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  • Originally posted by Mongoose View Post

    The correct analogy isn't about a girlfriend's parents. That supposes the girl is unaffected by the rotten parents. The Wilpons affect every aspect of the Mets experience. Rosters are always cut-rate: unfinished, at best, insulting to the fan base, at worst. Their formula revolves around declining, name players, to appeal to casual fans. Realistic ceiling = Wild Card 2, if everything goes right.

    Team culture = mean, petty leaks about personnel; trashing players out the door; underproducing gnomes and bobbleheads; aggressive hucksterism, from the commercials blared at the stadium between innings, to cold calls from ticket reps.

    A better analogy for the Wilpon era is Invasion of the Body Snatchers. In this film, aliens kill individual humans, and replace them with pod people, who look like the murdered humans, only without personalities or humanity. Ladies and gentlemen, your Wilpon era New York Mets.
    Dead parents, murdered humans, and body snatching. Usually I look forward to baseball season - I am no longer sure of that. It has become a Stephen King story.

    Either way - over the past decade plus I found myself rooting against them much more than for them. Which is a sad state of affairs no matter how you slice it.

    Regardless of what anyone thinks, believes or doesn't believe about that - it is balls on accurate. I can tell you right now if I had the choice of 100 wins or 100 losses and the Wilpons are in full control - I push the 100 loss button.

    Last edited by Paulypal; 12-15-2019, 04:50 PM.

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    • Originally posted by Paulypal View Post

      Dead parents, murdered humans, and body snatching. Usually I look forward to baseball season - I am no longer sure of that. It has become a Stephen King story.

      Either way - over the past decade plus I found myself rooting against them much more than for them. Which is a sad state of affairs no matter how you slice it.

      Regardless of what anyone thinks, believes or doesn't believe about that - it is balls on accurate. I can tell you right now if I had the choice of 100 wins or 100 losses and the Wilpons are in full control - I push the 100 loss button.
      Changing the subject just a little, it was reported in one of the Steve Cohen articles that the Mets lost $60M in each of the last 2 years. I notice they seem to be crippled in terms of payroll again. They have to cut and dump salaries just to sign a couple of bums for the rotation, while letting Wheeler walk.

      Just wondering... How is it the Phillies had comparable attendance, with a higher payroll, and are going out and buying top talent? One would think they'd be losing even more than the Mets.

      Is it possible that these "sources close to the Mets" are lying? Or there are financial shenanigans involved in the "loss". Or that local media doesn't bother to fact check anything they're told by these sources? Or that they're complicit in lying to the public?

      Where has this money gone?


      "The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Mongoose View Post

        Changing the subject just a little, it was reported in one of the Steve Cohen articles that the Mets lost $60M in each of the last 2 years. I notice they seem to be crippled in terms of payroll again. They have to cut and dump salaries just to sign a couple of bums for the rotation, while letting Wheeler walk.

        Just wondering... How is it the Phillies had comparable attendance, with a higher payroll, and are going out and buying top talent? One would think they'd be losing even more than the Mets.

        Is it possible that these "sources close to the Mets" are lying? Or there are financial shenanigans involved in the "loss". Or that local media doesn't bother to fact check anything they're told by these sources? Or that they're complicit in lying to the public?

        Where has this money gone?

        Thanks for the pic again. Right in line with the Stephen King theme. Fred looks like he is admiring his work of sucking the blood and life out of another victim.

        They wonder why I cant root for this team while that less than human, his disgusting kin and offspring are present.

        I wonder how anyone can root for them. You need to overlook a lot to do so. The word METS on a shirt doesnt do it for me.

        Of course there are shenanigans going on. I have seen it my whole career. Companies moving Balance Sheet items around to expense the P & L to show a loss or not as much of a gain to alleviate the tax liability.

        Last edited by Paulypal; 12-16-2019, 08:28 AM.

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        • Originally posted by Mongoose View Post

          Changing the subject just a little, it was reported in one of the Steve Cohen articles that the Mets lost $60M in each of the last 2 years. I notice they seem to be crippled in terms of payroll again. They have to cut and dump salaries just to sign a couple of bums for the rotation, while letting Wheeler walk.

          Just wondering... How is it the Phillies had comparable attendance, with a higher payroll, and are going out and buying top talent? One would think they'd be losing even more than the Mets.

          Is it possible that these "sources close to the Mets" are lying? Or there are financial shenanigans involved in the "loss". Or that local media doesn't bother to fact check anything they're told by these sources? Or that they're complicit in lying to the public?

          Where has this money gone? [CENTER]

          The annual "loss" is not all cash out the door. For example, the original stadium cost was $850M which when depreciated over 39 years is $22M per year right there.

          Rules are more generous now so when you do a capital improvement such as building the First Data Club, it's immediately deductible and adds to the "loss" even though the related asset becomes more valuable, like when one makes a capital improvement to one's home.


