Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The Sandy Alderson Thread

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
    What I would really like to see is the Mets draft and develop players. Real quality players, not just hype. No Generation K's...or the next Tom Seaver, or Ty Cobb, Ted Williams (or whoever else they threw at us). Legit quality. Make some sensible trades. Then when the time is right sign the big name (s) to put the team over the top, and to lead the team.

    At the same time I dont want a Tampa Bay, or Kansas City situation that when the player is FA eligible he is gone. I want the Mets to be able to sign that player long term so we really start to develop some team history. Right now the team history is pathetic. For a team that 50 years old its almost a joke. Right now signing a player to the type of contract Wright makes no sense.

    The team is going no where. So I think developing from the ground up at this point is the way to go. For the last 4 years the team has chased its own tail and it has gone no where. Fans have been given a serious dose of false hope. This type of plan can take some time, but look at all the time and energy that was wasted in the past 4 seasons.

    {What I would really like to see is the Mets draft and develop players. Real quality players, not just hype. No Generation K's...or the next Tom Seaver, or Ty Cobb, Ted Williams (or whoever else they threw at us). Legit quality. Make some sensible trades. Then when the time is right sign the big name (s) to put the team over the top, and to lead the team.} Sounds like the mid 80s team. Good talent from the farm and good trades for established stars. Thats what every team wants to do but the problem is some cant miss prospects miss! I really did not hear too much over hyping of the current Mets young players/prospects. I was actually pleasently suprised with the performance of some guys like Davis, Tejada, Gee, Murphy. None of these guys are superstars but they are players that can fill productive spots on MLB rosters. We were told by the experts a few years ago the Mets had no talent in the farm system, that was not true.

    {At the same time I dont want a Tampa Bay, or Kansas City situation that when the player is FA eligible he is gone. I want the Mets to be able to sign that player long term so we really start to develop some team history. Right now the team history is pathetic. For a team that 50 years old its almost a joke. Right now signing a player to the type of contract Wright makes no sense.} I would sign up for a Tampa Bay tomorrow. That they can compete with the Yankees and Red Sox is a tribute to there front office. They aviod signing the late 20s players to long term contracts which do not work most of the time. They may look bad for the 1st or 2nd year after a trade but there ex players are usually washed up while still being paid by some other team. Again, not a easy thing to do and do right.

    {The team is going no where. So I think developing from the ground up at this point is the way to go. For the last 4 years the team has chased its own tail and it has gone no where. Fans have been given a serious dose of false hope. This type of plan can take some time, but look at all the time and energy that was wasted in the past 4 seasons} Going nowhere? no. Still has a ways to go? Yes. They are almost done with weeding out there ridiculous contracts of the last few years. They do have a promising Young pitching rotation. Which is what all good teams are built around. Once they get Bay and Santana off there payroll thay can fairly be judged on there willingness to take on salary. I do not think they wasted time and energy, I just think they were killed by bad contracts and not knowing how much money they would have during the Madoff trial. The best gift they could have given the fans would have been to sell the team but if the new owner did not want or could not eat the overpriced contracts they would have been in the same boat. I do not think it is a effective strategy to spend your way to a championship anymore in the supposedly no steriod era. Most of these free agents are in the decline of there careers and want big money. Unfortunately it takes time and more losses than wins as far as player development to build the kind of team WE all want. A winning team.

    The key to sanity for a Mets fan currently is to enjoy the build. Be able to enjoy a 7 inning 1 run and 9 strikeout performance from Matt Harvey even after the team has lost 4 in a row. Watch a Tejada look like a veteran major league shortstop even though he is in his early 20s. I still found a lot of fun reasons to go to Citi and root for the Mets last year. Some had to do with the product on the field, some didn't. I understand why a lot of people are down on them but I think if life long fans stick with them now, watching them win in 3 or 4 more years will be much more gratifying then currently killing them for everything and suddenly putting the hat back on when they turn things around. I know I will feel better about myself as a Met fan if I "stay the course" (Just my personal opinion)
    Last edited by rjsallstars; 11-03-2012, 05:46 AM.

