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  • Originally posted by Mongoose View Post
    Interesting tweet by Joel Sherman:

    https://twitter.com/Joelsherman1/sta...29233193869312

    "There's long been talk Fred Wilpon’s brother-in-law Sol Katz wanted out of the #Mets business and his children did not want to partner with Jeff Wilpon. There were going to be succession issues. This allows the Wilpons/Katzes to slowly sell to get $, stay in charge a bit longer."

    Looks like Jeffy's cousins don't like him either.
    I have a friend that played H.S. baseball with Jeffy. Nobody liked him back then either.

    It is tough to like a spoiled brat that is riding the coat tails of his evil father.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Paulypal View Post

      I mentioned yesterday that Joey Van Slick needs to dust off his resume and update it. Time to get rid of the dead weight.

      I dont think we can have anything negative seeping in right now.........like Snyder. The worst thing that ever happened to the Mets were the Wilpons. Getting rid of them is nothing but positive until proven otherwise.

      This is the best day in Mets history in about 30 years. Mets fans should feel like they were just acquitted of a criminal charge that they served 3 decades for doing, and now found innocent.

      I heard yesterday that Cohen's effect will be felt immediately, maybe not in full, but it will be felt. That is a very good thing. 5 years seems to long, but if it only becomes a title thing - so be it.
      The strangest thing I heard on the radio yesterday driving home was when Michael Kay noted the wealth of Cohen and said maybe it’s time for a salary cap in MLB.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by LI METS FAN View Post

        The strangest thing I heard on the radio yesterday driving home was when Michael Kay noted the wealth of Cohen and said maybe it’s time for a salary cap in MLB.
        I am not surprised.

        It is transparent but I will type it anyway.

        Yankee fans I believe (and this remains to be seen) do not want the Mets to be on even playing ground with the Yanks. I believe that is the last thing Hal Steinbrenner wants also.

        If this guy Cohen is going to spend big- this would be something the Steinbrenners never had to deal with from the cross town Mets.

        Now the Mets have (according to rumor) the richest owner in MLB that POS Kay wants a cap because someone can compete with his Yanks. For decades the Mets were 2nd class citizens in NY, and now they MAY .....MAY act like a big market team and someone like Kay who doesnt like competition suddenly wants a cap.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by LI METS FAN View Post

          The strangest thing I heard on the radio yesterday driving home was when Michael Kay noted the wealth of Cohen and said maybe it’s time for a salary cap in MLB.
          Have no fear... The player's union would rather sit out two whole seasons than accept a salary cap.
          20-Game Saturday Plan, Prom Box 423.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by dstoffa View Post

            Have no fear... The player's union would rather sit out two whole seasons than accept a salary cap.
            I only regret that I can give but one like to this post.

            Comment


            • Here's a piece of nonsense sanitizing the legacy of Fred and Jeff Coupon:

              https://www.espn.com/mlb/insider/sto...g-market-power

              M-E-T-$ impending sale could unleash a new big-money big market power

              by Buster Olney, ESPN Senior Writer


              Fred and Jeff Wilpon love baseball the way a 14-year-old loves video games, the way some folks are obsessed with cars and LeBron James cherishes basketball.

              Their ownership of the Mets is not a case of really wealthy people buying a sports yacht so they can show off for friends in a private-box party on summer nights. Rather, their passion for the game and all of its intricacies is real, and relentless. On any given afternoon, you can find Fred and/or Jeff hanging out behind a batting cage, leaning against the frame and chatting up coaches and players. And late at night after a game, a Wilpon might stick around to talk with the manager about what worked and what didn't. In my time covering baseball, I'm not sure I've met anyone who cherishes the game more than Fred Wilpon.

              That deep affection has proven to be problematic, because there have been a lot of moments when what the Mets' franchise and their fans have really needed was not Wilpon input on the hiring of a strength coach, or a hands-on discussion about minor-league development, but greater financial investment. With Steve Cohen's impending purchase of the team, announced Wednesday, there will be more money. Probably a lot more money. Because Cohen's got money in a way the Wilpons do not, and for the first time in the past 45 years, we could see the full potential of New York's National League franchise... (The rest of the article is behind a pay wall, but this is enough.)



