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  • rjsallstars
    replied
    Congrats to Sandy "Maverick" Alderson for winning the executive of the year. He took a lot of crap for sticking to "the plan" but because of that plan we got to see our team in the WS last year. He has also positioned the team to be very competitive for the foreseeable future. I think those who adamantly professed his ignorance being reduced to explaining his success as "being lucky" confirms most of the previous 1395 posts were a waste of time. Maybe they should change his nickname to Last Laugh.

    Leave a comment:


  • mandrake
    replied
    Originally posted by LI METS FAN View Post
    Sandy to miss winter meetings due to medical reasons.
    Unexplained feinting could be a very serious issue, for anyone. I really hope he is OK. Somethings are bigger than sports.

    Leave a comment:


  • LI METS FAN
    replied
    Sandy to miss winter meetings due to medical reasons.

    Leave a comment:


  • LI METS FAN
    replied
    Talent does not equal or translate into success necessarily.

    See Minaya's pick of Mejia as an unfortunate example. Or his picking of pitchers who miss a year or more due to TJS. In a way Minaya is partially responsible for kicking arbitration down the road when his picks can't stay on the field?

    Leave a comment:


  • Paulypal
    replied
    Another HUGE Falsehood is how Omar held on to the young talent. When people say things you take them at face value but then you look at the actual information you realize this is just another angle to disparage Alderson.

    Matt Harvey was signed August 10th 2010 -- Jacob deGrom was signed June 12th 2010.

    Omar was FIRED on October 5th 2010. He didnt have a chance to do a damn thing with them because he was too busy stumbling over words with the media, and this is the guy we have to high-five for retaining the young talent he drafted? What a joke.
    Last edited by Paulypal; 10-23-2015, 07:00 AM.

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  • Paulypal
    replied
    Originally posted by Mongoose View Post
    All this is irrelevant to the fact the current Mets are mostly Omar's acquisitions.

    Besides that what's striking here is how little talent Omar gave up to "win now". Alderson's job was to "win later" and he's managed to squander much more young talent.
    Oh now the bad moves are irrelevant? How convenient...meanwhile we heard about Justin Turner 50 times since he was released for being a less than mediocre player with a lot of lazy in him. Isnt that move irrelevant especially now that the Mets will be in the WS?

    Omar goal was to win now & Aldersons was to win later?

    Well isnt that ironic - because Alderson did win later, but he still won well before the "win now" guy because the win now guy never took the team to the WS.

    Hopefully Omar gets another GM job with the Phillies and then he can sign Julio Franco, Ollie, Luis, Moises, Schoenweiss...ya know he can put the old gang back together. He can really be more helpful to Mets than he was as the Met GM.
    Last edited by Paulypal; 10-23-2015, 06:59 AM.

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  • Mongoose
    replied
    Originally posted by LI METS FAN View Post
    Well if this is zero effort by Alderson---I'll take it.

    If he really tried I bet the Mets could make the NBA or NFL playoffs
    As noted the organization did finally make a reluctant effort - two months ago.

    It's unfortunate they waited until then. I don't know about the NBA or NFL playoffs but the Mets should have been a wild card contender last year. Unfortunately a big part of "The Plan" was paying talent as little as possible as long as possible. This should be an interesting off-season.

    For some reason everyone seems eager to forget most of the "rebuild's" talent was already in place when Alderson was hired. Omar Minaya and his team deserve credit for this. Alderson's major role in its development was to kick its arbitral raises as far down the road as he could.

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  • LI METS FAN
    replied
    Well if this is zero effort by Alderson---I'll take it.

    If he really tried I bet the Mets could make the NBA or NFL playoffs

    Leave a comment:


  • Mongoose
    replied
    Originally posted by LI METS FAN View Post
    Minaya, after being fired, was hired by the Mets after the 2004 season. Citi opened in 2009. He had a win now mandate? Explains why he is an ex GM.

    Alderson mistakenly overachieved? Darn. We're stuck watching WS games because of him? A year early? Darn.
    Omar was hired ahead of the 2005 season. SNY launched ahead of the 2006 season. If Fred was going to perpetually sell out the planned shrunken stadium by 2009 a perennial contender was certainly needed by 2008.

