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The Sandy Alderson Thread

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  • Paulypal
    replied
    Originally posted by Ralf View Post
    Our biggest chip at this point is Valdespin imo. I don't see him having a future with this organization and he has some upside. Also, guys like Gorski and Vaughn as throw in's. I'd consider Kirk or Den Dekker under the right deal too. Really don't need both of them. Havens is still a no-go. He started out the season pretty bad but has turned things around of late. Its still too early to give up on him imo. He's the type of guy that it can all click with real quick, assuming he stays healthy.

    Also, I really don't understand the "trade Murphy" crowd. This is a guy who has proven himself to be a good major league hitter. Like Duda, patience with defense is the key. I know thats hard for the instant gratification crowd but its the truth. There has to be a reasonable period of time to allow both to mature in their positions before looking elsewhere. A half of a year is not reasonable. Nobody is really lighting it up in the minors either to replace him.
    Well the reason I disagree is because Valdespin hasnt proven a thing on the MLB level, Murphy has. Therefore I deem Murphy as our biggest chip especially when talking about the Padres because they do need instant offense.

    What are you going to get with Valdespin? Murphy commands more in a trade. Its not a matter of giving up on him its a matter of you have to give to get, and Valedspin is not giving.

    We cant have it both ways. We cant say we want to be patient, and groom our players, then say we want to compete now with the current roster. The current roster wont compete all season in my opinion.

    Leave a comment:


  • mandrake
    replied
    Originally posted by Ralf View Post
    Our biggest chip at this point is Valdespin imo. I don't see him having a future with this organization and he has some upside. Also, guys like Gorski and Vaughn as throw in's. I'd consider Kirk or Den Dekker under the right deal too. Really don't need both of them. Havens is still a no-go. He started out the season pretty bad but has turned things around of late. Its still too early to give up on him imo. He's the type of guy that it can all click with real quick, assuming he stays healthy.

    Also, I really don't understand the "trade Murphy" crowd. This is a guy who has proven himself to be a good major league hitter. Like Duda, patience with defense is the key. I know thats hard for the instant gratification crowd but its the truth. There has to be a reasonable period of time to allow both to mature in their positions before looking elsewhere. A half of a year is not reasonable. Nobody is really lighting it up in the minors either to replace him.
    I don't know if my coffee has not kicked in yet, but I agree with Ralf 100% . Something I never thought I'd post !

    Leave a comment:


  • Ralf
    replied
    Our biggest chip at this point is Valdespin imo. I don't see him having a future with this organization and he has some upside. Also, guys like Gorski and Vaughn as throw in's. I'd consider Kirk or Den Dekker under the right deal too. Really don't need both of them. Havens is still a no-go. He started out the season pretty bad but has turned things around of late. Its still too early to give up on him imo. He's the type of guy that it can all click with real quick, assuming he stays healthy.

    Also, I really don't understand the "trade Murphy" crowd. This is a guy who has proven himself to be a good major league hitter. Like Duda, patience with defense is the key. I know thats hard for the instant gratification crowd but its the truth. There has to be a reasonable period of time to allow both to mature in their positions before looking elsewhere. A half of a year is not reasonable. Nobody is really lighting it up in the minors either to replace him.
    Last edited by Ralf; 07-02-2012, 04:23 AM.

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  • Ralf
    replied
    I actually agree with Strawman somewhat here. This is a real moment for Sandy. He has to atone for this failed bullpen and give this team a chance of making a postseason push. As constructed, it would be a demoralizing message to the team and fan base if he stood pat. He talks about making sure we get the fans back to the ballpark but part of that comes from a show of commitment from the front office and more importantly, ownership.

    Having said that, its still primarily all about the Wilpons checkbook. If Sandy only adds a middling reliever instead of getting a money-dump guy like Street between now and the end of the month, that will be a sign to me that the Wilpons have really put a clamp on him financially.