              Fred always seemed to regard Mets ownership as

              a) access to a vast, personal piggy bank

              b) a lever to initiate giant, publicly funded real estate deals

              c) a power trip, in which he and his son could lord over men far more gifted than themselves.

              I never once noticed any love for the game. He collected washed up, big names to attract casual fans on the cheap, and cut corners everywhere else. That was at the core of his meddling. That and ridding the team of players who didn't meet his rigorous moral standards.

              Once he had massive guaranteed income, win or lose, from SNY, he felt free to run payrolls $60M-$100M below big market standards, every season. He diverted the bulk of Mets/SNY revenue into his pocket. He destroyed NL baseball in New York.

              The seeds of a lie are being spread. The idea a MLB team in the sport's largest market, in which ownership has its own TV network, can't financially compete with teams from Philadelphia and Houston, without a Steve Cohen is a lie. MLB team ownership, especially in New York, is a money printing press. But for Fred, priority #1 was to drain as much money from the team as possible.

              Fred appeared to love baseball like he loved Sandy Koufax, who he led into the Madoff debacle, while he fled out the back door carrying bags of loot.

              In other words, Fred's true love was always other people's money.




              "The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Mongoose View Post
                Here's a piece of nonsense sanitizing the legacy of Fred and Jeff Coupon:

                https://www.espn.com/mlb/insider/sto...g-market-power
                M-E-T-$ impending sale could unleash a new big-money big market power

                by Buster Olney, ESPN Senior Writer




                Fred and Jeff Wilpon love baseball the way a 14-year-old loves video games, the way some folks are obsessed with cars and LeBron James cherishes basketball.

                Their ownership of the Mets is not a case of really wealthy people buying a sports yacht so they can show off for friends in a private-box party on summer nights. Rather, their passion for the game and all of its intricacies is real, and relentless. On any given afternoon, you can find Fred and/or Jeff hanging out behind a batting cage, leaning against the frame and chatting up coaches and players. And late at night after a game, a Wilpon might stick around to talk with the manager about what worked and what didn't. In my time covering baseball, I'm not sure I've met anyone who cherishes the game more than Fred Wilpon.

                That deep affection has proven to be problematic, because there have been a lot of moments when what the Mets' franchise and their fans have really needed was not Wilpon input on the hiring of a strength coach, or a hands-on discussion about minor-league development, but greater financial investment. With Steve Cohen's impending purchase of the team, announced Wednesday, there will be more money. Probably a lot more money. Because Cohen's got money in a way the Wilpons do not, and for the first time in the past 45 years, we could see the full potential of New York's National League franchise... (The rest of the article is behind a pay wall, but this is enough.)



                Fred always seemed to regard Mets ownership as

                a) access to a vast, personal piggy bank

                b) a lever to initiate giant, publicly funded real estate deals

                c) a power trip, in which he and his son could lord over men far more gifted than themselves.

                I never once noticed any love for the game. He collected washed up, big names to attract casual fans on the cheap, and cut corners everywhere else. That was at the core of his meddling. That and ridding the team of players who didn't meet his rigorous moral standards.

                Once he had massive guaranteed income, win or lose, from SNY, he felt free to run payrolls $60M-$100M below big market standards, every season. He diverted the bulk of Mets/SNY revenue into his pocket. He destroyed NL baseball in New York.

                The seeds of a lie are being spread. The idea a MLB team in the sport's largest market, in which ownership has its own TV network, can't financially compete with teams from Philadelphia and Houston, without a Steve Cohen is a lie. MLB team ownership, especially in New York, is a money printing press. But for Fred, priority #1 was to drain as much money from the team as possible.

                Fred appeared to love baseball like he loved Sandy Koufax, who he led into the Madoff debacle, while he fled out the back door carrying bags of loot.

