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The Sandy Alderson Thread

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  • Strawman
    replied
    Originally posted by CokeMachineGlow View Post
    I vehemently disagree with the notion that Alderson has been a failure. He's resuscitated what was considered a lifeless farm to something close to above-average. We may have lost a key cornerstone in Reyes, but we gain potential above-average homegrown pieces in Tejada, Murphy, Duda, and Thole. Alderson successfully implemented his austerity measures to prevent any fiscal problems.
    None of those are Alderson acquisitions.

    I just can't agree with the no-pain no-gain scenario - and I don't think it will pan out. He'll be long gone anyway, if it does or it doesn't.

    Leave a comment:


  • CokeMachineGlow
    replied
    I vehemently disagree with the notion that Alderson has been a failure. He's resuscitated what was considered a lifeless farm to something close to above-average. We may have lost a key cornerstone in Reyes, but we gain potential above-average homegrown pieces in Tejada, Murphy, Duda, and Thole. Alderson successfully implemented his austerity measures to prevent any fiscal problems.

    I think posters here are having trouble seeing the big picture. Alderson isn't here to cuddle with the fans, but is re-building an inept organization to brighten the future. I wouldn't be surprised if he already has his heir in place after his contract ends. Simply put, debt-ridden Greece is similar to the defunct Mets organization. What the leaders in Greece are doing is inducing riots and controversy, but it's ultimately for the better good. Alderson's actions are being negatively criticized by fans and the media, but his actions are ultimately for the better good.

    Lets think beyond the box and use are ability to think rationally to measure this situation - not all of this speculation and slip shod criticism.

    Leave a comment:


  • Paulypal
    replied
    Originally posted by Strawman View Post
    Alderson didn't come here to be "under orders" to anyone - or so I've been told 1,000 times by guys selling his supposed tough guy take-no-orders reputation.

    Meanwhile, the Reyes disaster aside - and it will remain one of the all-time franchise disasters in a franchise known for them - things continue to deteriorate. Alderson picked up Pelfrey's expensive option and now wants to deal him on the cheap. How pathetic. And the guy can't even run a competent 40-man roster!

    http://www.metsblog.com/2012/03/24/m...e-to-injuries/
    And it's back

    How many employees are not "under orders" from their boss. By your theory Alderson could have signed Pujols.....of course he could have...he isnt under orders he does what he wants.
    Last edited by Paulypal; 03-25-2012, 06:27 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Strawman
    replied
    Originally posted by theAmazingMet View Post
    If Alderson had such great vision than he should've traded Reyes during the season rather than lose him for a pick. Doesn't make any sense to hold onto a player that was obviously not going to resign, or be given a competitive contract offer to resign. I wonder if Alderson was under orders from Jeffrey to keep Reyes in order to get fans in the seats? After all Reyes was chasing the batting title. I'm sure it's not outside the realm of possibilities that the Wilson's would sacrifice the future for a few bucks in extra ticket sales at the end of another meaningless season.
    Alderson didn't come here to be "under orders" to anyone - or so I've been told 1,000 times by guys selling his supposed tough guy take-no-orders reputation.

    Meanwhile, the Reyes disaster aside - and it will remain one of the all-time franchise disasters in a franchise known for them - things continue to deteriorate. Alderson picked up Pelfrey's expensive option and now wants to deal him on the cheap. How pathetic. And the guy can't even run a competent 40-man roster!

    http://www.metsblog.com/2012/03/24/m...e-to-injuries/

    Leave a comment:


  • theAmazingMet
    replied
    If Alderson had such great vision than he should've traded Reyes during the season rather than lose him for a pick. Doesn't make any sense to hold onto a player that was obviously not going to resign, or be given a competitive contract offer to resign. I wonder if Alderson was under orders from Jeffrey to keep Reyes in order to get fans in the seats? After all Reyes was chasing the batting title. I'm sure it's not outside the realm of possibilities that the Wilson's would sacrifice the future for a few bucks in extra ticket sales at the end of another meaningless season.