    Perhaps you noted the liberal signing of free agents and premature promotion of prospects like Mike Pelfrey and Carlos Gomez. Many of Omar's draftees were college players.

    Yes, Omar had a win now mandate.

    Alderson's tenure has been different. Zero effort make to win at the ML level year after year. ML ready talent kept in the Minors to delay arbitration.

    To say all the draftees have been HS players is inaccurate: Alderson's top draftees his first 5 seasons seemed to target 2016: Nimmo, Cecchini, Smith, Conforto, forteiting a pick...

    No significant effort was made to fill roster holes this past off-season. Syndergaard, Matz and Conforto were only brought up due to injury combined with vocal anger from the fan base. Further improvements were made rather reluctantly by management:

    http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2015/06/...rnan-alderson/
    NEW YORK (WFAN) — 2014 is the year.

    Nope.

    2015 is the year! Well, maybe. More than likely not.

    2016 is the year!

    Mets fans have been hearing “this is the year,” well, for years now. And on Wednesday morning, just hours after New York got no-hit by a rookie, Kevin Kernan of the New York Post told WFAN co-hosts Boomer Esiason and Craig Carton that Mets front-office executives are looking at next season as the one where everything will come together.

    That’s not to discount the potential of this season, Kernan pointed out. The Mets, amazingly, are still in sole possession of first place, and they are committed to winning now.

    But the feeling among club officials is that the team will have a better chance to return to the playoffs — and win in October — in 2016.

    “I have sources,” Kernan told Boomer & Carton. “I’ve talked to people in the Mets’ front office, and they’ve always pointed towards 2016 … One of the reasons why is they feel that the pitching staff will be totally in place then. You’ll have a Steven Matz up, he’ll be up. You’ll have a (Noah) Syndergaard, kind of with some experience.

    “I think that’s been their gut feeling, that 2016 is the year. They’re not gonna throw away 2015, hopefully, but 2016’s been kind of like their target all along. 2016’s been, kind of like, the year they felt they could really … their coming-out party.”
    Mets COO Jeff Wilpon and general manager Sandy Alderson

    Matz, a 24-year-old lefty from Long Island, is expected to be called up by the All-Star break. He’ll join a formidable rotation that includes ace Matt Harvey, reigning National League Rookie of the Year Jacob deGrom, ageless veteran Bartolo Colon and Syndergaard.

    Colon will be a free agent after the season, and it’s unlikely he’ll return. But New York will welcome back 25-year-old Zack Wheeler, who is out for the season after undergoing Tommy John surgery.

    The first-place Mets (31-28) enter Wednesday’s action a half-game ahead of the Nationals in the National League East.


    These reports were commonplace the first half of the year. As the Nationals collapsed, though, the front office was forced into finally moving a couple months before planned to prevent the massive fan rebellion forming after the Gomez trade fell through.

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  • LI METS FAN
    replied
    Originally posted by Mongoose View Post
    Wrong. When Omar was hired the Wilpons were launching a RSN within 1 year and a new stadium after 3. He had a win now mandate and managed to turn the ballclub around fast.

    Alderson's mandate when hired after 2010 was to kick the can down the road until a year before the scheduled mall was set to open in 2017.



    All this is irrelevant to the fact the current Mets are mostly Omar's acquisitions.

    Besides that what's striking here is how little talent Omar gave up to "win now". Alderson's job was to "win later" and he's managed to squander much more young talent.
    Minaya, after being fired, was hired by the Mets after the 2004 season. Citi opened in 2009. He had a win now mandate? Explains why he is an ex GM.

    Alderson mistakenly overachieved? Darn. We're stuck watching WS games because of him? A year early? Darn.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mongoose
    replied
    Originally posted by LI METS FAN View Post
    Omar's job was to hoard talent
    Cespedes was a trade.
    Wrong. When Omar was hired the Wilpons were launching a RSN within 1 year and a new stadium after 3. He had a win now mandate and managed to turn the ballclub around fast.

    Alderson's mandate when hired after 2010 was to kick the can down the road until a year before the scheduled mall was set to open in 2017.

    Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
    Yes the heavy lifting by drafting two players he admitted he never saw throw a baseball - Harvey & deGrom sounds excruciating.

    Cespedes was not his first choice, but the deal never happened for whatever reason that NOBODY knows so it worked out and then the Cespedes move was made.

    There are many first choice trades that werent made for instance

    The Cardinals wanted to trade Albert Pujols to the Expos in 2000 - the Expos insisted on Fernando Tatis and Tatis was traded. What an ass the GM of the Cardinals must be for almost trading Albert Pujols instead of Tatis.

    Omar the lifter of heavy things:
    1) Traded Heath Bell
    2) signed a 40 year old injured Moises Alou
    3) Let their best middle reliever walk away - Chad Bradford
    4) Resigns a steroid user Mota to 2 year $5m contract in which after the roids were out of his system sported a 5.76 ERA
    5) Let Darren Oliver leave to the Angels for $1.75M who had an ERA under 3.00 5 out of the next 6 years
    6) Replaced Bradford with Schoenweiss who promptly sported a 5.03 ERA
    7) Trade Nady for Ollie
    8) Then LMAO - resigns Ollie for 3 years $36M
    9) Signs Luis Castillo for $24 million
    10) Resigns a 41 year old Moises Alou - 2 years totaled 102 games
    11) signs an ancient Julio Franco
    12) Two words............... Jason Bay.
    13) Signed JJ Putz without a physical only to find out he was injured. - You cant make this $%^% up.

    He must be exhausted from spending all the cash - I see what you mean now by heavy lifting. Wilpon's wallet was heavy and he lifted it quite often. He picks thing up and puts them down. I use to think the Braves were the Mets biggest rivals....when the whole time THE ENEMY WAS WITHIN.

    All GM's make mistakes without a doubt, but Omar's get sugarcoated to make a point on this issue and the guy WAS A FLAT OUT IDIOT AS A GM. He had a $140MM payroll with all kinds of stolen money and couldnt get us as far as Alderson/Collins has taken them after taking $60MM off of payroll at one point.
    All this is irrelevant to the fact the current Mets are mostly Omar's acquisitions.

    Besides that what's striking here is how little talent Omar gave up to "win now". Alderson's job was to "win later" and he's managed to squander much more young talent.

    Leave a comment:


  • LI METS FAN
    replied
    Originally posted by Mongoose View Post
    Disagree. Alderson's job was to hoard talent and kick the can down the road. Very few trades, very few free agent signings. Mostly stasis. Omar had already done the heavy lifting by finding the talent.



    Criticized the Turner non-tender when done. Didn't criticize Thole's inclusion in Dickey deal. I don't bash most moves in hindsight. The ones I focus on are ones I hated at the time.

    For example I never slammed the Chris Young signing that much because though I didn't expect him to be good, it was unreasonable to expect him to be as bad as he was. Likewise I don't overcredit Sandy for lucking out with the Cespedes signing. Of course Cespedes wasn't his first choice anyway.
    Omar's job was to hoard talent
    Cespedes was a trade.

    Leave a comment:


  • Paulypal
    replied
    Originally posted by Mongoose View Post
    Disagree. Alderson's job was to hoard talent and kick the can down the road. Very few trades, very few free agent signings. Mostly stasis. Omar had already done the heavy lifting by finding the talent.



    Criticized the Turner non-tender when done. Didn't criticize Thole's inclusion in Dickey deal. I don't bash most moves in hindsight. The ones I focus on are ones I hated at the time.

    For example I never slammed the Chris Young signing that much because though I didn't expect him to be good, it was unreasonable to expect him to be as bad as he was. Likewise I don't overcredit Sandy for lucking out with the Cespedes signing. Of course Cespedes wasn't his first choice anyway.
    Yes the heavy lifting by drafting two players he admitted he never saw throw a baseball - Harvey & deGrom sounds excruciating.

    Cespedes was not his first choice, but the deal never happened for whatever reason that NOBODY knows so it worked out and then the Cespedes move was made.

    There are many first choice trades that werent made for instance

    The Cardinals wanted to trade Albert Pujols to the Expos in 2000 - the Expos insisted on Fernando Tatis and Tatis was traded. What an ass the GM of the Cardinals must be for almost trading Albert Pujols instead of Tatis.

