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The Sandy Alderson Thread

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  • PVNICK
    replied
    Originally posted by Strawman View Post
    It's time, well past time. We need a change in leadership.

    Source: Mets pick Terry Collins
    http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/m...ory?id=5835780

    I just think is a horrible mistake by a franchise prone to poor decisions. Terry Collins has never had the respect of modern-day players, he's prickly with the press, and this will resonate as a crucial - and terrible - point in franchise history. They'll actually achieve less under Collins than Jerry.

    Sandy Alderson just got caught lookin' - his very own Beltran moment.
    This was how we opened this thread, my how far it has come since then. At the very least Collins has not turned out (so far) like page one thought he would, nor is anyone clamoring for Backman.

    Leave a comment:


  • Strawman
    replied
    Originally posted by ribant View Post
    Then you should have named the thread "Let's discuss Sandy Alderson's performance and should he be retained". I think Pauly has more than shown not all fans agree with your viewpoint.

    Personally I think it is too early to call.

    I don't care if this stays open or not, but don't try to sell us that you opened the thread for fair minded discussion. You opened it as a place to bash Alderson. That's OK by me, just be honest about your motive.
    Well, I don't care for the term "bash" - criticize is more like it. I saw what Alderson was about early on, and didn't appreciate his passive-aggressive stance, his perfidious pronouncements to fans who actually love New York Mets baseball were offensive to me - sure, the title of the thread is designed to stir the pot, but I think the general criticism in the thread is quite fair - and it's sadly played out much the way it looked last year. Yes, this is a product of the Wilpons' malfeasance, but I think many will agree that Alderson didn't have to come here and be the front man for this mess. And he didn't have to lie about the direction he was taking either.

    Leave a comment:


  • CokeMachineGlow
    replied
    Originally posted by Strawman View Post
    This is small-minded indeed. Why close the thread? As Alderson progresses, it provides a forum for his performance and slipping position with the fans. The deadline was originally tongue-in-cheek (as you know Pauly) but in the last year has edged toward a more serious course. Sure, it's highly unlikely Alderson will ever be fired because he's probably not a long-term hire of his own volition - but I believe (strongly) that his rather cynical performance in dismantling our franchise deserves its own forum - certainly as much as some of the more frivolous threads on here! This is a central and important question in Metsland right now.
    I agree with 'ya here, Strawman. Alderson is here to clean up and refine the mess that is the New York Mets organization. I've actually come to this realization just now, but kudos to you for knowing it all along. I don't really agree with your radical ideas involving Alderson and the "dismantling of our franchise", though -- it's just loaded language to me. I think his, for lack of a better term, refinement of the Mets will lead to an easier transition of power once Alderson leaves office. To clarify, there will be a better farm, a better future, and better budget room and cap space flexibility.

    This isn't sarcasm, by the way, unlike my comment above.

    Leave a comment:


  • ribant
    replied
    Originally posted by Strawman View Post
    This is small-minded indeed. Why close the thread? As Alderson progresses, it provides a forum for his performance and slipping position with the fans. The deadline was originally tongue-in-cheek (as you know Pauly) but in the last year has edged toward a more serious course. Sure, it's highly unlikely Alderson will ever be fired because he's probably not a long-term hire of his own volition - but I believe (strongly) that his rather cynical performance in dismantling our franchise deserves its own forum - certainly as much as some of the more frivolous threads on here! This is a central and important question in Metsland right now.
    Then you should have named the thread "Let's discuss Sandy Alderson's performance and should he be retained". I think Pauly has more than shown not all fans agree with your viewpoint.

    Personally I think it is too early to call.

    I don't care if this stays open or not, but don't try to sell us that you opened the thread for fair minded discussion. You opened it as a place to bash Alderson. That's OK by me, just be honest about your motive.
    Last edited by ribant; 12-12-2011, 02:08 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Strawman
    replied
    Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
    Exactly right, and I am as guilty as anyone.