    Leave a comment:


  • Strawman
    replied
    Originally posted by Ralf View Post
    My post wasn't directed at one particular person, but a number of fans that I read on many boards. Alderson has literally had 1 season under his belt and 2 off-seasons. In that first off-season, he could not add any money to the bloated roster that was handed to him. With his hands pretty much tied, he made some short term and long term moves that for the most part worked out in our favor. The short term - Harris, Hariston, etc served their purpose. The long term - Beato, Wheeler, playing Duda everyday, etc were excellent decisions likely to bear fruit. At the same time, he made a public and documented effort to resign our precious home-grown star in July, only to be denied by the player and his handlers who, in my opinion, showed zero loyalty to his franchise and was selfishly more concerned with hitting a $number$ than playing in front of his biggest fans for the next 5-6 years. Overall, the team underperformed again, many because of injury. This offseaon, he had to dramatically reduce the payroll (biggest drop in league history) in order to get revenues in line with expenses - clearly a directive from ownership. He (I think) made a great 2 for 1 deal getting Ramirez and Torres for Pagan but definitely seemed to mistime to reliever market (hindsight). The other non-moves relating to depth are, in my opinion, a consequence of lack of resources as well as a philosophy of giving opportunity to the mid-range guys in the upper system in a clear transition year - a very smart move.
    I'm sorry some fans are so short-sided and overly emotional about the current state of the Mets. I hate the Wilpons just as much as the next guy but I also recognize that given the circumstances, we have a pretty good group of talent evaluators/executives in the front office and they seem to have a legit 5 year plan - much like Frank Cashen did in the golden era of Mets. If that means trading Wright for a couple of prospects, so be it. Trading Dickey, so be it. As long as they appear to be sound moves, I'm on board.
    I agree with that last part - once they decided not to retain Reyes, that made it time to deal Wright for future talent. It was (for whatever reasons etc) giving up on that core talent of this generation, the two almost 30-year-olds. So if Alderson deals Wright, it'll actually improve my opinion of his work - though it won't make me very happy!

    Leave a comment:


  • Paulypal
    replied
    Originally posted by Ralf View Post
    My post wasn't directed at one particular person, but a number of fans that I read on many boards. Alderson has literally had 1 season under his belt and 2 off-seasons. In that first off-season, he could not add any money to the bloated roster that was handed to him. With his hands pretty much tied, he made some short term and long term moves that for the most part worked out in our favor. The short term - Harris, Hariston, etc served their purpose. The long term - Beato, Wheeler, playing Duda everyday, etc were excellent decisions likely to bear fruit. At the same time, he made a public and documented effort to resign our precious home-grown star in July, only to be denied by the player and his handlers who, in my opinion, showed zero loyalty to his franchise and was selfishly more concerned with hitting a $number$ than playing in front of his biggest fans for the next 5-6 years. Overall, the team underperformed again, many because of injury. This offseaon, he had to dramatically reduce the payroll (biggest drop in league history) in order to get revenues in line with expenses - clearly a directive from ownership. He (I think) made a great 2 for 1 deal getting Ramirez and Torres for Pagan but definitely seemed to mistime to reliever market (hindsight). The other non-moves relating to depth are, in my opinion, a consequence of lack of resources as well as a philosophy of giving opportunity to the mid-range guys in the upper system in a clear transition year - a very smart move.
    I'm sorry some fans are so short-sided and overly emotional about the current state of the Mets. I hate the Wilpons just as much as the next guy but I also recognize that given the circumstances, we have a pretty good group of talent evaluators/executives in the front office and they seem to have a legit 5 year plan - much like Frank Cashen did in the golden era of Mets. If that means trading Wright for a couple of prospects, so be it. Trading Dickey, so be it. As long as they appear to be sound moves, I'm on board.
    I think trying to gauge Alderson's job performance with the Mets is impossible. He has been a non-entity with no opportunity to build anything.

    Where I disagree with you 100% is saying that Reyes showed no loyalty to his franchise. What was Reyes supposed to do? Wait for the Mets to make a big time low-ball offer?

    Despite what many think on this board or any fans in general playing baseball (or any other sport) is the players JOB. Just like your job you are there to make money. I am sure you are loyal to your boss/company......as long as they return the loyalty. Once that is broken its time to go. Yes the fans love him but they dont sign his check. They may help pay for it but they cant make the offer...can they? What if they offered Jose $75 for 5? (Which they didnt, nor were they in a position to do so) Was he suppose to leave 31 million on the table to be loyal? Would you?