    Omar the lifter of heavy things:
    1) Traded Heath Bell
    2) signed a 40 year old injured Moises Alou
    3) Let their best middle reliever walk away - Chad Bradford
    4) Resigns a steroid user Mota to 2 year $5m contract in which after the roids were out of his system sported a 5.76 ERA
    5) Let Darren Oliver leave to the Angels for $1.75M who had an ERA under 3.00 5 out of the next 6 years
    6) Replaced Bradford with Schoenweiss who promptly sported a 5.03 ERA
    7) Trade Nady for Ollie
    8) Then LMAO - resigns Ollie for 3 years $36M
    9) Signs Luis Castillo for $24 million
    10) Resigns a 41 year old Moises Alou - 2 years totaled 102 games
    11) signs an ancient Julio Franco
    12) Two words............... Jason Bay.
    13) Signed JJ Putz without a physical only to find out he was injured. - You cant make this $%^% up.
    14) Last but not least - non Met related - Cliff Lee/Brandon Philips/Grady Sizemore for Bartolo Colon & Tim Drew. I can imagine Shapiro on the other end of the phone laughing his ass off while this one was being consumated.

    He must be exhausted from spending all the cash - I see what you mean now by heavy lifting. Wilpon's wallet was heavy and he lifted it quite often. He picks things up and puts them down. I use to think the Braves were the Mets biggest rivals....when the whole time THE ENEMY WAS WITHIN.

    All GM's make mistakes without a doubt, but Omar's get sugarcoated to make a point on this issue and the guy WAS A FLAT OUT IDIOT AS A GM. He had a $140MM payroll with all kinds of stolen money and couldnt get us as far as Alderson/Collins has taken them after taking $60MM off of payroll at one point.
    Last edited by Paulypal; 10-22-2015, 01:41 PM.

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  • Mongoose
    replied
    Originally posted by LI METS FAN View Post
    I disagree with the assignment being easy.
    Of all MLB expansion teams since 1960 there is only one team with more than 2 pennants. The Mets. Soon to be joined by either the Jays or KC.

    Easy assignment is a term for other people's work product. Our own work product is always challenging and difficult.
    Disagree. Alderson's job was to hoard talent and kick the can down the road. Very few trades, very few free agent signings. Mostly stasis. Omar had already done the heavy lifting by finding the talent.

    Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
    Justin Turner was not a good player with the Mets/Orioles and showed nothing of changing that. He had an OPS of .660 after his age 28 season with the Mets. At the time he left the Mets his WAR was .7 (yes there is a decimal in front of the 7) in his career, and this is the big fish that got away.

    The Mets releasing him obviously made him put foot to ass and turn himself into a good player - which is good for him, but the Mets getting rid of him was a non move.

    You keep using this as an example and driving it home because this highlights your opinion of Alderson as a mistake when in actuality at the time it wasnt.

    Where is the same outrage for trading Josh Thole who at the time of his trade had a 1.4 WAR with the Mets. That must not count because Thole despite being a less talented player than Turner did not need boot to ass to turn him into something. He just wasnt very good.

    Anything else Alderson did - although he did it in a douche manor - he was instructed to do by his boss or MLB baseball. He had a suck job that wasnt going to win him any fans, but he did what he did.

    The fact that the bias is so thick is just amazing.
    Criticized the Turner non-tender when done. Didn't criticize Thole's inclusion in Dickey deal. I don't bash most moves in hindsight. The ones I focus on are ones I hated at the time.

    For example I never slammed the Chris Young signing that much because though I didn't expect him to be good, it was unreasonable to expect him to be as bad as he was. Likewise I don't overcredit Sandy for lucking out with the Cespedes signing. Of course Cespedes wasn't his first choice anyway.

    Leave a comment:


  • rjsallstars
    replied
    Originally posted by Cowtipper View Post
    If it weren't for Sandy Alderson, the Mets would have been a 130-win team! ALDERSON SUXXX
    And if they could get rid of that Boob Collins maybe 135.

    Leave a comment:

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