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  • Minaya And Player Development

    http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba..._farm_aid.html

  • #2
    Lousy article. The Buffalo Bisons aren't their only minor league team. Most of their prospects are in the lower levels.

    Philip Humber was not released. He was DFA'd, cleared waivers, and reported to AAA.

    Heilman and Endy could not have been major cogs in the Putz trade. The Mariners spun off Heilman to the Cubs within a month and Endy is nothing but a 4th OF.

    The Mets deserve criticism for not paying above slot in the draft. They need to do it before MLB changes it.
    Last edited by NYMets523; 06-30-2009, 12:42 AM.
    "I'm happy for [Edwin Encarnacion] because this guy bleeds internally, big-time" -Dusty Baker

    "If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it on the scoreboard?" -Jeff Francoeur

    "At the end of the day, the sun comes up and I still have a job" -Joba Chamberlain

    Comment


    • #3
      [QUOTE=NYMets523;1553021]Lousy article. The Buffalo Bisons aren't their only minor league team. Most of their prospects are in the lower levels.

      Binghamtom was also mentioned and their terrible as well. You should read the entire article and not speculate.

      Philip Humber was not released. He was DFA'd, cleared waivers, and reported to AAA.

      Who cares he's not helping the Twins.

      Heilman and Endy could not have been major cogs in the Putz trade. The Mariners spun off Heilman to the Cubs within a month and Endy is nothing but a 4th OF.

      The facts are Heilman and Chavez were included in the three team deal. The fact Chavez is a fourth outfielder did not have anything to do with the deal being completed for Putz, who incidentally is on the disabled list.

      The Mets deserve criticism for not paying above slot in the draft. They need to do it before MLB changes it.[/QUOTE]

      The Mets deserve criticism for not utilizing the draft to their advantage. The Red Sox under Theo Epstein have done a masterful job of it. They have two rings to prove it. Under Minaya the Mets have won absolutely nothing.

      Comment


      • #4
        the mets are talented as hell in the lower levels right now.....unfortunatley that doesnt equate to a high farm ranking......and sorry but sportswriters dont follow the minor league system.....i'd be anything that the guy who wrote that article has no clue who Mejia and Flores are.


        I'm not saying our system is top 10....its absolutely not. But it's not nearly as bad as the common thought thinks it is.
        "all the mets road wins against the dodgers this year have occured at Dodger Stadium"---Ralph Kiner

        "Blind people came to the park just to listen to him pitch"---Reggie Jackson, talking about Tom Seaver

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by GIANT View Post
          Binghamtom was also mentioned and their terrible as well. You should read the entire article and not speculate.
          Minor league records mean very little in my opinion, especially AAA which is made up largely of journeymen on their last legs. That Mike Lamb, Chip Ambres, Javier Valentin, Brandon Knight and Kyle Snyder can't lead Buffalo to the promised land frankly has very little to do with the Mets future. If you look at the actual prospects in AAA, Martinez was doing very well before the callup, Gee and Kunz have pitched well and Niese has been great in his past few starts since the demotion.

          In terms of Binghamton, despite their record, the three best offensive prospects there (Tejada, Thole and Davis) are all having good to very good years. For there pitching, Antonini and Owen have struggled, but Stoner has been very good, along with 4 solid starts from Mejia (who is a 19 year old in AA).

          When you add the lower level talent (Holt, Flores, Marte etc.), the farm system isn't great but its nowhere near as bad as many are making it out to be.

          Originally posted by GIANT View Post
          Who cares he's not helping the Twins.
          The fact is Minaya put Humber in a trade to obtain the best pitcher in baseball...not sure how that can be used against him


          Originally posted by GIANT View Post
          The Mets deserve criticism for not utilizing the draft to their advantage. The Red Sox under Theo Epstein have done a masterful job of it. They have two rings to prove it. Under Minaya the Mets have won absolutely nothing.
          It certainly makes it a lot easier to use the draft as a tool when price tag is not an issue. Being unwilling to go overslot acts as a huge hindrance when trying to add high upside talent through the draft
          Last edited by jsmets92; 06-30-2009, 02:16 PM.
          "All shortstops can dance...Derek Jeter is a fullback with power and speed. Jose Reyes is a tailback with speed and quickness"-"analysis" of the New York shortstops' defense by the genius that is Joe Morgan

          Comment


          • #6
            Minor league records mean very little in my opinion, especially AAA which is made up largely of. That Mike Lamb, Chip Ambres, Javier Valentin, Brandon Knight and Kyle Snyder can't lead Buffalo to the promised land frankly has very little to do with the Mets future. If you look at the actual prospects in AAA, Martinez was doing very well before the callup, Gee and Kunz have pitched well and Niese has been great in his past few starts since the demotion.