    That is why this thread needs to be closed. It adds nothing.
    This is small-minded indeed. Why close the thread? As Alderson progresses, it provides a forum for his performance and slipping position with the fans. The deadline was originally tongue-in-cheek (as you know Pauly) but in the last year has edged toward a more serious course. Sure, it's highly unlikely Alderson will ever be fired because he's probably not a long-term hire of his own volition - but I believe (strongly) that his rather cynical performance in dismantling our franchise deserves its own forum - certainly as much as some of the more frivolous threads on here! This is a central and important question in Metsland right now.

    Leave a comment:


  • CokeMachineGlow
    replied
    Originally posted by Strawman View Post
    But two factors argue with that black/white analysis:

    1. He took the job, undoubtedly knowing more than we did (via Selig etc) about the state of the Mets - ergo, he agrees with what's being done to this franchise - because he's doing it. Given his stature as a senior baseball executive, he actually brings the weight of his reputation to this ruinous process. He's not a bystander or somehow trapped in a bad relationship. He's the freaking architect!

    2. His base and despicable (and lately, Omar-like fumbling and bumbling) lies to the fanbase.
    Gee, he's taking a GM job with a baseball team. How dare he know more about the Met's situation more than us petty fans! Oh, we need to end him!

    Leave a comment:


  • Paulypal
    replied
    Originally posted by PVNICK View Post
    So the critcism is that he took the job knowing that is was heinous. You could say if he was an honorable person he would have refused to have any part in this. Other than that I don't see why all the drama on this board over him. If there are quotes saying he was "a savior" or something to that effect from people who knew the situation at the time of the quotes then by all means print them but otherwise this is just page after page after page after page of same post different day.
    Exactly right, and I am as guilty as anyone.

    That is why this thread needs to be closed. It adds nothing.

    Leave a comment:


  • Paulypal
    replied
    Originally posted by Strawman View Post
    But two factors argue with that black/white analysis:

    1. He took the job, undoubtedly knowing more than we did (via Selig etc) about the state of the Mets - ergo, he agrees with what's being done to this franchise - because he's doing it. Given his stature as a senior baseball executive, he actually brings the weight of his reputation to this ruinous process. He's not a bystander or somehow trapped in a bad relationship. He's the freaking architect!

    2. His base and despicable (and lately, Omar-like fumbling and bumbling) lies to the fanbase.
    Of course he knew more. It doesnt matter if he agrees or disagrees. He has a job to do, and his job is to dismantle this team. So far so good from that perspective.

    Selig gave him the job and he is doing it well. Is it popular with Met fans? No it isnt, but lets not forget it is Wilpon that made this necessary.

    Also Strawman I just read the original post in this thread. When you had the brainstorm of firing Alderson. Do you remember why you started this thread? It was because Alderson hired Collins. Somehow I dont hear you complaining about that anymore. I dont hear anyone else complaining about that either. No more screams for Backman.

    I am not a mod but this thread needs to be shut down. Its pointless and points blame in the wrong area.
    Last edited by Paulypal; 12-12-2011, 07:37 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • PVNICK
    replied
    So the critcism is that he took the job knowing that is was heinous. You could say if he was an honorable person he would have refused to have any part in this. Other than that I don't see why all the drama on this board over him. If there are quotes saying he was "a savior" or something to that effect from people who knew the situation at the time of the quotes then by all means print them but otherwise this is just page after page after page after page of same post different day.

    Leave a comment:


  • Strawman
    replied
    Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
    I can answer for you right now. He will do nothing to help the Mets. He is not here to help them win. I really dont understand why you guys cant understand that.

    He is here to help his boss. Fred Wilpon. Thats who signs his checks (I think).

    Alderson would be a great GM with a different owner. Too bad he has Fred as a boss.
    But two factors argue with that black/white analysis:

    1. He took the job, undoubtedly knowing more than we did (via Selig etc) about the state of the Mets - ergo, he agrees with what's being done to this franchise - because he's doing it. Given his stature as a senior baseball executive, he actually brings the weight of his reputation to this ruinous process. He's not a bystander or somehow trapped in a bad relationship. He's the freaking architect!

    2. His base and despicable (and lately, Omar-like fumbling and bumbling) lies to the fanbase.

    Leave a comment:


  • Paulypal
    replied
    Originally posted by SirBLaUghs View Post
    X2.

