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  • jjpm74
    replied
    Bartolo Colon's home run just shot into my top ten. Anyone else?

    Leave a comment:


  • Paulypal
    replied
    Originally posted by Mongoose View Post
    I wish I held the future in my memory. 1969 must have been astounding to see. I'm not sure which posters here were old enough to remember it clearly.

    For me the 1985 team was great. They played well down the stretch. I still don't understand how they didn't win the division. If Seaver was still on the team they would have made the playoffs and probably won the W.S. considering Gooden was invincible that year. They played and won some wild games too. The July 4th game comes to mind. I wonder if anyone recorded that one. It was too long for just one videotape.
    Originally posted by Mongoose View Post
    I was just thinking about Willie Mays. I remember him as a Met a little. I was a kid and a bit too young to really be a knowledgeable fan. I can't argue with anyone who thinks he was the best ever. I lean more towards Honus Wagner because he dominated on both sides of the ball at shortstop. Mays did play in a more competitive era than Wagner, Cobb and Ruth though. Even as a Met his OPS was .746. for an OPS+ of 112.

    Does anyone remember much about his service with the Mets or Giants in New York?

    Finally, on a subject we discussed earlier, I found this interesting. Look at all the pictures of the top 20 single season leaders in rWAR and look at who the only player with a color photograph is; one of only two 20th Century players:

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/le...R_season.shtml


    Wow.

    If anyone recorded the 1985 July 4th game they would have run out of VHS tape. That game was just insane.

    I just don't understand how anyone can say how Babe Ruth isn't the greatest player ever. Dominant pitcher, then the greatest hitter ever. Sorry Ted Williams. Ruth is the all time leader in SLG/OPS/OPS+. He out homered teams. Just crazy numbers. I understand Ruth, Cobb, Wagner played before the color barrier was broken, but I think you can only judge the players by who/when they played.

    Leave a comment:


  • Shea Knight
    replied
    "Wilmer Flores Night at Citi Field" might be my new favorite all-time Mets Game I Actually Watched Live...

    The circumstances of the previous couple nights, the fact that Cespedes was coming and so there was that anticipation there, Matt Harvey started and was on (always a plus for me ), vs. the Nationals, that it was THE game on which the whole season turned, from hanging on for dear life in the race to taking off and winning the pennant, so much of happened before and afterwards seems to hinge on that one series and that one game...it had a ridiculously storybook ending and hero with Wilmer's HR...a definite Mets memory.

    Leave a comment:


  • jjpm74
    replied
    Watching Mike Piazza's 9/11 jersey get auctioned off so that the Wilpons could bag an extra $50K.

    In all seriousness, I was there in person when the Billy Buckner ball went under his legs. That was a great event! Prior to that would be the first time I saw Dwight Gooden pitch as a rookie. I couldn't believe that he had the velocity and control he had.

    I also really want to say the subway World Series, but that was just so painful to watch.
    Last edited by jjpm74; 04-09-2016, 01:26 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mongoose
    replied
    I was just thinking about Willie Mays. I remember him as a Met a little. I was a kid and a bit too young to really be a knowledgeable fan. I can't argue with anyone who thinks he was the best ever. I lean more towards Honus Wagner because he dominated on both sides of the ball at shortstop. Mays did play in a more competitive era than Wagner, Cobb and Ruth though. Even as a Met his OPS was .746. for an OPS+ of 112.

    Does anyone remember much about his service with the Mets or Giants in New York?

    Finally, on a subject we discussed earlier, I found this interesting. Look at all the pictures of the top 20 single season leaders in rWAR and look at who the only player with a color photograph is; one of only two 20th Century players:

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/le...R_season.shtml

    Wow.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mongoose
    replied
    Originally posted by LI METS FAN View Post
    That would be 2016. Unless 2017 tops it, too soon to tell.
    I wish I held the future in my memory. 1969 must have been astounding to see. I'm not sure which posters here were old enough to remember it clearly.

    For me the 1985 team was great. They played well down the stretch. I still don't understand how they didn't win the division. If Seaver was still on the team they would have made the playoffs and probably won the W.S. considering Gooden was invincible that year. They played and won some wild games too. The July 4th game comes to mind. I wonder if anyone recorded that one. It was too long for just one videotape.

    Leave a comment:


  • LI METS FAN
    replied
    Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
    I am going to assume this was the game with the Knight/Davis brawl at 3rd base.