            The fact is the Mets have not recalled Kunz and Gee. Why? Murphy and Parnell Evans and Martinez are there and they are unproven minor leaguers. The Mets rotation is faltering yet retread Fernando Nieve gets recalled. Why wasn't Niese recalled or Gee provided an opportunity?


            In terms of Binghamton, despite their record, the three best offensive prospects there (Tejada, Thole and Davis) are all having good to very good years. For there pitching, Antonini and Owen have struggled, but Stoner has been very good, along with 4 solid starts from Mejia (who is a 19 year old in AA).[/B]

            In talking with scouts, they are of the opinion that none of these players you mentioned are high end major league players. They told me that Minaya uses the words "it has to be a fit" to make a trade to improve the current roster is hinderd by their dearth of propects, which the article clearly points out.


            When you add the lower level talent (Holt, Flores, Marte etc.), the farm system isn't great but its nowhere near as bad as many are making it out to be.

            I disagree, it hasn't been an asset it has been a liability.


            The fact is Minaya put Humber in a trade to obtain the best pitcher in baseball...not sure how that can be used against him

            The point of the article was not the inclusion of Humber in the trade but his failure to be a productive major league pitcher. Frankly, the Twins panicked and should have taken the Yankees offer which included Phillip Hughes. Humber was a late round choice by the Mets who hurt his arm. Billy Smith, Twins GM was under pressure to move Santana. He made a mistake and accepted the Mets offer, which was not the best offer.


            It certainly makes it a lot easier to use the draft as a tool when price tag is not an issue. Being unwilling to go overslot acts as a huge hindrance when trying to add high upside talent through the draft[/QUOTE]

            So you wouldn't draft Steven Strasberg number one because he couldn't be slotted. Slotting is for low revenue teams. The Mets have huge revenue sources they need to better assess talent. The Red Sox a high revenue team have drafted well and have won. As the article indicates the Mets have relied entirely too much on the Dominican Academy to their detriment.

            Comment


            • #7
              When you add the lower level talent (Holt, Flores, Marte etc.), the farm system isn't great but its nowhere near as bad as many are making it out to be.
              Exactly. Holt and Mejia, the team's two best pitching prospects, have both recently been promoted to AA and have continued to pitch well. Flores and Marte, arguably our top two hitting prospects are still in low A ball but both are holding their own against players 2-3 years older than they are.

              My guess is that the reason that Omar hasn't made a trade for Adam Dunn or anyone else who might be available is that teams are asking for these players because they know that they have Omar over a barrel and desperate.

              I'm guessing that the Mets are willing to part with Niese, Kunz and Evans in the right deal but not Martinez, Parnell or the aforementioned foursome. I wouldn't move any of those guys either for an overpriced contract or a rental player.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by GIANT View Post
                Slotting is for low revenue teams...
                Slotting is for fiscal sanity, and to help small market teams afford the best talent. If other teams pay over slot, then the best players will fall to them because of outrageous demands.

                I'd like to see a little more competitive balance in baseball.

                Originally posted by GIANT View Post
                As the article indicates the Mets have relied entirely too much on the Dominican Academy to their detriment.
                I disagree. The Mets have not done enough per signing international amateur free agents. To the best of my knowledge they have exceeded a $1 million signing bonus ony twice, $1.1+ million for Jae Seo and $1.6 million for Fernando Martinez.

                The Mets have made a habit of signing players for $400,000 to $500,000 - which is not chump change, but since they have often forfeited their top picks in the draft, I'd like to see them add a few high-profile bonus babies. Not all work out of course, ala Joel Guzman, but they still add depth to the system which makes making trades easier.

                For example, http://www.baseballamerica.com/today...09/268441.html

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by tomzpc View Post
                  Exactly. Holt and Mejia, the team's two best pitching prospects, have both recently been promoted to AA and have continued to pitch well. Flores and Marte, arguably our top two hitting prospects are still in low A ball but both are holding their own against players 2-3 years older than they are.
                  Marte had been struggling significantly, but picked it up recently, batting .270+ in June.

                  Flores has really picked it up over the past 10+ games. He's raised his average about 20 points while batting .300+.