    Comment


    • NY Daily News Article

      http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...icle-1.1197796

      NY Mets general manager Sandy Alderson isn't going to get chance to increase payroll, so he needs to work some Oakland A's magic in Queens
      This job turned out to be more difficult than Alderson envisioned, between the financial handcuffs and a farm system severely lacking in depth. On the other hand, he was allowed to bring in his high-priced dream team of execs, former GMs J.P. Ricciardi and Paul DePodesta, to restore order to the franchise.


      excerpts:

      The Mets have made it clear they won’t be adding payroll anytime soon, and while that continues to be a sad commentary on the state of their finances, even with the Bernie Madoff saga mostly behind them, it doesn’t mean GM Sandy Alderson should get any kind of pass this winter.
      Alderson’s legacy with the Mets may well turn out to be his trade of Carlos Beltran for Zack Wheeler, if the 22-year-old righthander lives up to the hype, but right now that’s not enough.



      Other than Wheeler, there has been little evidence of that so far.
      In fact, Alderson got smoked last winter on the Angel Pagan trade, as it turned out, as the world-champion Giants quickly gained a measure of revenge for the Wheeler deal, since neither Andres Torres nor Ramon Ramirez helped the Mets in 2012.
      And so far the Mets GM hasn’t done so well signing relievers, from D.J. Carrasco to Jon Rauch to Frank Francisco.
      So as the GM meetings begin in Palm Springs on Wednesday, it seems fair to say Alderson has plenty to prove over the next few months.


      Now, I agree that Sandy 'got smoked' on the Pagan trade. And I agree that the GIANTS made a huge mistake giving up a very good pitching prospect in renting Beltran for 3 months. The Giants needed to sign Beltran to an extension if they make that trade. The Giants also thought they could repeat in 2011 with Betran...they finished 4 games out. However, as Beltran led St Louis to the 7th game of the NLCS, the Giants prevailed in 2012. I would think Beltran would have helped the Giants in 2012 if they had signed him.

      So let's see...the Mets have a very good pitching prospect. The Giants won their second WS championship in 3 seasons.....which is equal to all of the WS won in 51 years by the Mets. Going into 2013...would you rather be a Giants fan or a Mets fan? If you were a manager, which team would you want? As a player , which team would you prefer to play for? Who has a better chance at the 2013 Post season?

      In 2012, the Mets cut payroll 22% to $93 million. With Bay out of the way, the payroll is free of another $18 million. It looks like the Mets only have $54.5 milllion committed to 2013? (16th in baseball).
      http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/0...mmitments.html

      Comment


      • Originally posted by mandrake View Post
        http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...icle-1.1197796

        NY Mets general manager Sandy Alderson isn't going to get chance to increase payroll, so he needs to work some Oakland A's magic in Queens
        This job turned out to be more difficult than Alderson envisioned, between the financial handcuffs and a farm system severely lacking in depth. On the other hand, he was allowed to bring in his high-priced dream team of execs, former GMs J.P. Ricciardi and Paul DePodesta, to restore order to the franchise.


        excerpts:

        The Mets have made it clear they won’t be adding payroll anytime soon, and while that continues to be a sad commentary on the state of their finances, even with the Bernie Madoff saga mostly behind them, it doesn’t mean GM Sandy Alderson should get any kind of pass this winter.
        Alderson’s legacy with the Mets may well turn out to be his trade of Carlos Beltran for Zack Wheeler, if the 22-year-old righthander lives up to the hype, but right now that’s not enough.



        Other than Wheeler, there has been little evidence of that so far.
        In fact, Alderson got smoked last winter on the Angel Pagan trade, as it turned out, as the world-champion Giants quickly gained a measure of revenge for the Wheeler deal, since neither Andres Torres nor Ramon Ramirez helped the Mets in 2012.
        And so far the Mets GM hasn’t done so well signing relievers, from D.J. Carrasco to Jon Rauch to Frank Francisco.
        So as the GM meetings begin in Palm Springs on Wednesday, it seems fair to say Alderson has plenty to prove over the next few months.