    Leave a comment:


  • Shea Knight
    replied
    Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
    So you want to give up nothing in Turner, and get back quality pen help? Murphy may get you back what you need. Turner will get you back a rasin bag

    The Pads are strapped for offense Turner doesn't work for them. I would like to see Murphy go--- its time. If he brings back some quality then it's a no brainier.
    If he brings back a Hanrahan, or someone of that caliber, sure...but as Murphy's a good hitter for us, and is heating up, I don't want to see him go for just another pair of forgettable arms.

    If we give up Murphy, we need "a name" amongst relievers, not just a few no-names.

    Leave a comment:


  • CokeMachineGlow
    replied
    Turner, Valdespin, and Tejada are one of the main reasons we should trade Murphy. We have good depth at 2B, and Murphy has been pretty poor as of late. I don't doubt he'll be able to bounce back and become a serviceable starter, but we have other needs to cover - and we won't be losing much value at second, neither.

    That deal makes way too much sense for both sides.

    Leave a comment:


  • Paulypal
    replied
    Originally posted by Shea Knight View Post
    I'd keep Murphy...

    I'd be more inclined to trade one of our decent bench players--say, Justin Turner, who can play different positions and is a passable hitter--and one of our outfielders (preferably not Captain Kirk, anyone else I could live parting with, though I think it'd be great for everyone if we could find a team Bay would waive his no-trade clause for, but he might not be buyer-friendly anymore with all those injuries) for a reliever or two.
    So you want to give up nothing in Turner, and get back quality pen help? Murphy may get you back what you need. Turner will get you back a rasin bag

    The Pads are strapped for offense Turner doesn't work for them. I would like to see Murphy go--- its time. If he brings back some quality then it's a no brainier.
    Last edited by Paulypal; 07-01-2012, 01:57 PM.

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  • Shea Knight
    replied
    Originally posted by CokeMachineGlow View Post
    That exact comment was from weeks back, so I suppose we don't really need a starting pitcher. Our rotation is sparkling at the moment.

    We can keep most valuable assets, while ridding ourselves of players with modest value. Daniel Murphy to San Diego can possibly net us a reliever or two - they need a second basemen and they have a surplus in their 'pen. We can potentially net a Gregerson or a Thatcher.

    That's just one idea, though.
    I'd keep Murphy...

    I'd be more inclined to trade one of our decent bench players--say, Justin Turner, who can play different positions and is a passable hitter--and one of our outfielders (preferably not Captain Kirk, anyone else I could live parting with, though I think it'd be great for everyone if we could find a team Bay would waive his no-trade clause for, but he might not be buyer-friendly anymore with all those injuries) for a reliever or two.

    Leave a comment:


  • CokeMachineGlow
    replied
    Originally posted by VIBaseball View Post
    With what, exactly? Who of value is on your trading block that can attract the toughest commodities to obtain?
    That exact comment was from weeks back, so I suppose we don't really need a starting pitcher. Our rotation is sparkling at the moment.

    We can keep most valuable assets, while ridding ourselves of players with modest value. Daniel Murphy to San Diego can possibly net us a reliever or two - they need a second basemen and they have a surplus in their 'pen. We can potentially net a Gregerson or a Thatcher.

    That's just one idea, though.

    Leave a comment:


  • Strawman
    replied
    Originally posted by milladrive View Post
    LOL



    Straw, no matter how it's sliced, whatever he is capable of doing monetarily is solely in the pockets of the people who pay the bills. Sure, regardless of how much money he's got to work with, he's got the ability to make good moves and bad moves, but when it comes to being buyers or sellers, it's completely and utterly in the hands of the owners, not the GM.

    Geez, 635 posts. How many more until you grasp this concept?
    I grasp the concept - but I still believe Richard "Sandy" Alderson has some influence over what the Wilpons do with the Mets, based on his long experience in baseball. He's not entirely the dupe, stooge, front-man, loser, phony, pretend, erstaz, unreasonable facsmile GM that you guys are always arguing that he is!

    Leave a comment:


  • VIBaseball
    replied
    Originally posted by CokeMachineGlow View Post
    Buyers.