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          • Originally posted by Paulypal View Post

            Thanks for the pic again. Right in line with the Stephen King theme. Fred looks like he is admiring his work of sucking the blood and life out of another victim.

            They wonder why I cant root for this team while that less than human, his disgusting kin and offspring are present.

            I wonder how anyone can root for them. You need to overlook a lot to do so. The word METS on a shirt doesnt do it for me.

            Of course there are shenanigans going on. I have seen it my whole career. Companies moving Balance Sheet items around to expense the P & L to show a loss or not as much of a gain to alleviate the tax liability.
            Actually, Paul, I have to wonder why you post in a forum for Met fans when you're not a fan.
            Put it in the books.

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            • Originally posted by milladrive View Post

              Actually, Paul, I have to wonder why you post in a forum for Met fans when you're not a fan.
              good point - although not a die hard fan, but in the upper echelon of honest NY Met observers. I am not hypnotized by "Mets" on the front of a shirt. They do not walk on water when they wear such garb.

              The ownership has pulled the wool over the fan base with blinders on for decades so yep I rather them lose to force change than half-ass it and make the playoffs every 10 years. If they never sell - then I hope they never win a thing. I wont have to worry - they wont.

              Maybe that actually makes me an upper echelon fan now that I think about it. Maybe if everyone felt that way the fan base wouldnt have fed the machine and we may be in a different situation. Maybe the Mets would be a winning organization.

              I know I know -- its not about the owners its about the players on the fiel. Keep telling yourself that - it sounds great.

              Why do I post here? Simple -- where in sports can you team perform they way you want every season? I have that with the Mets. They dont win - very satisfying for me. The Wilpon owned Mets never disappoint me. I get exactly what I expect -- Jake Marisnick, Rick Porcello, Max Maroff, Jarret Parker and Wacha. Now if and when Cohen takes over - I am in the same boat as any other fan (which I will be) - hoping for wins, and suffering disappointments. That assumes Cohen puts an honest effort into winning.
              Last edited by Paulypal; 12-16-2019, 01:13 PM.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Mongoose View Post

                The correct analogy isn't about a girlfriend's parents. That supposes the girl is unaffected by the rotten parents. The Wilpons affect every aspect of the Mets experience. Rosters are always cut-rate: unfinished, at best, insulting to the fan base, at worst. Their formula revolves around declining, name players, to appeal to casual fans. Realistic ceiling = Wild Card 2, if everything goes right.

                Team culture = mean, petty leaks about personnel; trashing players out the door; underproducing gnomes and bobbleheads; aggressive hucksterism, from the commercials blared at the stadium between innings, to cold calls from ticket reps.

                A better analogy for the Wilpon era is Invasion of the Body Snatchers. In this film, aliens kill individual humans, and replace them with pod people, who look like the murdered humans, only without personalities or humanity. Ladies and gentlemen, your Wilpon era New York Mets.
                Mongoose, unlike the original movies which were great scifi's, the wilpon version is pure garbage..Unfortunately, it's the Wilpon version we have to watch over and over again
                North of the Big Apple but missing Central Fla :atthepc

                Comment


                • Originally posted by milladrive View Post

                  Actually, Paul, I have to wonder why you post in a forum for Met fans when you're not a fan.
                  Au Contraire, Mets fans come in many different flavors. Pauly is just a "Unique" flavor of a Mets fan
                  North of the Big Apple but missing Central Fla :atthepc

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by brooklynboy View Post

                    Au Contraire, Mets fans come in many different flavors. Pauly is just a "Unique" flavor of a Mets fan
                    Sorry, but rooting against a group of players competing in a sport is hardly being a fan of that team.

                    I get it. I know he's a fan. And we're all "unique." One of my dearest friends is a killjoy who constantly speaks for the worst but is only too happy to accept a better outcome. That's it in a nutshell. Outwardly hoping for losses makes it easier to stomach them. A few wins and that holier-than-thou reason for losing is out the window.
                    Put it in the books.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by milladrive View Post

                      Sorry, but rooting against a group of players competing in a sport is hardly being a fan of that team.

                      I get it. I know he's a fan. And we're all "unique." One of my dearest friends is a killjoy who constantly speaks for the worst but is only too happy to accept a better outcome. That's it in a nutshell. Outwardly hoping for losses makes it easier to stomach them. A few wins and that holier-than-thou reason for losing is out the window.
                      I can spin it that rooting for a Wilpon owned team who had done nothing but damage the organization for 3+ decades is not being a fan either. Its promoting less than human behavior.

                      I want them gone so we get an owner that will provide us with a competitive large market team because I feel that is what we deserve.

                      You are ok obviously with what has happened as you fall into the same mouse trap again and again. Rooting for players that are less than other teams players overall because that is what you were provided. Especially when said team can easily have a great run organization but opts not to.

                      My plan is a little more long term.

                      Yeah hoping for losses makes it easier to stomach. Laughable - yes that is my agenda. I am so broken up by losses. You really dont have any idea.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Paulypal View Post

                        I can spin it that rooting for a Wilpon owned team who had done nothing but damage the organization for 3+ decades is not being a fan either. Its promoting less than human behavior.

