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  • #46
    Casey Stengel is a bad example. When he didn't manage the Yankees, his record was 756-1146. Pretty much proves the opposite of the point you're trying to make; managers are only as good as the names on the lineup card.
    "I'm happy for [Edwin Encarnacion] because this guy bleeds internally, big-time" -Dusty Baker

    "If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it on the scoreboard?" -Jeff Francoeur

    "At the end of the day, the sun comes up and I still have a job" -Joba Chamberlain

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Strawman View Post
      Yah, yah you're right - manager don't manage at all - have no effect whatsoever on a season. I withdraw my complaint. Happy to have this angry, older Collins fellow pose in uniform for two years.




      Not only that, why are the Wilpons paying Sandy Alderson and his crew to interview angry old men to pose in a uniform for the next two years? If the manager isn't that important and it's all about the players, then why spend so much wasted time with a bunch of stiffs?

      I don't get it.

      Comment


      • #48
        Personally, I could not care if the media dislikes a manager; being media friendly does not put W's on the board. And the Club Mets attitude needs to change also. The Mets may need strict no nonsense guys during a time when they need to completely overhaul the franchise. The team can't have players running the franchise. Hopefully the days of a pitcher refusing to go to Triple A to work on his game, or a relief pitcher beating up his girl friend's father in front of other players wives and kids, are over.

        Fans may like former players (especially former Mets) to come back and manage, but Wally needs to manage above rookie half season ball. Let him do some stints in double A and then triple A; then see what his track record is.

        Even the media can't predict what type of a manager someone will turn out to be. Back around 1930, Babe Ruth wanted the Yankees to make him player-manager but the NYY brass knew better. They picked a guy named Joe McCarthy instead, a guy known as a 'busher' because he only played in the minors. All McCarthy did was lead the team to 7 WS and 8 pennants.

        I am not suggesting Collins will end up doing this, but I hope he does !

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Strawman View Post
          Omar would have pressed the Bobby V. button and quickly.
          Omar would have pressed the Manny Acta button and quickly.
          "We have a plan; and I like our plan." ...Omar
          "I belive in our minor leagers; and I like our minor leagers." ...Omar

          Comment


          • #50
            For what it's worth Collins has a winning record as a major league manager.

            Not that it's worth much.

            But wasting breath whining about the manager is pointless. Especially when your preferred option (Backman) is a complete guess as a major leaguer. There's no idea how his act plays at a higher level.

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            • #51
              I wouldn't have been thrilled if they picked Backman which IMO would have been pandering to the fan base. Leyland, Scioscia and Schowalter are off the board as apparently was Bobby V so I don't see any stellar candidates out there. I can't get too worked up about the manager and hopefully the media lets him breathe instead of trying to create controversy (ala ambushing Randy Johnson and sticking a camera in his face as he is walking up the steps of a doctor's office).

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Shea Knight View Post
                So you believe we should treat the Jerry Manuels and Dalls Greens the same as we would the John McGraws and Casey Stengels?

                Managers DO impact the game, and if you want to tell me "McGraw had great players, anyone can win with them," remember that McGraw also MOLDED his players...

                The same way there's a world of difference between a Vince Lombardi and a Dennis Erickson--Lombardi had good players, but that's definitely somewhat due to the way he trained them, the way he fashioned a working relationship between himself and Bart Starr...

                The way good managers and their captains and star pitchers work together to coax that little extra effort out of the others that makes the difference between making the playoffs and falling just short.
                Before you post you need to start thinking about what your typing. You just compared McGraw with Green/Manual. Are you serious? First of all as Mets523 informed you Stengal was not so good without Berra, Mantle, Dimaggio, etc. So really no reason to address that.

                Now on to McGraw. Starting in 1902....thats right 1902 McGraw started with the Giants. He managed them for 31 years. 31 years. Also in 1902 teams were not set up as they are now. McGraw was also the GM, and talent evaluater. So yes he was capable of molding the players because well.........he chose all of them. Add into the fact that you can mold some players when your the manager for 31 years and have no threat of being fired. John McGraw WAS the Giants organization.

                Even with that said....how much does a manager "mold" a player? Either the player has talent or he doesnt. That hasnt changed. McGraw was obviously a good evaluater of talent. I am not sure how many players he actually molded. Neither are you.

                This does lead me to a question about McGraw. When he was the player manager of both the Orioles and the Giants.....did he mold himself? Interesting food for thought.

                If read anything above - I said baseball managers have the least amount of impact of all the managers/coaches of different sports. So you Lombardi analogy is moot. Although Lombardi had a team full of HOF'ers. Something many of the Met managers never had to worry about. Their teams have stunk for the most part.

                Your looking for too much from a manager. You think the manager is a manager/coach/tutor/father/priest to the players. He isnt.

                In 1973 Secratariat could have won with Fred Flinstone on his back. Ron Turcotte didnt mold Secratariat. Hey if you can bring in Football and 1902 baseball - I can talk about a horse.