    Leave a comment:


  • Ralf
    replied
    My post wasn't directed at one particular person, but a number of fans that I read on many boards. Alderson has literally had 1 season under his belt and 2 off-seasons. In that first off-season, he could not add any money to the bloated roster that was handed to him. With his hands pretty much tied, he made some short term and long term moves that for the most part worked out in our favor. The short term - Harris, Hariston, etc served their purpose. The long term - Beato, Wheeler, playing Duda everyday, etc were excellent decisions likely to bear fruit. At the same time, he made a public and documented effort to resign our precious home-grown star in July, only to be denied by the player and his handlers who, in my opinion, showed zero loyalty to his franchise and was selfishly more concerned with hitting a $number$ than playing in front of his biggest fans for the next 5-6 years. Overall, the team underperformed again, many because of injury. This offseaon, he had to dramatically reduce the payroll (biggest drop in league history) in order to get revenues in line with expenses - clearly a directive from ownership. He (I think) made a great 2 for 1 deal getting Ramirez and Torres for Pagan but definitely seemed to mistime to reliever market (hindsight). The other non-moves relating to depth are, in my opinion, a consequence of lack of resources as well as a philosophy of giving opportunity to the mid-range guys in the upper system in a clear transition year - a very smart move.
    I'm sorry some fans are so short-sided and overly emotional about the current state of the Mets. I hate the Wilpons just as much as the next guy but I also recognize that given the circumstances, we have a pretty good group of talent evaluators/executives in the front office and they seem to have a legit 5 year plan - much like Frank Cashen did in the golden era of Mets. If that means trading Wright for a couple of prospects, so be it. Trading Dickey, so be it. As long as they appear to be sound moves, I'm on board.

    Leave a comment:


  • Strawman
    replied
    Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
    Strawman is that you? For a minute I thought it was the Dalai Lama.
    Big hitter, the Lama. Just like the Strawman.

    Leave a comment:


  • Paulypal
    replied
    Originally posted by Strawman View Post
    Yeah Ralf's aiming at me, Pauly - I'm the "child lashing out."

    Nothing could be further from the truth. A lifetime of reason and observation reveals the truth about Sandy Alderson's methods and current level of competency. I merely watch what actually happens and play back what he actually says. I watch with a cool, almost metaphysical detachment in the stark, cold light of day. I take a few notes. Then I comment on the evident failure of the Wilpon-Alderson partnership. It's merely the truth.

    I am not one to cast personal aspersions on this board. But it seems to me that the emotional "lashing out" comes from some kind of reflective need to defend Alderson against relevant evidence and statements - I'm not the one basing my statements on some kind of hope and belief. I merely see what I see.

    It seems that there's some kind of anger generated among some in reaction to a long-time Mets fan (me) who values a brilliant all-time homegrown star over a carpet-bagging executive at the end of his career brought in merely to cut down the franchise, an owners' boy who has lied to our faces since moving to Queens. Strange that I don't side with that guy!

    I'm not sure I understand the emotions behind it. I'm not sure I fully understand "the well-educated types" reference either. Neither David Wright nor Jose Reyes have college degrees, and most ballplayers and managers don't. Some of the most successful "baseball minds" come up through the scouting ranks after their playing careers - Gene Michael, architect of the core of the Yankees dynasty, comes to mind. They're not necessarily "dinosaurs" to me.

    Play on.
    Strawman is that you? For a minute I thought it was the Dalai Lama.

    Leave a comment:


  • Strawman
    replied
    Yeah Ralf's aiming at me, Pauly - I'm the "child lashing out."

    Nothing could be further from the truth. A lifetime of reason and observation reveals the truth about Sandy Alderson's methods and current level of competency. I merely watch what actually happens and play back what he actually says. I watch with a cool, almost metaphysical detachment in the stark, cold light of day. I take a few notes. Then I comment on the evident failure of the Wilpon-Alderson partnership. It's merely the truth.

    I am not one to cast personal aspersions on this board. But it seems to me that the emotional "lashing out" comes from some kind of reflective need to defend Alderson against relevant evidence and statements - I'm not the one basing my statements on some kind of hope and belief. I merely see what I see.

    It seems that there's some kind of anger generated among some in reaction to a long-time Mets fan (me) who values a brilliant all-time homegrown star over a carpet-bagging executive at the end of his career brought in merely to cut down the franchise, an owners' boy who has lied to our faces since moving to Queens. Strange that I don't side with that guy!

    I'm not sure I understand the emotions behind it. I'm not sure I fully understand "the well-educated types" reference either. Neither David Wright nor Jose Reyes have college degrees, and most ballplayers and managers don't. Some of the most successful "baseball minds" come up through the scouting ranks after their playing careers - Gene Michael, architect of the core of the Yankees dynasty, comes to mind. They're not necessarily "dinosaurs" to me.