        Now, I agree that Sandy 'got smoked' on the Pagan trade. And I agree that the GIANTS made a huge mistake giving up a very good pitching prospect in renting Beltran for 3 months. The Giants needed to sign Beltran to an extension if they make that trade. The Giants also thought they could repeat in 2011 with Betran...they finished 4 games out. However, as Beltran led St Louis to the 7th game of the NLCS, the Giants prevailed in 2012. I would think Beltran would have helped the Giants in 2012 if they had signed him.

        So let's see...the Mets have a very good pitching prospect. The Giants won their second WS championship in 3 seasons.....which is equal to all of the WS won in 51 years by the Mets. Going into 2013...would you rather be a Giants fan or a Mets fan? If you were a manager, which team would you want? As a player , which team would you prefer to play for? Who has a better chance at the 2013 Post season?

        In 2012, the Mets cut payroll 22% to $93 million. With Bay out of the way, the payroll is free of another $18 million. It looks like the Mets only have $54.5 milllion committed to 2013? (16th in baseball).
        http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/0...mmitments.html

        The Giants are the team they are because of there pitching, not there ex mets. They were able to make a trade for Beltran because they were loaded with pitchers and could afford to trade a good young player. The way the Mets can be like the Giants is if they develop there pitching and no amount of payroll can do that. BTw, I do not think the Giants payroll is much over 100 million. Another example of its not how much you spend but how you spend it. The Mets have spent there money foolishly over the last few years. If they spent there 85/100 million wisely they would be contenders. Lets hope Sandy can do that, whats done is done.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by mandrake View Post
          http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...icle-1.1197796

          NY Mets general manager Sandy Alderson isn't going to get chance to increase payroll, so he needs to work some Oakland A's magic in Queens
          This job turned out to be more difficult than Alderson envisioned, between the financial handcuffs and a farm system severely lacking in depth. On the other hand, he was allowed to bring in his high-priced dream team of execs, former GMs J.P. Ricciardi and Paul DePodesta, to restore order to the franchise.


          excerpts:

          The Mets have made it clear they won’t be adding payroll anytime soon, and while that continues to be a sad commentary on the state of their finances, even with the Bernie Madoff saga mostly behind them, it doesn’t mean GM Sandy Alderson should get any kind of pass this winter.
          Alderson’s legacy with the Mets may well turn out to be his trade of Carlos Beltran for Zack Wheeler, if the 22-year-old righthander lives up to the hype, but right now that’s not enough.



          Other than Wheeler, there has been little evidence of that so far.
          In fact, Alderson got smoked last winter on the Angel Pagan trade, as it turned out, as the world-champion Giants quickly gained a measure of revenge for the Wheeler deal, since neither Andres Torres nor Ramon Ramirez helped the Mets in 2012.
          And so far the Mets GM hasn’t done so well signing relievers, from D.J. Carrasco to Jon Rauch to Frank Francisco.
          So as the GM meetings begin in Palm Springs on Wednesday, it seems fair to say Alderson has plenty to prove over the next few months.


          Now, I agree that Sandy 'got smoked' on the Pagan trade. And I agree that the GIANTS made a huge mistake giving up a very good pitching prospect in renting Beltran for 3 months. The Giants needed to sign Beltran to an extension if they make that trade. The Giants also thought they could repeat in 2011 with Betran...they finished 4 games out. However, as Beltran led St Louis to the 7th game of the NLCS, the Giants prevailed in 2012. I would think Beltran would have helped the Giants in 2012 if they had signed him.

          So let's see...the Mets have a very good pitching prospect. The Giants won their second WS championship in 3 seasons.....which is equal to all of the WS won in 51 years by the Mets. Going into 2013...would you rather be a Giants fan or a Mets fan? If you were a manager, which team would you want? As a player , which team would you prefer to play for? Who has a better chance at the 2013 Post season?