                In other words, Fred's true love was always other people's money.

                The one thing I've been reading lately that goes against your narrative is that much of the cash that has come in the past few years has gone to pay down massive debt, and that there is still massive debt. I don't have the passion that you do to do a deep dive into these things, but it could be that the end game of selling out is to retire the debt and retire themselves; just be done with all of this.

                How sad that it's come to the point that we are so anxious to get rid of these guys that we'd practically sign up for Charles Manson to buy the team. This Cohen guy doesn't sound like he ever got an A in ethics, but his name isn't Wilpon so it works.

                There have been some thoughtful articles (not hatchet jobs) in the Daily News the past couple of days on the Wilpon regime and also about how bringing in a billionaire isn't necessarily a salvation. ("These guys didn't get rich by writing checks".)

                There were some pretty good, though obvious observations about things like letting capable talent walk out the door as free agents, yet being perpetually absent from any worthwhile free agent pursuit. As a highlight, I think that the most spot on description of how the Mets operate, is that their annual cringe-worthy goal is to create a team that is "just good enough to lose, but make it look good". Yes. That captures it exactly.
                Last edited by Mister B.; 12-06-2019, 10:35 AM.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Mister B. View Post

                  The one thing I've been reading lately that goes against your narrative is that much of the cash that has come in the past few years has gone to pay down massive debt, and that there is still massive debt. I don't have the passion that you do to do a deep dive into these things, but it could be that the end game of selling out is to retire the debt and retire themselves; just be done with all of this.

                  How sad that it's come to the point that we are so anxious to get rid of these guys that we'd practically sign up for Charles Manson to buy the team. This Cohen guy doesn't sound like he ever got an A in ethics, but his name isn't Wilpon so it works.

                  There have been some thoughtful articles (not hatchet jobs) in the Daily News the past couple of days on the Wilpon regime and also about how bringing in a billionaire isn't necessarily a salvation. ("These guys didn't get rich by writing checks".)

                  There were some pretty good, though obvious observations about things like letting capable talent walk out the door as free agents, yet being perpetually absent from any worthwhile free agent pursuit. As a highlight, I think that the most spot on description of how the Mets operate, is that their annual cringe-worthy goal is to create a team that is "just good enough to lose, but make it look good". Yes. That captures it exactly.
                  There does come a time in Some wealthy people’s lives where the focus goes from accumulating wealth to philanthropy or their personal passions. Cohen gave 50mil to MOMA towards their recent expansion. Was it to get his name on the 6th floor collections exhibit? Probably. Yet you and I can benefit from seeing it.

                  This seems to be his opportunity to take advantage of the current owners issues. Will it be a better situation than the Mets are in currently? Sure hope so.


                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by LI METS FAN View Post

                    There does come a time in Some wealthy people’s lives where the focus goes from accumulating wealth to philanthropy or their personal passions. Cohen gave 50mil to MOMA towards their recent expansion. Was it to get his name on the 6th floor collections exhibit? Probably. Yet you and I can benefit from seeing it.

                    This seems to be his opportunity to take advantage of the current owners issues. Will it be a better situation than the Mets are in currently? Sure hope so.

                    Andrew Carnegie may be the most prominent example, or at least a prominent example.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Mister B. View Post

                      The one thing I've been reading lately that goes against your narrative is that much of the cash that has come in the past few years has gone to pay down massive debt, and that there is still massive debt. I don't have the passion that you do to do a deep dive into these things, but it could be that the end game of selling out is to retire the debt and retire themselves; just be done with all of this.

                      How sad that it's come to the point that we are so anxious to get rid of these guys that we'd practically sign up for Charles Manson to buy the team. This Cohen guy doesn't sound like he ever got an A in ethics, but his name isn't Wilpon so it works.

                      There have been some thoughtful articles (not hatchet jobs) in the Daily News the past couple of days on the Wilpon regime and also about how bringing in a billionaire isn't necessarily a salvation. ("These guys didn't get rich by writing checks".)