    A few things that stand out about that game just from memory are (besides the bench clearing brawl) is the dropped can o' corn by Dave Parker to extend the game. Probably the worst play of his career.

    Davey Johnson swapping Orosco/McDowell from the mound & right field because Strawberry got tossed as he was in the middle of every scuffle. Of course there was the game winning homer by HoJo. This game was one of the craziest games ever played by the Mets.

    No matter what happens as a Met fan most of us on this board will always have the memories of 1986. It wasnt just the WS win it was the way they won games. I can easily see hating them if you weren't a fan. I mean seriously hating them. I remember the July 3rd game (yes I remember the date of this one)- Strawberry homers in the 9th (off of Kerfeld - Astros to tie it and Knight homers to win it. McCarver says "the Mets are spreading the news that they are the dominant team in baseball..........in either league". The "double play" in San Diego where Dykstra throws someone out at the plate and then they get a runner going to third to end the game. McCarver says "the Mets end the game with a double play, just your routine double play"

    Teams hated the Mets because of the curtain calls. Seemed there were multiple curtain calls on a nightly basis at Shea. Other teams hated the Mets. It was just awesome to see. I remember Gary Carter coming out for a curtain call every time he homered at home. Carter loved the attention and wasn't going to let it slip past him.

    The team was arrogant....the fans were just as arrogant.....hell the base coaches were arrogant. How many base coached start a brawl? See Bill Robinson.

    That is why although I will always be a Mets fan and follow them every other Met team that has followed has paled in comparison - and I mean its not even close. The 1999-2000 Piazza led teams were like Girl Scouts compared to the 1986 team. I can say the same for the current team. I understand that the game has changed since them but when you have Doc pitching, Straw, Keith, Carter in the middle of the order, Knights temper, the rest of the pitching staff, and just how off center this team was....it made for true entertainment along with guys that can play great baseball.

    So I just hope to one day see the 2nd best Met team ever.
    That would be 2016. Unless 2017 tops it, too soon to tell.

    Leave a comment:


  • Paulypal
    replied
    Originally posted by Mongoose View Post
    Here's another:

    You'll probably remember this. It was memorable.

    Enjoy.
    I am going to assume this was the game with the Knight/Davis brawl at 3rd base.

    A few things that stand out about that game just from memory are (besides the bench clearing brawl) is the dropped can o' corn by Dave Parker to extend the game. Probably the worst play of his career.

    Davey Johnson swapping Orosco/McDowell from the mound & right field because Strawberry got tossed as he was in the middle of every scuffle. Of course there was the game winning homer by HoJo. This game was one of the craziest games ever played by the Mets.

    No matter what happens as a Met fan most of us on this board will always have the memories of 1986. It wasnt just the WS win it was the way they won games. I can easily see hating them if you weren't a fan. I mean seriously hating them. I remember the July 3rd game (yes I remember the date of this one)- Strawberry homers in the 9th (off of Kerfeld - Astros to tie it and Knight homers to win it. McCarver says "the Mets are spreading the news that they are the dominant team in baseball..........in either league". The "double play" in San Diego where Dykstra throws someone out at the plate and then they get a runner going to third to end the game. McCarver says "the Mets end the game with a double play, just your routine double play"

    Teams hated the Mets because of the curtain calls. Seemed there were multiple curtain calls on a nightly basis at Shea. Other teams hated the Mets. It was just awesome to see. I remember Gary Carter coming out for a curtain call every time he homered at home. Carter loved the attention and wasn't going to let it slip past him.

    The team was arrogant....the fans were just as arrogant.....hell the base coaches were arrogant. How many base coached start a brawl? See Bill Robinson.

    That is why although I will always be a Mets fan and follow them every other Met team that has followed has paled in comparison - and I mean its not even close. The 1999-2000 Piazza led teams were like Girl Scouts compared to the 1986 team. I can say the same for the current team. I understand that the game has changed since them but when you have Doc pitching, Straw, Keith, Carter in the middle of the order, Knights temper, the rest of the pitching staff, and just how off center this team was....it made for true entertainment along with guys that can play great baseball.

    So I just hope to one day see the 2nd best Met team ever.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mongoose
    replied
    Here's another:



    You'll probably remember this. It was memorable.

    Enjoy.
    Last edited by Mongoose; 03-13-2016, 07:46 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Paulypal
    replied
    Originally posted by Mongoose View Post
    Gooden had struck out 300 in 190 innings in the Minors at age 18. He was "The Guy" from the moment he arrived. Year 1 he had the best FIP in history. Look at his stuff. Harvey's good but not comparable. Until the Mets decided to tamper with Gooden's mechanics he was the best pitcher in history.