          In 2012, the Mets cut payroll 22% to $93 million. With Bay out of the way, the payroll is free of another $18 million. It looks like the Mets only have $54.5 milllion committed to 2013? (16th in baseball).
          http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/0...mmitments.html

          The Giants are the team they are because of there pitching, not there ex mets. They were able to make a trade for Beltran because they were loaded with pitchers and could afford to trade a good young player. The way the Mets can be like the Giants is if they develop there pitching and no amount of payroll can do that. BTw, I do not think the Giants payroll is much over 100 million. Another example of its not how much you spend but how you spend it. The Mets have spent there money foolishly over the last few years. If they spent there 85/100 million wisely they would be contenders. Lets hope Sandy can do that, whats done is done.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by mandrake View Post
            http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...icle-1.1197796

            NY Mets general manager Sandy Alderson isn't going to get chance to increase payroll, so he needs to work some Oakland A's magic in Queens
            This job turned out to be more difficult than Alderson envisioned, between the financial handcuffs and a farm system severely lacking in depth. On the other hand, he was allowed to bring in his high-priced dream team of execs, former GMs J.P. Ricciardi and Paul DePodesta, to restore order to the franchise.


            excerpts:

            The Mets have made it clear they won’t be adding payroll anytime soon, and while that continues to be a sad commentary on the state of their finances, even with the Bernie Madoff saga mostly behind them, it doesn’t mean GM Sandy Alderson should get any kind of pass this winter.
            Alderson’s legacy with the Mets may well turn out to be his trade of Carlos Beltran for Zack Wheeler, if the 22-year-old righthander lives up to the hype, but right now that’s not enough.



            Other than Wheeler, there has been little evidence of that so far.
            In fact, Alderson got smoked last winter on the Angel Pagan trade, as it turned out, as the world-champion Giants quickly gained a measure of revenge for the Wheeler deal, since neither Andres Torres nor Ramon Ramirez helped the Mets in 2012.
            And so far the Mets GM hasn’t done so well signing relievers, from D.J. Carrasco to Jon Rauch to Frank Francisco.
            So as the GM meetings begin in Palm Springs on Wednesday, it seems fair to say Alderson has plenty to prove over the next few months.


            Now, I agree that Sandy 'got smoked' on the Pagan trade. And I agree that the GIANTS made a huge mistake giving up a very good pitching prospect in renting Beltran for 3 months. The Giants needed to sign Beltran to an extension if they make that trade. The Giants also thought they could repeat in 2011 with Betran...they finished 4 games out. However, as Beltran led St Louis to the 7th game of the NLCS, the Giants prevailed in 2012. I would think Beltran would have helped the Giants in 2012 if they had signed him.

            So let's see...the Mets have a very good pitching prospect. The Giants won their second WS championship in 3 seasons.....which is equal to all of the WS won in 51 years by the Mets. Going into 2013...would you rather be a Giants fan or a Mets fan? If you were a manager, which team would you want? As a player , which team would you prefer to play for? Who has a better chance at the 2013 Post season?

            In 2012, the Mets cut payroll 22% to $93 million. With Bay out of the way, the payroll is free of another $18 million. It looks like the Mets only have $54.5 milllion committed to 2013? (16th in baseball).
            http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/0...mmitments.html
            I thought the Mets still have to pay Bay? How is the payroll free of another 18 mil? Boy I wish it was that easy.

            Comment


            • They do have to pay Bay......but it appears it could be spread out. They have not released details, but it could be spread out over 3 years, or 6 years , or Bonilla like ! So whatever they actually pay him in 2013 is what is charged towards 2013.....it really is that easy !!!