                      There were some pretty good, though obvious observations about things like letting capable talent walk out the door as free agents, yet being perpetually absent from any worthwhile free agent pursuit. As a highlight, I think that the most spot on description of how the Mets operate, is that their annual cringe-worthy goal is to create a team that is "just good enough to lose, but make it look good". Yes. That captures it exactly.
                      Post some links. As far as I know, the debt is on SNY, and hasn't been addressed yet.

                      We've discussed this before. I think the debt was $700M and Fred was paying 3% or 4% annually without trying to pay down the principal. It's been a decade since Madoff and the debt is still massive? Where have the annual 9 figure + SNY surpluses been going?

                      Stadium debt is reimbursed by a variety of other sources. Fred hardly paid anything for the stadium.

                      Fred has straight up pillaged an inherently profitable, big market team. This was unique in the annals of American sports. Fred is an anomaly. Don't let him poison your outlook. Remain objective, and bear in mind, nobody else becomes an owner to be "just good enough to lose, but make it look good".

                      By all accounts, Steve Cohen is a winner. He is used to winning and expects to win.

                      Read this article and allow yourself to feel good:


                      The other area Steve Cohen will help Mets catch up to Yankees




                      December 5, 2019 | 6:46pm | Updated December 5, 2019 | 7:49pm

                      Those who know and have worked with Steve Cohen describe a brilliant mind. That he has the ability not only to look at six or seven screens simultaneously and absorb all the information racing across, but that he can quickly assess how his competitors will react to the latest news, allowing him to pivot quicker to his fund’s benefit.


                      This helped Cohen amass a worth estimated at more than $13 billion, according to Forbes. That total has fixated Mets fans since word emerged Wednesday that the hedge fund giant was working toward an agreement to gain majority interest in the team over the next five years. After all, Mets fans have long pined for a deep-pocketed replacement for the Wilpons.


                      They should gain satisfaction because those who know Cohen expect him to invest heavily to upgrade the on-field product — that he has never been afraid to spend big on skilled people to improve his business. But those same folks who know him say the brilliant mind that exalts information and how to apply it will be just as large a factor.


                      Over the last 3-5 years, data science and quantitative analysis have hit the finance world with the force that Moneyball struck baseball 15-ish years ago. Cohen has built up his analytic department in that time the way, say, the Dodgers or Yankees have. He is an information junky when it comes to making a decision whether to invest in a company and at what level. He still values the human resources at his Point72 Asset Management, but sees the value of the blend and has spent lavishly in recent years to try arming his company with the best available data analysts.

                      The expectation is Cohen will do the same with the Mets — use his wallet not just to bolster the major league roster, but to modernize the whole operation.

                      One former associate said, “Anyone betting against him dominating in a statistical business doesn’t know his background.”
                      In recent years at Point72, Cohen has employed performance coaches to work with his portfolio managers to work in areas such as better sleep, nutrition and exercise as a way to improve work conditions, but also maximize performance. If it sounds familiar, these are areas the most advanced major league organizations have had their ever-expanding research and development groups and sports scientist teams delving into to gain competitive advantages. Brodie Van Wagenen has attempted to push the Mets toward greater emphasis in these realms, but the late start has the Mets lagging behind others such as the Rays, Dodgers, Astros and Yankees.

                      Cohen has the deep pockets to speed up this process. But also the passion.

                      He grew up a Mets fan, going back to home games at the Polo Grounds. His wife, Alexandra, is a fan as well. Cohen has long wanted to get in the business of sports team ownership, looking into the Jets at one point. But the Mets are his obsession.

                      Brian Cashman last season described the Yankees as “a fully operational death star” to encompass all they do behind the scenes to accrue and prepare talent. Those who know Cohen say his obsession will be to create something that outstrips the death star.

                      To that end, the former associate said, “His dream is to be ahead of the Yankees. He wants that footprint.”