    As far as the Braves starters, the moment the umps stopped gifting Maddux and Glavine strikes they turned into pumpkins. Glavine made the most of a mediocre skill set but watch film and see how inferior his ability is to most other HOF pitchers. Smoltz is not a "well deserved Hall of Famer". He wasn't even as good as David Cone who was one and done in the HOF vote. Those 3 were good but Glavine was a borderline compiler and Smoltz should probably be outside looking in. The hype is false and disgusting.
    I mostly agree with you here.I have always said that Maddux and Glavine threw to different strike zones than 95% of other pitchers. Probably higher than that. If not for the 30" plate that they threw to I seriously doubt Glavine has the chance to compile anything. I remember Eddie Perez setting up on the white line of the batters box and getting strikes called. It was absurd. Where I disagree on some level is Smoltz. He isn't a lock HOF, but because of the career change - twice - I can see it.

    Harvey isn't in the same vicinity as Gooden was, but unless you have seen Gooden and lived through it it is very hard to explain to someone that hasn't. Gooden just owned NY because he was a great pitcher. I don't remember ever seeing Gooden in the news for any other reason than what he did on the mound ...until the 1986 WS parade.

    The other side of the coin here is that Gooden turned out be as self destructive as can be. There was a TV special on Dwight Gooden where Doc explains his addiction and how it controlled him etc. He also tells the tale of where he was the night before the parade and how it led to that's where he was during the parade. Just horrible stuff.


    There is one thing I can guarantee..... We have seen Shea Knight wax poetic about several Mets ...Reyes -- Piazza -- Harvey. All rightfully so. Very good players and Piazza was a flat out great hitter. -- IF Shea Knight was around to see Gooden pitch he would still be adding to "The Dwight Gooden Thread" on a daily basis ......even in 2016.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mongoose
    replied
    Originally posted by Shea Knight View Post
    I DO agree Harvey probably won't match Doc Gooden's One Man Show status...NOW. Gooden didn't miss significant time, let alone a whole season, in those 5 amazing years from '84 to '88 for which he's most remembered, so he had time to build from his '84 season and keep growing his persona on the field as "the guy." Harvey had his (LESSER) version of 1984 via 2013, got hurt, came back, and now he's not so much Elvis as one of the Beatles, if you will. (That I infinitely prefer the music of the latter to the former is insignificant--YouTube Elvis' cover of "Hey Jude," that's one of the worst covers of one talent to another I've ever heard--but still.) With respect to Ron Darling and the other members of that 80s Mets staff, Gooden's the one everyone remembers most by far, and Harvey can now never have that on talent alone...which, to be clear, is fine. Maddux/Glavine/Smoltz weren't as fancy or full of flair as either Gooden or this Mets' staff, but they're still ALL well-deserved Hall of Famers and formed one of the best staffs of all-time...as Mets fans know only too well.

    Still, in terms of personal presence, it's not Harvey's fault that he wasn't able to become a Gooden--unless anyone really thinks he'd have had a horrible 2014, without the UCL tear and anywhere near his 2013 or 2015 performance, Harvey might well have been "the guy" even amidst the others. Or not. We'll never know.
    Gooden had struck out 300 in 190 innings in the Minors at age 18. He was "The Guy" from the moment he arrived. Year 1 he had the best FIP in history. Look at his stuff. Harvey's good but not comparable. Until the Mets decided to tamper with Gooden's mechanics he was the best pitcher in history.

    As far as the Braves starters, the moment the umps stopped gifting Maddux and Glavine strikes they turned into pumpkins. Glavine made the most of a mediocre skill set but watch film and see how inferior his ability is to most other HOF pitchers. Smoltz is not a "well deserved Hall of Famer". He wasn't even as good as David Cone who was one and done in the HOF vote. Those 3 were good but Glavine was a borderline compiler and Smoltz should probably be outside looking in. The hype is false and disgusting.

    Leave a comment:


  • LAS1914
    replied
    Every day Jane Jarvis played Meet the Mets

    Leave a comment:


  • Mongoose
    replied
    Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
    Rising star...not yet risen. 100% agree.

