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With Torre Leaving The Dodgers, Should The Mets Try And Get Him?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Shea Knight View Post
    I too was a bit shocked Torre wrote that book, but this is the era for that kind of thing, the era of steroids and cheating and tell-alls and whatnot...and anyway, it was kind of nice to see the Yankees with their cage rattled for a change.

    I think managers in MLB essentially break down the same way a QB fucntions in football--a great manager/QB and you have a huge piece of the puzzle that can turn some wins into losses but with no help you're not going anywhere (just ask Elway prior to the mid 1990s), a terrible manager/QB and it doesn't matter how good the rest of your team is, you will NOT win a Super Bowl (just ask the Bears 2006 and Rex Grossman...wow, he almost makes Alex Smith of my 49ers look good, Grossman was BAD, in my opinion the worst QB to ever appear in a Super Bowl, or certainly Top 3) and if you fall in the middle with a manager or a QB then, really, it's up to...the team (big shocker.)

    So right now we have a Rex Grossman at QB, so to speak, with Jerry.

    Torre as Elway (and that's a big stretch of the metaphor, not saying they're alike in style or anything, but just hang with me) and the Mets will win some more games that an ordinary manager would have lost and generally will avoid the terrible turns a bad QB/manager leads the team into, and so an Elway-led team is at least in the mix, at least gives SOME hope and doesn't make 162 games seem too long, Elway with no great help isn't a threat to win the SB or even go far in the playoffs, and Torre with no other additions and the Mets aren't even crying for the division and at most at the fringe of a WC race...but at least it'd be SOMETING rather than sub-.500 and more interesting.

    And then of course great manager and great team=a Super Bowl win...

    Unless you're the Buffalo Bills or Minnesota Vikings, in which the world still wants to know how you had the worst 0-4 in the history of sports...
    First of all I can argue with you or anyone else about steroids and cheating all day. Its funny how the offensive number explosion is the "steroid era", but as many pitchers were taking them as hitters. I guess steroids enhance hitting only. I guess the amphetamine freaks of the 1960's like Mays, Mantle, Aaron etc get a free pass because....well they are Mays, Mantle and Aaron. Amphets are also performance enhancing...they give you beyond "natural" energy and focus..........and oh yeah they were/are illegal. That is an argument for another thread.

    The huge problem with your QB/Manager analogy is that QB are actually playing the game where as the manager is not. To me its very simple....You can take the greatest manager in the history of baseball, the guy can have a PHD in pine tar, but if he doesnt have good players you wouldnt consider him even a good manager. Jerry cost this team maybe 5 wins this year.....maybe. On the flip side of that did Jerry make any good moves that won them any games? I am sure he did, even a blind squirrel can find a nut.

    People/fans give way way way too much credit to individuals for winning in a team sport. I happen to think Derek Jeter is an excellent player, but sometimes you hear "Derek Jeter is a champion ball player". Well yes you cant agrue that he has 5 rings, but this isnt tennis. My answer is that Jeter played on champion TEAMS. If Jeter played on the Royals how many rings would he have? My guess is somewhere between -1 and +1...in other words zero. Derek Jeter would still be an excellent player but not with all the fanfare that comes with being a Yankee and winning the 5 rings they did. You wouldnt hear about all these intangables.

    My point is Jerry does not make this team a contender, but no manager could have. Its like blaming a jockey for not winning a race when he is on a donkey running against thoroughbreds. The Met roster is the donkey by the way.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
      Funny thing about Jerry is that he was upset about Torre, but it was pretty strongly rumored that Jerry undercut Willie.
      That was conjecture by the media. Torre deserves criticism for what he did. I'm sick of him being revered as a saint in this city.
      "I'm happy for [Edwin Encarnacion] because this guy bleeds internally, big-time" -Dusty Baker

      "If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it on the scoreboard?" -Jeff Francoeur

      "At the end of the day, the sun comes up and I still have a job" -Joba Chamberlain

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
        Funny thing about Jerry is that he was upset about Torre, but it was pretty strongly rumored that Jerry undercut Willie.
        Umm....

        Do you understand that a rumor inherently has no factual basis? If you think there is a basis for the rumor, please educate me how Manuel undercut Willie. Thanks in advance.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Dugmet View Post
          Umm....

          Do you understand that a rumor inherently has no factual basis? If you think there is a basis for the rumor, please educate me how Manuel undercut Willie. Thanks in advance.
          Maybe you didnt read what I typed. I used the word "rumored". Did Jerry undercut Willie? I dont have a clue. Nor do I care, but it was put out there and I would find it interesting that if he did how it would come back to bite him in the ass as well. I hope this meets with your approval.

          ...........and your welcome.

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          • #35
            Where's John Stearns these days? He was brought up as candidate in the past. "The monster is out of the cage!" -- still one of my favorite little Met moments.

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            • #36
              Hey Joe, enjoy your retirement !!!

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              • #37
                eeeeeewwww I hate Joe Torre now and I hated him when he was with the Mets. Why the hell would anyone want that Yankee managing the Mets?????? eeeeeewwwwwwwww

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