                      This is the way it's supposed to be. It will be hard for us to expunge the last 34 years from our consciousness, but Fred was a mistake; a piece of bad luck that should never have happened. One or both NY NL teams always dominated the NL, going back to the dawn of MLB. Baseball began here with Alexander Cartwright and the Knickerbockers in 1845. It's a New York sport. New York's an NL town. The Mets being a power is the natural order of things.
                      Last edited by Mongoose; 12-06-2019, 12:47 PM.


                      "The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by PVNICK View Post

                        Andrew Carnegie may be the most prominent example, or at least a prominent example.
                        Great example. My mother grew up in western PA and her town had a library because of him.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Mongoose View Post

                          Post some links. As far as I know, the debt is on SNY, and hasn't been addressed yet.

                          We've discussed this before. I think the debt was $700M and Fred was paying 3% or 4% annually without trying to pay down the principal. It's been a decade since Madoff and the debt is still massive? Where have the annual 9 figure + SNY surpluses been going?

                          Stadium debt is reimbursed by a variety of other sources. Fred hardly paid anything for the stadium.

                          Fred has straight up pillaged an inherently profitable, big market team. This was unique in the annals of American sports. Fred is an anomaly. Don't let him poison your outlook. Remain objective, and bear in mind, nobody else becomes an owner to be "just good enough to lose, but make it look good".

                          By all accounts, Steve Cohen is a winner. He is used to winning and expects to win.
                          Working on the links. Can start here.

                          https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/b...k5a-story.html

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Mongoose View Post

                            Post some links. As far as I know, the debt is on SNY, and hasn't been addressed yet.

                            We've discussed this before. I think the debt was $700M and Fred was paying 3% or 4% annually without trying to pay down the principal. It's been a decade since Madoff and the debt is still massive? Where have the annual 9 figure + SNY surpluses been going?

                            Stadium debt is reimbursed by a variety of other sources. Fred hardly paid anything for the stadium.

                            Fred has straight up pillaged an inherently profitable, big market team. This was unique in the annals of American sports. Fred is an anomaly. Don't let him poison your outlook. Remain objective, and bear in mind, nobody else becomes an owner to be "just good enough to lose, but make it look good".

                            By all accounts, Steve Cohen is a winner. He is used to winning and expects to win.

                            Read this article and allow yourself to feel good:


                            The other area Steve Cohen will help Mets catch up to Yankees



                            December 5, 2019 | 6:46pm | Updated December 5, 2019 | 7:49pm
                            Those who know and have worked with Steve Cohen describe a brilliant mind. That he has the ability not only to look at six or seven screens simultaneously and absorb all the information racing across, but that he can quickly assess how his competitors will react to the latest news, allowing him to pivot quicker to his fund’s benefit.

                            This helped Cohen amass a worth estimated at more than $13 billion, according to Forbes. That total has fixated Mets fans since word emerged Wednesday that the hedge fund giant was working toward an agreement to gain majority interest in the team over the next five years. After all, Mets fans have long pined for a deep-pocketed replacement for the Wilpons.


                            They should gain satisfaction because those who know Cohen expect him to invest heavily to upgrade the on-field product — that he has never been afraid to spend big on skilled people to improve his business. But those same folks who know him say the brilliant mind that exalts information and how to apply it will be just as large a factor.

                            Over the last 3-5 years, data science and quantitative analysis have hit the finance world with the force that Moneyball struck baseball 15-ish years ago. Cohen has built up his analytic department in that time the way, say, the Dodgers or Yankees have. He is an information junky when it comes to making a decision whether to invest in a company and at what level. He still values the human resources at his Point72 Asset Management, but sees the value of the blend and has spent lavishly in recent years to try arming his company with the best available data analysts.
                            The expectation is Cohen will do the same with the Mets — use his wallet not just to bolster the major league roster, but to modernize the whole operation.
                            One former associate said, “Anyone betting against him dominating in a statistical business doesn’t know his background.”
                            In recent years at Point72, Cohen has employed performance coaches to work with his portfolio managers to work in areas such as better sleep, nutrition and exercise as a way to improve work conditions, but also maximize performance. If it sounds familiar, these are areas the most advanced major league organizations have had their ever-expanding research and development groups and sports scientist teams delving into to gain competitive advantages. Brodie Van Wagenen has attempted to push the Mets toward greater emphasis in these realms, but the late start has the Mets lagging behind others such as the Rays, Dodgers, Astros and Yankees.