              I don't know there the $54.5 number comes from however, since I just provided the link and I did not study the breakdown.:flow:

              Comment


              • http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...TSecondStories

                excerpts, for the few on here that don't like the Wall Street Journal and don't want to look at the link:

                "It would be a little unusual to trade a Cy Young winner," Sandy Alderson said Thursday, standing in a hotel lobby during the general managers' meetings.
                But more and more, trading Dickey seems like the right and necessary thing to do. The Mets are starting to gauge interest from other teams, even as they publicly maintain their desire to sign him to a long-term extension. That is in no way an indictment of Dickey and every bit an indictment of the Mets' roster.
                After losing 88 games this year, the Mets as presently constructed don't figure to be much better in 2013. They could be worse. Their most important task this winter—arguably even more important than signing David Wright to an extension—is broadening their base of young talent, with an eye on 2014 and beyond.


                How concerned is he about the state of his outfield? "What outfield?" Alderson cracked. "We're going to bring those fences in another 150 feet."
                The only player the Mets have penciled in as a starting outfielder next year is Lucas Duda, who recently broke his wrist carrying furniture, a Metsian feat if ever there was one. With Jason Bay gone, Duda will likely start in left field."He does come with a lot of furniture, though," Alderson said, continuing his stand-up act. "I meant baggage."

                There are too many long-term question marks at too many positions, from the outfield to catcher to second base. When asked where the Mets would find suitable outfielders this winter, Alderson said, "I don't know, a cardboard box?"

                "What can we get in relation to the value we think that pitcher represents?" Alderson said. "It's all about leveraging the value."At age 38 and coming off a spectacular season, Dickey's value will likely never be higher. He's only under contract through 2013, but he's due just $5 million next year, a bargain that will no doubt entice other teams.Trading him would mark a sad end to his remarkable rise with the organization. But it's not as bad as keeping him and Wright, only to find themselves unable to build a contender around them.



                So to the very few eternal optimists here.....is there anything that Sandy Alderson said , even jokingly, that points to the Mets not sucking again in 2013?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by mandrake View Post
                  They do have to pay Bay......but it appears it could be spread out. They have not released details, but it could be spread out over 3 years, or 6 years , or Bonilla like ! So whatever they actually pay him in 2013 is what is charged towards 2013.....it really is that easy !!!

                  I don't know there the $54.5 number comes from however, since I just provided the link and I did not study the breakdown.:flow:
                  From what I have read, the local news-scribes all say the contract will not be spread out for many years. I guess we will find out but as a optimistic Met fan I take it as a good move and may help free up some payroll to add a productive outfielder. If the day ever comes that I cannot be an optimistic Met fan, I will choose not to follow them as closely as I currently do.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by mandrake View Post
                    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...TSecondStories

                    excerpts, for the few on here that don't like the Wall Street Journal and don't want to look at the link:

                    "It would be a little unusual to trade a Cy Young winner," Sandy Alderson said Thursday, standing in a hotel lobby during the general managers' meetings.
                    But more and more, trading Dickey seems like the right and necessary thing to do. The Mets are starting to gauge interest from other teams, even as they publicly maintain their desire to sign him to a long-term extension. That is in no way an indictment of Dickey and every bit an indictment of the Mets' roster.
                    After losing 88 games this year, the Mets as presently constructed don't figure to be much better in 2013. They could be worse. Their most important task this winter—arguably even more important than signing David Wright to an extension—is broadening their base of young talent, with an eye on 2014 and beyond.


                    How concerned is he about the state of his outfield? "What outfield?" Alderson cracked. "We're going to bring those fences in another 150 feet."
                    The only player the Mets have penciled in as a starting outfielder next year is Lucas Duda, who recently broke his wrist carrying furniture, a Metsian feat if ever there was one. With Jason Bay gone, Duda will likely start in left field."He does come with a lot of furniture, though," Alderson said, continuing his stand-up act. "I meant baggage."

                    There are too many long-term question marks at too many positions, from the outfield to catcher to second base. When asked where the Mets would find suitable outfielders this winter, Alderson said, "I don't know, a cardboard box?"

                    "What can we get in relation to the value we think that pitcher represents?" Alderson said. "It's all about leveraging the value."At age 38 and coming off a spectacular season, Dickey's value will likely never be higher. He's only under contract through 2013, but he's due just $5 million next year, a bargain that will no doubt entice other teams.Trading him would mark a sad end to his remarkable rise with the organization. But it's not as bad as keeping him and Wright, only to find themselves unable to build a contender around them.