    Play on.

    Leave a comment:


  • Paulypal
    replied
    Originally posted by Ralf View Post
    My comments about the negative emotional reaction some Mets fans have toward Alderson wasn't directed at you. Yours was just the last post in the thread and I was making a general comment on the reactions I've heard and read from some fans.
    Oh ok. Sorry then. If they were directed at Strawman...then fire away. LOL

    Leave a comment:


  • Ralf
    replied
    Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
    If you read my other posts I have been very pro Alderson. I still am. I still think he is a good baseball mind. My point was - which apparently went well over your head - was that this is such a bad time in Met history I want everything associated with it gone. I dont blame Alderson not even 1% for the current state of this team. It is 100% Wilpons fault in my opinion.

    Believe me I havent gotten emotional about the Mets in over 3 years. As far as your petty/childish comments are concerned - you should probably do your homework before you make them. Genius.
    My comments about the negative emotional reaction some Mets fans have toward Alderson wasn't directed at you. Yours was just the last post in the thread and I was making a general comment on the reactions I've heard and read from some fans.

    Leave a comment:


  • Paulypal
    replied
    Originally posted by Ralf View Post
    The funny thing is, I actually agree with most of this (re: the Wilpons) but lumping in Alderson with them seems more like a petty, emotional reaction than anything grounded in reality - like a child lashing out. I can separate the two and recognize that given the circumstances, Sandy's a damn good guy to have around (whether he was forced on us by Selig or not). Unfortunately some fans fail to recognize the situation has NOTHING to do with him and the tantrums follow.

    Given the current state of the franchise, I would much prefer to have the well-educated types (Alderson, DePo, etc) running the show than the dinosaurs like Omar. I just hope they have enough time to build a good farm system to sustain us before Jeffy gets his hands on everything again.

    PS - maybe someone can't point me to the article where Reyes proactively when to the Mets and told them he wanted to figure out a way to stay here so they could work something out. Wait, that never happened......
    If you read my other posts I have been very pro Alderson. I still am. I still think he is a good baseball mind. My point was - which apparently went well over your head - was that this is such a bad time in Met history I want everything associated with it gone. I dont blame Alderson not even 1% for the current state of this team. It is 100% Wilpons fault in my opinion.

    Believe me I havent gotten emotional about the Mets in over 3 years. As far as your petty/childish comments are concerned - you should probably do your homework before you make them. Genius.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ralf
    replied
    Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
    Cmon-- you know they didnt pick him. You know he was ordered on them by Selig. You know Alderson is not Wilpons type of guy. He rather have a stooge at GM, not a Marine.

    I admit I was as happy as anyone about Alderson coming here after 2010, but it was more smoke and mirrors as his hands are tied. Alderson has not been very endearing at all. His "box of chocolates" comment showed little regard for the fans, but also showed that he is as frustrated as anyone else by working for Mutt and Jeff. Aldersons reputation has taken a big hit in my opinion by coming here, being hog-tied, and not being able to do anything of any real substance because his boss was invovled in the biggest scam in human history. I am sure Alderson is about a disgusted as he can get being here. Selig, I am sure realizes he owed Alderson a huge favor for taking on this horrendous task.

    Dont expect Alderson to be around much longer after Jeff gets back on his feet after his slap on the wrist. Wilpon will hire another stooge, and spend money foolishly, and be short sighted about doing it. This sub-human will never change therefore we shouldnt expect much change from the team on the field.
    The funny thing is, I actually agree with most of this (re: the Wilpons) but lumping in Alderson with them seems more like a petty, emotional reaction than anything grounded in reality - like a child lashing out. I can separate the two and recognize that given the circumstances, Sandy's a damn good guy to have around (whether he was forced on us by Selig or not). Unfortunately some fans fail to recognize the situation has NOTHING to do with him and the tantrums follow.

    Given the current state of the franchise, I would much prefer to have the well-educated types (Alderson, DePo, etc) running the show than the dinosaurs like Omar. I just hope they have enough time to build a good farm system to sustain us before Jeffy gets his hands on everything again.

    PS - maybe someone can't point me to the article where Reyes proactively when to the Mets and told them he wanted to figure out a way to stay here so they could work something out. Wait, that never happened......

    Leave a comment:

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