                            Cohen has the deep pockets to speed up this process. But also the passion.

                            He grew up a Mets fan, going back to home games at the Polo Grounds. His wife, Alexandra, is a fan as well. Cohen has long wanted to get in the business of sports team ownership, looking into the Jets at one point. But the Mets are his obsession.

                            Brian Cashman last season described the Yankees as “a fully operational death star” to encompass all they do behind the scenes to accrue and prepare talent. Those who know Cohen say his obsession will be to create something that outstrips the death star.

                            To that end, the former associate said, “His dream is to be ahead of the Yankees. He wants that footprint.”









                            This is the way it's supposed to be. It will be hard for us to expunge the last 34 years from our consciousness, but Fred was a mistake; a piece of bad luck that should never have happened. One or both NY NL teams always dominated the NL, going back to the dawn of MLB. Baseball began here with Alexander Cartwright and the Knickerbockers in 1845. It's a New York sport. New York's an NL town. The Mets being a power is the natural order of things.
                            Good article.

                            Although trying to out-do the Yankees isnt the goal. Winning is the goal, but I like the idea that this guy is willing to go toe to toe with the Big Brother.

                            Hopefully we get some star power wearing a Met uniform on a consistent basis. Keep it interesting for the fans while giving a real effort to win baseball games. Something that for the past 3 decades we got on a very very sporadic basis..........if at all for large chunks of time.

                            I think we can all agree that as fans (no matter how waning) first and foremost you want to feel like the organization is as committed to winning as the fan base is. This is something that we havent seen for even 5 minutes in the past 3 decades.


                            Mongoose - If this guy is for real - which I believe/hope he is it upon fans like yourself, Mandrake, JJ, a few others, along with myself to close the book and look forward. Put the Wilscums in the rear view and drive fast.

                            I look forward to the day where we come on this forum and discuss baseball only with the other owner not being a factor because we all know he is on the same page as the fan base.
                            Last edited by Paulypal; 12-06-2019, 01:22 PM.

                            Comment


                            • Don't overlook links within the links

                              https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/b...o3u-story.html

                              Also:


                              "The Wilpon-era Mets, particularly since the Madoff scandal, have been hamstrung by the Wilpons’ apparently limited budget...Fred Wilpon himself admitted “We were still getting revenues, lots of revenues, but those revenues were going to pay off debt.”

                              Not entirely clear how current the debt reference is based on the above, but I inferred it was ongoing because it was tied to commentary about the ongoing limited budget and letting Wheeler go.





                              Last edited by Mister B.; 12-06-2019, 01:31 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Mister B. View Post

                                Working on the links. Can start here.

                                https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/b...k5a-story.html

                                Seems like she did a quick perusal of stuff other people wrote, and assembled it into an article she was assigned to write. The incident from Pedro's biography was famous. It was JEFF Wilpon who forced Pedro to pitch. This isn't a small slip-up. Jeff's injury management has been a much-discussed problem on this team for a decade and a half. If she doesn't know this, I don't trust her on anything.

                                Regarding debt, she apparently sources her info from the link she provides to a 5 year old Amazin' Avenue blog post, which in turn sources their info to Capital NY (a dead link). Field of Schemes published a spread sheet years ago, which documented how almost all Fred's stadium loan payments were reimbursed by either the public, Citicorp, or deductions from MLB revenue sharing. She suggests this is an out-of-pocket expense for poor Fred.

                                But there's not enough in the article or source to suggest any methodology for how her numbers were arrived at, so we'll have to use common sense. Total debt was reported, years ago, at $700M. How can Fred be paying $100M a year to service it, without putting a dent in the principal?


                                "The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!

                                Comment

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