon fashion.


                  "The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Mongoose View Post

                    Just looking at the first page of this thread and noticed this. I remember this guy. Paulypal might, too. You know, 10 years later I still don't have as many posts as him.

                    As for the Wilpons, Pollock just signed with the Dodgers. The deal works out to 5 years at $60M. Not terrible AAV. He would have been a far more useful signing than Jed Lowrie. Drew Pomeranz signed a one year, $1.5M deal today. Brad Brach just signed for 4.35M for one year. So far, the only addition to the horrendous bullpen remains Diaz. Relative pittances, but one must assume the Wilpons are looking to sift through dregs for Minor League signings.

                    Of course Harper and Machado are as likely to wind up on the Rays as the Mets.

                    I think this has been a very Wilpon off-season. They acquired a giant "name" who offers poor overall value for the money. The areas of greatest need were not addressed. On the other hand, Cano might offer multiple bobbleheads, Lowrie and Diaz offer bobblehead promise as well, and Syracuse should have a strong team.

                    Basically some money was spent, but for the wrong players and the wrong reasons. When things don't work out, enough will have been spent for apologists to deny they're cheap. But this off-season was cheap in archetypal Wilpon fashion.
                    Mongoose- I went to the Hot Stove Event tonight at Citi Field. Van Wagenen, Allard Baird, Omar, Adam Guttridge, with Gary Apple being the Moderator. Mr. Met was there, and frankly he gained a little weight over the winter.

                    Brodie asked who bought NEW season tickets after the changes to the roster. About 2 people raised their hands.

                    The crew spoke in particular about McNeil and Nimmo and how many teams inquired about them. They're keepers. Seth Lugo was asked about a lot as well.
                    Diaz is a stud, Ramos was impressive. They think McNeil can learn the outfield because he is a competitor. Frazier, Lowrie, McNeil, Davis can hold down the fort until Alonso gets there if he doesn't make the team out of spring training. (Frankly I think he'll get the "Kris Bryant treatment" as its now called).

                    Brodie believes Cespedes can be here later in the season, no commitments.

                    Allard Baird is new and coming off the WS win, and he's ready to start here in NY. Omar got the biggest applause and he's the old schooler. Adam Guttridge is the young brains of the group.

                    The only boos came when Dom Smith was mentioned. They met with him before Christmas and will give him an opportunity. Oh and groans over Vargas.
                    They foresee Rosario and Gimenez as the future one day.

                    I'm sure I'm forgetting some things.

                    We all know the starting pitching is the strength so that really didn't generate questions from the audience.

                    Comment


                    • From the NY Post:

                      Jeff Wilpon uses Yoenis Cespedes as Mets' excuse to pass on Harper, Machado
                      My top 10 players:

                      1. Babe Ruth
                      2. Barry Bonds
                      3. Ty Cobb
                      4. Ted Williams
                      5. Willie Mays
                      6. Alex Rodriguez
                      7. Hank Aaron
                      8. Honus Wagner
                      9. Lou Gehrig
                      10. Mickey Mantle

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by LI METS FAN View Post

                        Mongoose- I went to the Hot Stove Event tonight at Citi Field. Van Wagenen, Allard Baird, Omar, Adam Guttridge, with Gary Apple being the Moderator. Mr. Met was there, and frankly he gained a little weight over the winter.

                        Brodie asked who bought NEW season tickets after the changes to the roster. About 2 people raised their hands.

                        The crew spoke in particular about McNeil and Nimmo and how many teams inquired about them. They're keepers. Seth Lugo was asked about a lot as well.
                        Diaz is a stud, Ramos was impressive. They think McNeil can learn the outfield because he is a competitor. Frazier, Lowrie, McNeil, Davis can hold down the fort until Alonso gets there if he doesn't make the team out of spring training. (Frankly I think he'll get the "Kris Bryant treatment" as its now called).

                        Brodie believes Cespedes can be here later in the season, no commitments.

                        Allard Baird is new and coming off the WS win, and he's ready to start here in NY. Omar got the biggest applause and he's the old schooler. Adam Guttridge is the young brains of the group.

                        The only boos came when Dom Smith was mentioned. They met with him before Christmas and will give him an opportunity. Oh and groans over Vargas.
                        They foresee Rosario and Gimenez as the future one day.

                        I'm sure I'm forgetting some things.

                        We all know the starting pitching is the strength so that really didn't generate questions from the audience.
                        "They think McNeil can learn the outfield because he is a competitor."

                        So was Juan Samuel; and Todd Hundley; and Lucas Duda; and Daniel Murphy. They don't really want McNeil, but they're scared he'll become great if they dump him, and they'll get heat, so they put him in the outfield. Standard operating procedure. They probably don't care if he gets playing time, or develops at all.

                        I suspect the only clue they have McNeil or Nimmo are any good was the calls from other teams.

                        Out of 8 regular positions, only 3 seemed set going into this season - Nimmo, Conforto and McNeil. You have to go with Rosario and hope he puts it together. Otherwise only Lugo was a reliable reliever. You literally needed to assemble a new bullpen. The rotation had no depth in case of injury.