                        I want them gone so we get an owner that will provide us with a competitive large market team because I feel that is what we deserve.

                        You are ok obviously with what has happened as you fall into the same mouse trap again and again. Rooting for players that are less than other teams players overall because that is what you were provided. Especially when said team can easily have a great run organization but opts not to.

                        My plan is a little more long term.

                        Yeah hoping for losses makes it easier to stomach. Laughable - yes that is my agenda. I am so broken up by losses. You really dont have any idea.
                        You seem to think I'm spinning this. I'm not. Being a fan of a sports team is rooting for them to win! It's that simple. Rooting for them to lose is the opposite of that!

                        I don't want my favorite musical artists putting out crappy unsuccessful albums just because I don't like their label, manager, producer, etc., and don't wanna see pictures of the gold record hanging on that evil person's wall.

                        I repeat: I know you're a fan. A few wins and that holier-than-thou reason for losing is out the window.

                        How dare you undermine anyone else's hatred for the Wilpons. This isn't about who's a better fan, my friend. It's more about the alienation you leave in your wake. When someone explains how their fandom differs from yours, they're gullible, hypnotized, haven't a clue, and think the players "walk on water"? Pff.

                        I'm sick of this. No one owes us a winning team. We deserve nothing.
                        Put it in the books.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by milladrive View Post

                          Sorry, but rooting against a group of players competing in a sport is hardly being a fan of that team.

                          I get it. I know he's a fan. And we're all "unique." One of my dearest friends is a killjoy who constantly speaks for the worst but is only too happy to accept a better outcome. That's it in a nutshell. Outwardly hoping for losses makes it easier to stomach them. A few wins and that holier-than-thou reason for losing is out the window.
                          Exactly. You don't have to be a cynic to be a Mets fan, but it helps. A true cynic is never disappointed.
                          They call me Mr. Baseball. Not because of my love for the game; because of all the stitches in my head.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by milladrive View Post

                            You seem to think I'm spinning this. I'm not. Being a fan of a sports team is rooting for them to win! It's that simple. Rooting for them to lose is the opposite of that!

                            I don't want my favorite musical artists putting out crappy unsuccessful albums just because I don't like their label, manager, producer, etc., and don't wanna see pictures of the gold record hanging on that evil person's wall.

                            I repeat: I know you're a fan. A few wins and that holier-than-thou reason for losing is out the window.

                            How dare you undermine anyone else's hatred for the Wilpons. This isn't about who's a better fan, my friend. It's more about the alienation you leave in your wake. When someone explains how their fandom differs from yours, they're gullible, hypnotized, haven't a clue, and think the players "walk on water"? Pff.

                            I'm sick of this. No one owes us a winning team. We deserve nothing.
                            Well its been a long long time and I have had a couple of times over that decade plus where I was rooting for them to win. Very few. That doesn't mean I haven't enjoyed certain games and wins along the way. Overall - Ill take the losses over wins.

                            You can call it whatever you like -- holier than thou or whatever else you want. You can think its a defense mechanism so losses don't hurt. (BTW - do losses hurt you?)

                            I say this if you think those things - YOU HAVE NO CLUE. ZERO. I wanted them to lose for one reason - to force ownership change. Ownership change for me means a win for the Mets.

                            Your favorite band record label analogy makes ZERO SENSE and once again shows you don't have a clue about what I am talking about. If you cant grasp it that is fine, but stop beating the dead horse, and making what I feel something that you can understand. Clearly you cant.

                            The record label or manager doesn't dictate the talent they want in the band. Do they? When Aerosmith showed up at their record labels door did they say well we cant afford Steven Tyler so we will replace him with Joe Smith. Did they? No they wanted the best band possible to sell records-- so try something else.

                            I am not undermining anything - you insisted that I am being a fraud in my rooting against the team. It is you my friend undermining what I think and what I want. You say you hate the Wilpons but must root because it says Mets on the shirt. Ok terrific. I cant understand that as one is destroying your enjoyment of the other, so be it - that is your way - not mine.

                            You are the one that had a baby because my fandom is different than yours. You used terms to describe me as holier than thou, and how I use my fandom as a defense mechanism without having the first clue about me.

                            So yeah I am of sick of it too.

                            You root the way you want and I will do the same. When we get an organization that has winning as a priority I will root for them to win until then not so much.
                            Last edited by Paulypal; 12-17-2019, 04:51 AM.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by ol' aches and pains View Post
                              Exactly. You don't have to be a cynic to be a Mets fan, but it helps. A true cynic is never disappointed.
                              Yeah that would be a great explanation if it were accurate, but it isn't.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Paulypal View Post

                                Yeah that would be a great explanation if it were accurate, but it isn't.
                                It works for me, most of the time.
                                They call me Mr. Baseball. Not because of my love for the game; because of all the stitches in my head.

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