    Las years WS has nothing to do with my opinion. IF he shuts the Royals down in the 9th...I still post what I post. One game...two games...an inning don't make or break a player to me. Too many things can happen to very good players on one play that defines them. Idiots define players by one play. For instance....Bill Buckner is known for his error in game 6 in 1986. Well only idiots don't realize what an excellent player Buckner was. On the flip side idiots put Bill Mazeroski in the HOF....he is in there for one swing of his bat. Again idiots are in a position to make too many decisions.

    Now I will switch the word idiots for the word fans (can also be easily swapped for sports writers/media)...too bad that too many time these words are both usable in the same situation. "Fans" have taken Harveys potential and multiplied it by how many Batman masks they own and have anointed him well before he deserved it.

    Harvey may become a star on the field and hope he does for several reasons. I have a feeling though with Harvey the better he pitches the more we will see him on Page 6.
    That's an image thing. Babe Ruth would've been good Page 6 material but balanced it out with many visits to orphanages, random kindnesses etc. that weren't forced. Harvey, on the other hand, doesn't seem to balance the nightlife out with much else other than pitching. We seldom know the whole story anyway.

    Here's Matty Alou crashing into a wall during the 1962 World Series.


    Note the attire of the fans. MLB merchandise, much less cosplay, are recent phenomena. I don't mind the jerseys, etc. but they've gone hand in hand with a commercial assault that's diminished the live baseball experience.

    Shea Stadium itself before the 1980s resurgence was a favorite memory. Check out this video and see if it doesn't take you back - more so than game footage:



    Not many uniforms, little cosplay in the stands. It's so mellow. I miss this time and place.
    Last edited by Mongoose; 03-12-2016, 11:14 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Paulypal
    replied
    Originally posted by Shea Knight View Post
    I conflated the term already, but talking about it here, I'd draw a distinction between "celebrity" and "star"...you really don't need talent to become the former, but you definitely need it to become and sustain yourself as the latter. There are plenty of no-talent reality TV "celebrities," but even though they're young, no one would doubt Eddie Redmayne and Jennifer Lawrence are stars, both Oscar-winners with multiple nominees now. (Granted, I'm a bit undercut by the fact I've never seen a Lawrence film, but apparently America has, lol.) And then, as good as they are, they have a ton of work to do to measure up to the likes of a Vivien Leigh or Elizabeth Taylor or Marlon Brando, and so on...Meryl Streep and her tons of nominations, lol.

    I'd say Harvey's more than a celebrity, that he's earned the "rising star" status but not that of "THE star" in terms of merit. 65 starts and 4 playoff games in, he's definitely not a fluke or just lucky. He finished 4th in the Cy Young voting (which I guess is our Best Actor/Actress Oscar stand-in) and might've finished better if he hadn't gotten injured...hard to say he'd have won, it's hard to ever take an NL pitcher today over Kershaw for the Cy Young, but that's still Top 5, that'd be enough for a "nomination" in this analogy. It's better than deGrom has finished there (7th.) As a side note, it'll be interesting if the Big Three all have the kind of big years we hope them to have if they'll split the vote between one another; Greinke did win last year, but Kershaw finished 3rd and probably took some 1st place votes there.

    In terms of being "the next one," if Harvey leaves after the 8th or the Mets win that game, his case would've been strengthened, he'd have done what "THE guy" is supposed to do--win when it's a must-win and do so in commanding, dramatic fashion. Sandy Koufax in 1965 going the distance in Game 7 to win 2-0 after missing the start of the series for Yom Kippur--THAT'S showing you're "THE star," that's being the forever A-listed Marlon Brando of baseball, as it were. Harvey did that for 8, and didn't for two batters. For me, he lost most of that particular chance to prove himself "THE star" of the staff. I don't think less of him for the almost-but-not-quite status there, but it does mean I'd agree he's not that...YET. I think he's closer than you (I'm tempted to say he's a couple batters closer--Familia saves Game 1 and 5 and he's 4-0 in the playoffs with with a WS masterpiece in a must-win game to his name, but that's baseball, the line's that thin between "masterpiece" and simply "almost") and because everyone says the 2nd year after TJS is usually better I'm inclined to think he's about ready to GET there, but he's not there...YET.
    Rising star...not yet risen. 100% agree.

    Las years WS has nothing to do with my opinion. IF he shuts the Royals down in the 9th...I still post what I post. One game...two games...an inning don't make or break a player to me. Too many things can happen to very good players on one play that defines them. Idiots define players by one play. For instance....Bill Buckner is known for his error in game 6 in 1986. Well only idiots don't realize what an excellent player Buckner was. On the flip side idiots put Bill Mazeroski in the HOF....he is in there for one swing of his bat. Again idiots are in a position to make too many decisions.