                So whats next from you? How Caesar molded Spartacus into a great gladiator?
                Last edited by Paulypal; 11-22-2010, 07:36 AM.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
                  In 1973 Secratariat could have won with Fred Flinstone on his back. Ron Turcotte didnt mold Secratariat. Hey if you can bring in Football and 1902 baseball - I can talk about a horse.
                  I don't know about that. I think Fred Flinstone would have slowed Secratariat down.
                  "I'm happy for [Edwin Encarnacion] because this guy bleeds internally, big-time" -Dusty Baker

                  "If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it on the scoreboard?" -Jeff Francoeur

                  "At the end of the day, the sun comes up and I still have a job" -Joba Chamberlain

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by NYMets523 View Post
                    I don't know about that. I think Fred Flinstone would have slowed Secratariat down.
                    Hey I carefully selected Fred Flintstone as my example. If the man can pick up his car and run with it to get it started then he can only be an asset.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Bob Klapisch takes apart the Terry Collins hiring (it's basically more Dodgers in the pot) and hints that Alderson's tenure may not be a long one - tough stuff, but I agree:

                      http://www.northjersey.com/sports/pr...y_Collins.html
                      Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by NYMets523 View Post
                        I don't know about that. I think Fred Flinstone would have slowed Secratariat down.
                        Maybe Fred Flintstone was on Secretariat when ONION beat him at the Spa after the Belmont !

                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ik9U4JVrr_Q

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          To answer the OP. Collins is only signed for two years. He was signed to "whip the boys into shape" and to separate the men from the boys for the upper management. This is a "safe" pick for Alderson because 1) not much is expected this year, 2) he is a know quality, and 3) DePodesta fought for this hire. My expectations are very low for next year anyway. If this team begins to turn the corner, and it appears that Collins is losing the players, then we go for a young up and coming players manager like Chip Hale. Collins wasnt my first choice, but I can live with it.
                          unknown brooklyn cabbie " how are the brooks doin"
                          unknown fan "good they got three men on base"
                          unknown brooklyn cabbie "which one?"

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
                            Before you post you need to start thinking about what your typing. You just compared McGraw with Green/Manual. Are you serious? First of all as Mets523 informed you Stengal was not so good without Berra, Mantle, Dimaggio, etc. So really no reason to address that.

                            Now on to McGraw. Starting in 1902....thats right 1902 McGraw started with the Giants. He managed them for 31 years. 31 years. Also in 1902 teams were not set up as they are now. McGraw was also the GM, and talent evaluater. So yes he was capable of molding the players because well.........he chose all of them. Add into the fact that you can mold some players when your the manager for 31 years and have no threat of being fired. John McGraw WAS the Giants organization.

                            Even with that said....how much does a manager "mold" a player? Either the player has talent or he doesnt. That hasnt changed. McGraw was obviously a good evaluater of talent. I am not sure how many players he actually molded. Neither are you.

                            This does lead me to a question about McGraw. When he was the player manager of both the Orioles and the Giants.....did he mold himself? Interesting food for thought.

                            If read anything above - I said baseball managers have the least amount of impact of all the managers/coaches of different sports. So you Lombardi analogy is moot. Although Lombardi had a team full of HOF'ers. Something many of the Met managers never had to worry about. Their teams have stunk for the most part.

                            Your looking for too much from a manager. You think the manager is a manager/coach/tutor/father/priest to the players. He isnt.

                            In 1973 Secratariat could have won with Fred Flinstone on his back. Ron Turcotte didnt mold Secratariat. Hey if you can bring in Football and 1902 baseball - I can talk about a horse.

                            So whats next from you? How Caesar molded Spartacus into a great gladiator?
                            Actually you are way off base Pauly....Spartacus' gladiatorial days was before Caesar was emperor! lol
                            unknown brooklyn cabbie " how are the brooks doin"
                            unknown fan "good they got three men on base"
                            unknown brooklyn cabbie "which one?"

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by theAmazingMet View Post
                              Actually you are way off base Pauly....Spartacus' gladiatorial days was before Caesar was emperor! lol
                              Sorry Lentulus Batiatus.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Strawman View Post
                                Bob Klapisch takes apart the Terry Collins hiring (it's basically more Dodgers in the pot) and hints that Alderson's tenure may not be a long one - tough stuff, but I agree:

                                http://www.northjersey.com/sports/pr...y_Collins.html
                                Well I wouldnt say he took it apart exactly. He said it was very risky. and not what the fans wanted.

                                I say who cares about Klapisch? The fans want Backman. Why? Because he was on the 1986 team, and because he has a rep for being tough. Most Met fans bitching about Collins dont realize he is cut form the same mold as Backman..minus the trailer.

                                My question for Klapisch is...why is Backman the safer and better choice? He called Collins a journeyman. At least Collins had a journey. Backman has had nothing. Zero. Zip Nada. I really didnt get the memo that Backman became a genius some how. Is he the safer choice because its what fans want....honestly....should that matter. Most fans couldnt name you 10 guys in the American League. They know they think Angel Pagan is the greatest player ever. They know Wright and Reyes are Mets Gods. All of a sudden Backman became this baseball genius. Most fans that are dying for Backman to run the team is for only one reason.....he has 1986 lineage. Big Deal!

                                If Collins dont work out or the plan is to get him to whip the boys into shape as previously written on here, then he gets fired too, and we move on.

                                Comment

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