                  I used to live in Savannah and was able to catch a lot of players coming through, but mostly with the Capital City/Columbia Bombers. First time I saw Reyes, he hit a triple to lead off a game.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by GIANT View Post

                    The fact is the Mets have not recalled Kunz and Gee. Why? Murphy and Parnell Evans and Martinez are there and they are unproven minor leaguers. The Mets rotation is faltering yet retread Fernando Nieve gets recalled. Why wasn't Niese recalled or Gee provided an opportunity?
                    There is something to be said to be for letting players develop. Gee has made 13 starts in his career above A ball. He is doing well in AAA but there is no reason to rush him. For Niese, he's shown when he's been with the big club that there are going to be growing pains and they obviously feel its better that he gets more experience in AAA. If guys like Nieve and Livan were floundering, it might make sense to give him the job, but they have held the fort for now. The bullpen has not been a huge issue so Kunz hasn't really been needed.


                    Originally posted by GIANT View Post
                    In talking with scouts, they are of the opinion that none of these players you mentioned are high end major league players. They told me that Minaya uses the words "it has to be a fit" to make a trade to improve the current roster is hinderd by their dearth of propects, which the article clearly points out.
                    Davis is potentially a high-level prospect as is Mejia. The other guys are not as high-level but certainly have some value. The main point I was making is the record of a minor league team is not really indicative of the prospects who are on it.

                    Originally posted by GIANT View Post
                    So you wouldn't draft Steven Strasberg number one because he couldn't be slotted. Slotting is for low revenue teams. The Mets have huge revenue sources they need to better assess talent. The Red Sox a high revenue team have drafted well and have won. As the article indicates the Mets have relied entirely too much on the Dominican Academy to their detriment.
                    No, I'm saying that they by not going over slot they are handcuffing themselves. I think its more likely that this comes from ownership and can't be placed on Minaya. Also, they have gotten Flores, Martinez, Gomez, Tejada, Mejia, Guerra, Pena and Puello from the DR just to name a few, I wouldn't say that the academy has worked to their detriment.
                    Last edited by jsmets92; 06-30-2009, 03:34 PM.
                    "All shortstops can dance...Derek Jeter is a fullback with power and speed. Jose Reyes is a tailback with speed and quickness"-"analysis" of the New York shortstops' defense by the genius that is Joe Morgan

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Im not sure which scout you spoke to but most scouts absolutely LOVE Mejia...and he will absolutely be one of the game's best pitching prospects very soon.

                      19 years and pitching well in AA is very rare. The guy has fantastic stuff.
                      "all the mets road wins against the dodgers this year have occured at Dodger Stadium"---Ralph Kiner

                      "Blind people came to the park just to listen to him pitch"---Reggie Jackson, talking about Tom Seaver

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        "Binghamtom was also mentioned and their terrible as well. You should read the entire article and not speculate."

                        The only thing mentioned is their record.

                        "Who cares he's not helping the Twins."

                        It shows poor fact checking.

                        "The facts are Heilman and Chavez were included in the three team deal. The fact Chavez is a fourth outfielder did not have anything to do with the deal being completed for Putz, who incidentally is on the disabled list."

                        Heilman and Chavez weren't major pieces to the trade and they weren't players we were going to miss. Heilman has always been unhappy here and was bad last year. Endy is a 4th OF, nothing special. They didn't know Putz was going to be injured.

                        "The Mets deserve criticism for not utilizing the draft to their advantage. The Red Sox under Theo Epstein have done a masterful job of it. They have two rings to prove it. Under Minaya the Mets have won absolutely nothing."

                        Epstein had the luxury of a lot of expiring contracts such as Pedro, Lowe, and Damon within a short period of time.
                        "I'm happy for [Edwin Encarnacion] because this guy bleeds internally, big-time" -Dusty Baker

                        "If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it on the scoreboard?" -Jeff Francoeur

                        "At the end of the day, the sun comes up and I still have a job" -Joba Chamberlain

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by NYMets523 View Post
                          "Binghamtom was also mentioned and their terrible as well. You should read the entire article and not speculate." -- OP

                          The only thing mentioned is their record. -- NYMets523
                          I agree that using won/loss to evaluate the talent on a team in the minors is not very smart.

                          The Mets have a number of decent prospects at Binghamton. They may or may not not be All-Star caliber, but they might contribute at the MLB level. Mejia, Davis, and Holt have the highest ceilings and would be on a Top Ten list of Mets prospects.

                          Josh Thole
                          Emmanuel Garcia
                          Ike Davis
                          Ruben Tejada
                          Toby Stoner
                          Jenrry Mejia
                          Brad Holt
                          Last edited by ReyesOfHope; 07-06-2009, 07:55 AM.

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