    Now I will switch the word idiots for the word fans (can also be easily swapped for sports writers/media)...too bad that too many time these words are both usable in the same situation. "Fans" have taken Harveys potential and multiplied it by how many Batman masks they own and have anointed him well before he deserved it.

    Harvey may become a star on the field and hope he does for several reasons. I have a feeling though with Harvey the better he pitches the more we will see him on Page 6.

    Leave a comment:


  • Shea Knight
    replied
    Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
    I think everyone sees the potential of Matt Harvey, but its potential, and this potential has not been seen yet on consistent basis. Until then its just potential. For instance I don't think Harvey or deGrom are going to get near the upside of Noah - yet I don't think Noah should have nor does he deserve to be put on the pedestal that Harvey was put on at the same point Noah is at.

    Right now Harvey has 65 MLB starts - has missed a season because of surgery, and has a record of 25-18. Yes he has a great ERA of 2.53, and gets a K an inning, but in true desperation the Met fans have anointed Harvey as "the next one". Maybe he is, but he probably isn't.

    This is just me personally, and I know its the way things are now, but I don't like seeing anyone crowned king well before they have done anything, and Harvey has been that here for a while now.

    Maybe because you don't live in NY and see Harvey on page 6 of papers (I don't either as I don't read the rags), but I hear about it. My point is he became a celebrity well before celebrity was earned. I don't blame him 100% he was given the crown at a young age and he took it. He took well before he earned it or ready for it but he took it.

    Not a doubt in my mind he should have been traded because there is this smoke around him called potential and people will pay for it. They will pay a lot for it. He will eventually be traded without a doubt. I hope he gets 25 wins this year...the Mets win the WS, and then they can get a kings ransom for him.
    I conflated the term already, but talking about it here, I'd draw a distinction between "celebrity" and "star"...you really don't need talent to become the former, but you definitely need it to become and sustain yourself as the latter. There are plenty of no-talent reality TV "celebrities," but even though they're young, no one would doubt Eddie Redmayne and Jennifer Lawrence are stars, both Oscar-winners with multiple nominees now. (Granted, I'm a bit undercut by the fact I've never seen a Lawrence film, but apparently America has, lol.) And then, as good as they are, they have a ton of work to do to measure up to the likes of a Vivien Leigh or Elizabeth Taylor or Marlon Brando, and so on...Meryl Streep and her tons of nominations, lol.

    I'd say Harvey's more than a celebrity, that he's earned the "rising star" status but not that of "THE star" in terms of merit. 65 starts and 4 playoff games in, he's definitely not a fluke or just lucky. He finished 4th in the Cy Young voting (which I guess is our Best Actor/Actress Oscar stand-in) and might've finished better if he hadn't gotten injured...hard to say he'd have won, it's hard to ever take an NL pitcher today over Kershaw for the Cy Young, but that's still Top 5, that'd be enough for a "nomination" in this analogy. It's better than deGrom has finished there (7th.) As a side note, it'll be interesting if the Big Three all have the kind of big years we hope them to have if they'll split the vote between one another; Greinke did win last year, but Kershaw finished 3rd and probably took some 1st place votes there.

    In terms of being "the next one," if Harvey leaves after the 8th or the Mets win that game, his case would've been strengthened, he'd have done what "THE guy" is supposed to do--win when it's a must-win and do so in commanding, dramatic fashion. Sandy Koufax in 1965 going the distance in Game 7 to win 2-0 after missing the start of the series for Yom Kippur--THAT'S showing you're "THE star," that's being the forever A-listed Marlon Brando of baseball, as it were. Harvey did that for 8, and didn't for two batters. For me, he lost most of that particular chance to prove himself "THE star" of the staff. I don't think less of him for the almost-but-not-quite status there, but it does mean I'd agree he's not that...YET. I think he's closer than you (I'm tempted to say he's a couple batters closer--Familia saves Game 1 and 5 and he's 4-0 in the playoffs with with a WS masterpiece in a must-win game to his name, but that's baseball, the line's that thin between "masterpiece" and simply "almost") and because everyone says the 2nd year after TJS is usually better I'm inclined to think he's about ready to GET there, but he's not there...YET.

    Leave a comment:

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