    When he was hired "they" hyped him up as some super general that will turn this team around. After 1 year, WTF. I still haven't pinned my final opinion about him. Only time will tell what he will do to help our franchise.

    as a Mets fan, time is all I have...

    /rant off.
    I can answer for you right now. He will do nothing to help the Mets. He is not here to help them win. I really dont understand why you guys cant understand that.

    He is here to help his boss. Fred Wilpon. Thats who signs his checks (I think).

    Alderson would be a great GM with a different owner. Too bad he has Fred as a boss.

    Leave a comment:


  • SirBLaUghs
    replied
    Originally posted by Strawman View Post
    Sandy Alderson took a year to entirely wear out his welcome and bring a pinched small market mentality to a great New York franchise. His rank dishonesty to fans is, frankly, somewhat cowardly. Here's Bob Klapisch.
    X2.

    When he was hired "they" hyped him up as some super general that will turn this team around. After 1 year, WTF. I still haven't pinned my final opinion about him. Only time will tell what he will do to help our franchise.

    as a Mets fan, time is all I have...

    /rant off.

    Leave a comment:


  • Paulypal
    replied
    Originally posted by Strawman View Post
    Ollie, Bay and Castillo were Omar's low points. Delgado, Beltran, Pedro, Santana probably the high points. Mixed moves in between - some good, some bad. Horrible communicator.

    Alderson's high point is the Beltran trade for Wheeler. His low point is the Jose Reyes debacle. Horrible communicator.

    Too early to tell who'll be lower in Mets GM history...but Alderson's trending the wrong way.
    You still dont see it. Although you just typed it. You dont even know you know it, but you do.

    You both criticized and commended Omar for players he BOUGHT WITH MONEY. Why? Because the Wilpons had it to spend....good or bad they could throw stolen money around with the best of them.

    Alderson doesnt have it to throw around because the criminals were bagged. So you commended Alderson for the Beltran trade, and criticized him for not signing Reyes. Both moves took payroll off of the Met books. Why? Because the Wilpons dont have it.

    I agree Alderson is not going to leave a great legacy with this team, but timing is everything.

    Leave a comment:


  • Strawman
    replied
    Ollie, Bay and Castillo were Omar's low points. Delgado, Beltran, Pedro, Santana probably the high points. Mixed moves in between - some good, some bad. Horrible communicator.

    Alderson's high point is the Beltran trade for Wheeler. His low point is the Jose Reyes debacle. Horrible communicator.

    Too early to tell who'll be lower in Mets GM history...but Alderson's trending the wrong way.

    Leave a comment:


  • milladrive
    replied
    Originally posted by trepye View Post
    What the heck are you talking about...

    Daniel Murphy
    Jon Niese
    Ike Davis
    Lucas Duda
    Josh Thole
    Pedro Beato
    Dillon Gee
    Henrii Mejia
    Justin Turner

    ...Are all succesful/prominsing products of the Mets farm system under Minaya's tenure. I know many Mets fans did not like him but dont talk crap. Be objective informative and fair.
    I'm glad other posters have replied to this post, for else I'd have a whole lot to say on the subject, both personally and professionally. Besides, it's not like Omar had any real contact with those up-and-coming players.

    Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
    Ok so based on your definition of a succesfully developed player is one that comes up and contributes. You saw contributions from some of the names you mentioned?

    You need to put these names in perspective. Now they were able to come up and play with the Mets because lets face it....they stink, and they are basically a AAA team. These guys wouldnt even get a sniff on some other teams because their is an actual major leaguer playing.

    Nobody expects an All Star at every position, but I think we should rightfully expect to see a major leaguer at every position.

    All I can say about Alderson is that he wasnt given to the resources to retain homegrown talent.
    Thank you.

    Originally posted by Shea Knight View Post
    Contracts to Ollie and Castillo were his biggest mistake--at least we got Ike, Thole, and Gee off the farm...not game-breakers...but at least they're decent...
    Agreed. ...especially the Ollie part.

    Leave a comment:

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