                    So to the very few eternal optimists here.....is there anything that Sandy Alderson said , even jokingly, that points to the Mets not sucking again in 2013?
                    You are 100% correct. But then again, if you think Sandy Alderson is going to show his hand in the beginning of November to the press at a preliminary general managers meeting I would like to interest you in the purchase of a historic NYC bridge that has beautiful lower Manhattan views!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by rjsallstars View Post
                      You are 100% correct. But then again, if you think Sandy Alderson is going to show his hand in the beginning of November to the press at a preliminary general managers meeting I would like to interest you in the purchase of a historic NYC bridge that has beautiful lower Manhattan views!
                      Sandy Alderson has refused to "show his hand" for more than two years now. He has no hand. And the bluff ran out a long time ago.
                      Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Strawman View Post
                        Sandy Alderson has refused to "show his hand" for more than two years now. He has no hand. And the bluff ran out a long time ago.
                        Keeping this thread alive. Its like the Frankenstein monster. I am going to get some towns people with pitch-forks and torches to rid of this.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Strawman View Post
                          Sandy Alderson has refused to "show his hand" for more than two years now. He has no hand. And the bluff ran out a long time ago.
                          I would think a CY Young finalist and a young lefty with a reasonable long term contract are 2 pretty good trade chips.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
                            Keeping this thread alive. Its like the Frankenstein monster. I am going to get some towns people with pitch-forks and torches to rid of this.
                            Ha - Pauly, you crack me up. This thread has a life of its own and doesn't need to be kept alive by me - look at the last few pages. Alderson's job performance is basically *the* most important aspect of the Mets story right now, this off-season and how he rebuilds this team - or doesn't.
                            Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Strawman View Post
                              Ha - Pauly, you crack me up. This thread has a life of its own and doesn't need to be kept alive by me - look at the last few pages. Alderson's job performance is basically *the* most important aspect of the Mets story right now, this off-season and how he rebuilds this team - or doesn't.
                              Not really. It's a ridiculous charade intended to draw attention from the elephant in the room: the Coupons couldn't care less about winning and refuse to spend money on the team. Any good players are dealt or walk. Alderson's only job is to take a measure of heat off the Wilpons so, when they throw him under the bus and get another puppet, they can connive fans into thinking things will be different.

                              Most of us realized this a long time ago. We'll find out what his payoff was or wasn't for this ugly job sometime in the future: Sandy's dealing with toxic villains and might not get the payoff he's probably expecting - most likely becoming the next Commissioner of Baseball. That's the only question left. Somehow this thread continues anyway. It's counterproductive in that it takes the focus away from the fact that everyone on this board cares more about the Mets winning than the owners, who keep borrowing against Met related assets and paying themselves 9 figure dividends almost yearly. The Wilpon pillage is the story here. Alderson is just a sideshow. He's irrelevant.


                              "The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Mongoose View Post
                                Not really. It's a ridiculous charade intended to draw attention from the elephant in the room: the Coupons couldn't care less about winning and refuse to spend money on the team. Any good players are dealt or walk. Alderson's only job is to take a measure of heat off the Wilpons so, when they throw him under the bus and get another puppet, they can connive fans into thinking things will be different.

                                Most of us realized this a long time ago. We'll find out what his payoff was or wasn't for this ugly job sometime in the future: Sandy's dealing with toxic villains and might not get the payoff he's probably expecting - most likely becoming the next Commissioner of Baseball. That's the only question left. Somehow this thread continues anyway. It's counterproductive in that it takes the focus away from the fact that everyone on this board cares more about the Mets winning than the owners, who keep borrowing against Met related assets and paying themselves 9 figure dividends almost yearly. The Wilpon pillage is the story here. Alderson is just a sideshow. He's irrelevant.
                                And the cast from Blazing Saddles breaks into the song "The Inquisition".

                                Comment

                                Ad Widget

                                Collapse
                                Working...
                                X