                        So what do they do? They acquire the decline half of one of the worst contracts in baseball, and give up two top prospects for the privilege. Bobblehead King also displaces one of their 3 best position players, thereby nullifying his value. Incredibly, they then get a third second baseman. Off-season over.

                        Other than catcher, what real holes were filled? Broxton is a question mark. This is not a team built to handle a single injury at most positions.

                        Did anyone there remind Van Wilpon about "no ifs" when he mentioned Cespedes? Unfortunately, I doubt anyone who still spends money on season tickets is the type to confront these bamboozlers.

                        Instead of booing poor Dom Smith, the whole panel should have been booed off the stage.


                        "The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Mongoose View Post

                          "They think McNeil can learn the outfield because he is a competitor."

                          So was Juan Samuel; and Todd Hundley; and Lucas Duda; and Daniel Murphy. They don't really want McNeil, but they're scared he'll become great if they dump him, and they'll get heat, so they put him in the outfield. Standard operating procedure. They probably don't care if he gets playing time, or develops at all.

                          I suspect the only clue they have McNeil or Nimmo are any good was the calls from other teams.

                          Out of 8 regular positions, only 3 seemed set going into this season - Nimmo, Conforto and McNeil. You have to go with Rosario and hope he puts it together. Otherwise only Lugo was a reliable reliever. You literally needed to assemble a new bullpen. The rotation had no depth in case of injury.

                          So what do they do? They acquire the decline half of one of the worst contracts in baseball, and give up two top prospects for the privilege. Bobblehead King also displaces one of their 3 best position players, thereby nullifying his value. Incredibly, they then get a third second baseman. Off-season over.

                          Other than catcher, what real holes were filled? Broxton is a question mark. This is not a team built to handle a single injury at most positions.

                          Did anyone there remind Van Wilpon about "no ifs" when he mentioned Cespedes? Unfortunately, I doubt anyone who still spends money on season tickets is the type to confront these bamboozlers.

                          Instead of booing poor Dom Smith, the whole panel should have been booed off the stage.
                          Great Call on this one . Mongoose.. The panel should have been booed off stage..The Mets hyped Smith long before he was ready.. If anyone had taken the time to look at the early notes on Smith, they would have noticed that he was projected to give the Mets a GG at the position and be more of a RBI guy than a power hitter. As usual the Mets never gave him a chance to develop. I felt the Mets did the same with Wilmer.. Great player with some good offense but they never let him settle into a position and finally decided he was getting too expensive. Just bad management
                          North of the Big Apple but missing Central Fla :atthepc

                          Comment


                          • A typical Mets excuse..Machado wants the money which Capn Jeff will never part with. Harper knows better than to play for this organization
                            North of the Big Apple but missing Central Fla :atthepc

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by LI METS FAN View Post

                              Mongoose- I went to the Hot Stove Event tonight at Citi Field. Van Wagenen, Allard Baird, Omar, Adam Guttridge, with Gary Apple being the Moderator. Mr. Met was there, and frankly he gained a little weight over the winter.

                              Brodie asked who bought NEW season tickets after the changes to the roster. About 2 people raised their hands.

                              The crew spoke in particular about McNeil and Nimmo and how many teams inquired about them. They're keepers. Seth Lugo was asked about a lot as well.
                              Diaz is a stud, Ramos was impressive. They think McNeil can learn the outfield because he is a competitor. Frazier, Lowrie, McNeil, Davis can hold down the fort until Alonso gets there if he doesn't make the team out of spring training. (Frankly I think he'll get the "Kris Bryant treatment" as its now called).

                              Brodie believes Cespedes can be here later in the season, no commitments.

                              Allard Baird is new and coming off the WS win, and he's ready to start here in NY. Omar got the biggest applause and he's the old schooler. Adam Guttridge is the young brains of the group.

                              The only boos came when Dom Smith was mentioned. They met with him before Christmas and will give him an opportunity. Oh and groans over Vargas.
                              They foresee Rosario and Gimenez as the future one day.

                              I'm sure I'm forgetting some things.

                              We all know the starting pitching is the strength so that really didn't generate questions from the audience.
                              Just out of curiosity was Capn Jeff there?? I would be interested in what he had to say?? Nimmo I can see staying put. MacNeil?? Everybody is betting he's a HOF'er after 1 season? No comment about Cano?? No comments about the BP?? Interesting.

                              Baird spent a number of years trying to put together theRoyals. He gets credit for some of the building blocks but not the finished product. Agreed he was working on a shoe string budget in a small market. Wonder what he'll do with this budget?? Omar the Trade Maker reminds me of Frank Lane, the old GM from the '50-'60's.. A lot of hit and miss trades..He's always been a Capn Jeff favorite so it doesn't surprise me he's back..

                              Glad to see VWBug has high hopes for the return of Cespedes..I'd love to see him ride in and save the team..Let's wait and see who rides in..Cespedes or Todd Frazier
                              North of the Big Apple but missing Central Fla :atthepc

                              Comment

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