    If we're able to net another quality starting pitcher and another bullpen arm, our chances rise exponentially.
    With what, exactly? Who of value is on your trading block that can attract the toughest commodities to obtain?

    Leave a comment:


  • milladrive
    replied
    Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
    "I hope he does". No you don't. Really you dont
    LOL

    Originally posted by Strawman View Post
    Heck yeah I do - if he "takes a bullet" for Fred, he'll deserve what he gets from the fan base. If he makes the right moves and positions this decent Mets team for an actual run, he'll deserve the praise. Simple as that.
    Straw, no matter how it's sliced, whatever he is capable of doing monetarily is solely in the pockets of the people who pay the bills. Sure, regardless of how much money he's got to work with, he's got the ability to make good moves and bad moves, but when it comes to being buyers or sellers, it's completely and utterly in the hands of the owners, not the GM.

    Geez, 635 posts. How many more until you grasp this concept?

    Leave a comment:


  • Strawman
    replied
    Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
    He will upgrade if given the resources or he will again take a bullet for Fred.


    "I hope he does". No you don't. Really you dont
    Heck yeah I do - if he "takes a bullet" for Fred, he'll deserve what he gets from the fan base. If he makes the right moves and positions this decent Mets team for an actual run, he'll deserve the praise. Simple as that.

    Leave a comment:


  • Paulypal
    replied
    Originally posted by Strawman View Post
    Sooner than we perhaps expected, this is Sandy Alderson's first big moment with the Mets. If you think he's not here for the long-term (and I'm sure he's not) then Alderson has a real legacy-level choice to make in the next few weeks. Does he acquire bullpen help now and spend some dough, or does he continue the limited budget, build-for-future propaganda and just let it slide.

    My view: with an upgraded bullpen this decent but not-great team can contend for the post-season in 2012. The juggernauts in the NL have not materialized. It's a fairly "flat" year in terms of standings and leads in the divisional and WC races. The Mets are good enough to sneak in - except in one obvious, glaring area: the one area on the team that bears Alderson's personal stamp this season. And that's the bullpen.

    There are various styles of rumors out there: actual names, the passive "wait and see" storyline Alderson always pushes "off the record" with the media, and talk of bringing up arms from the minors. The latter will not work. They're not ready, maybe not that good. The "waiting" scenario is untenable with the fans, I think (though I could be wrong - the Kool-Aid of the mystical "don't mortgage the future" line still fools some fans, to my surprise). To me, he's got to acquire two ML arms, one of closer quality.

    This next month is Alderson's key moment - so far - in his Mets tenure. Will he pass the test? I hope he does!!
    He will upgrade if given the resources or he will again take a bullet for Fred.


    "I hope he does". No you don't. Really you dont

    Leave a comment:


  • Strawman
    replied
    Sooner than we perhaps expected, this is Sandy Alderson's first big moment with the Mets. If you think he's not here for the long-term (and I'm sure he's not) then Alderson has a real legacy-level choice to make in the next few weeks. Does he acquire bullpen help now and spend some dough, or does he continue the limited budget, build-for-future propaganda and just let it slide.

    My view: with an upgraded bullpen this decent but not-great team can contend for the post-season in 2012. The juggernauts in the NL have not materialized. It's a fairly "flat" year in terms of standings and leads in the divisional and WC races. The Mets are good enough to sneak in - except in one obvious, glaring area: the one area on the team that bears Alderson's personal stamp this season. And that's the bullpen.

    There are various styles of rumors out there: actual names, the passive "wait and see" storyline Alderson always pushes "off the record" with the media, and talk of bringing up arms from the minors. The latter will not work. They're not ready, maybe not that good. The "waiting" scenario is untenable with the fans, I think (though I could be wrong - the Kool-Aid of the mystical "don't mortgage the future" line still fools some fans, to my surprise). To me, he's got to acquire two ML arms, one of closer quality.

    This next month is Alderson's key moment - so far - in his Mets tenure. Will he pass the test? I hope he does!!

    Leave a comment:

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