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The Sandy Alderson Thread

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  • Originally posted by LI METS FAN View Post
    Thank you for helping to assemble our NL champion Mets.
    2015 has been amazing.

    A long time coming.

    On to the World Series.
    I think we can all agree "the plan" is working.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by rjsallstars View Post
      I think we can all agree "the plan" is working.
      2 months early...


      "The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!

      Comment


      • Some (most?) of the comments about Alderson in this thread look embarrassingly foolish in retrospect.

        The Mets are in the World Series, and will probably be favored to win it.
        My top 10 players:

        1. Babe Ruth
        2. Barry Bonds
        3. Ty Cobb
        4. Ted Williams
        5. Willie Mays
        6. Alex Rodriguez
        7. Hank Aaron
        8. Honus Wagner
        9. Lou Gehrig
        10. Mickey Mantle

        Comment


        • Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post
          Some (most?) of the comments about Alderson in this thread look embarrassingly foolish in retrospect.

          The Mets are in the World Series, and will probably be favored to win it.
          Your post is blasphemy - Dont you know Alderson is the anti Christ?

          In fact we should all be paying homage to Omar Minaya, Steve Phillips and Frank Cashen today. Hell if you dig deep enough we can all just thank Alexander Cartwright for the fateful day in Hoboken.

          I am not a big fan of Alderson to be honest, mostly because he can be smug and arrogant, but if you read through this thread I have said I believe he was being handcuffed by his boss.

          With all that said - it is ridiculous to not give him credit for the situation the Mets are in.

          Comment


          • If anything Alderson should be looked upon favorably for the Dickey trade alone

            Comment


            • Originally posted by GordonGecko View Post
              If anything Alderson should be looked upon favorably for the Dickey trade alone
              And the Wheeler trade too, current injury issues notwithstanding.
              My top 10 players:

              1. Babe Ruth
              2. Barry Bonds
              3. Ty Cobb
              4. Ted Williams
              5. Willie Mays
              6. Alex Rodriguez
              7. Hank Aaron
              8. Honus Wagner
              9. Lou Gehrig
              10. Mickey Mantle

              Comment


              • Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post
                And the Wheeler trade too, current injury issues notwithstanding.
                Here is the anti Sandy angle on both of those trades......ready...because this is classic:

                Omar signed both Beltran and Dickey which the Mets traded for Wheeler/Noah/dArnaud.......therefore those trades are as much, if not more credited to Omar. That is actually somewhere in this thread.

                Joe Mcdonald was the GM when Neil Allen came up with the Mets in 1979. 4 years later he was traded by the then GM Frank Cashen to the Cardinals to get Keith Hernandez. I have never once heard that Joe Mcdonald was responsible for landing Hernandez.

                The anti Sandy double standard is just bizarre.
                Last edited by Paulypal; 10-22-2015, 12:03 PM.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post
                  And the Wheeler trade too, current injury issues notwithstanding.
                  Alderson was hired with two mandates: kill payroll and assemble a bunch of talent due to mature in 2016 (a year ahead of projected launch of a $3B mall across the street). Not impossible. One third of MLB teams make the post-season and once you're in it you can win it. Just collect as many magic beans as possible and hang onto them. Sacrificing assured talent in the present gets you projected talent with superior ceiling. He hardly made any trades.

                  Win or lose ownership has a RSN with 9 figure positive cash flow so no need to make much effort before the target date. The only thing that spurred the moves at the deadline this season was an enraged fan base and a hostile press. An appeals court ruling the mall was illegal probably also factored into the decision making process.

                  Alderson's assignment was pretty easy. As I said over the past few years I'd be astonished if he blew it. His bad moves have outweighed his good. No time or energy to rehash them yet again. Entering this season Justin Turner, who he non-tendered, had more WAR than all his free agent signings combined. That sums it up succinctly.

                  As I said, a fun part of the NLDS was watching Turner almost destroy the Mets single-handedly. The only reason Alderson is getting this praise now is because another guy he wanted to salary dump (Murph!) has carried the team. Like most of the rest of the talent both were acquired by the previous GM.

                  I know ahead of time some might object to this post but that doesn't make it any less true. So if anyone feels like arguing against my points please stick to the points themselves. Let's not make it personal. Thanks.


                  "The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!

                  Comment


                  • Justin Turner was not a good player with the Mets/Orioles and showed nothing of changing that. He had an OPS of .660 after his age 28 season with the Mets. At the time he left the Mets his WAR was .7 (yes there is a decimal in front of the 7) in his career, and this is the big fish that got away.

                    The Mets releasing him obviously made him put foot to ass and turn himself into a good player - which is good for him, but the Mets getting rid of him was a non move.

                    You keep using this as an example and driving it home because this highlights your opinion of Alderson as a mistake when in actuality at the time it wasnt.

                    Where is the same outrage for trading Josh Thole who at the time of his trade had a 1.4 WAR with the Mets. That must not count because Thole despite being a less talented player than Turner did not need boot to ass to turn him into something. He just wasnt very good.

                    Anything else Alderson did - although he did it in a douche manor - he was instructed to do by his boss or MLB baseball. He had a suck job that wasnt going to win him any fans, but he did what he did.

                    The fact that the bias is so thick is just amazing.

                    Meanwhile the team is about to play in the WS, and this is still raging on.
                    Last edited by Paulypal; 10-22-2015, 12:36 PM.

                    Comment


                    • I disagree with the assignment being easy.
                      Of all MLB expansion teams since 1960 there is only one team with more than 2 pennants. The Mets. Soon to be joined by either the Jays or KC.

                      Easy assignment is a term for other people's work product. Our own work product is always challenging and difficult.

                      Comment


                      • If it weren't for Sandy Alderson, the Mets would have been a 130-win team! ALDERSON SUXXX

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Cowtipper View Post
                          If it weren't for Sandy Alderson, the Mets would have been a 130-win team! ALDERSON SUXXX
                          And if they could get rid of that Boob Collins maybe 135.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by LI METS FAN View Post
                            I disagree with the assignment being easy.
                            Of all MLB expansion teams since 1960 there is only one team with more than 2 pennants. The Mets. Soon to be joined by either the Jays or KC.

                            Easy assignment is a term for other people's work product. Our own work product is always challenging and difficult.
                            Disagree. Alderson's job was to hoard talent and kick the can down the road. Very few trades, very few free agent signings. Mostly stasis. Omar had already done the heavy lifting by finding the talent.

                            Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
                            Justin Turner was not a good player with the Mets/Orioles and showed nothing of changing that. He had an OPS of .660 after his age 28 season with the Mets. At the time he left the Mets his WAR was .7 (yes there is a decimal in front of the 7) in his career, and this is the big fish that got away.

                            The Mets releasing him obviously made him put foot to ass and turn himself into a good player - which is good for him, but the Mets getting rid of him was a non move.

                            You keep using this as an example and driving it home because this highlights your opinion of Alderson as a mistake when in actuality at the time it wasnt.

                            Where is the same outrage for trading Josh Thole who at the time of his trade had a 1.4 WAR with the Mets. That must not count because Thole despite being a less talented player than Turner did not need boot to ass to turn him into something. He just wasnt very good.

                            Anything else Alderson did - although he did it in a douche manor - he was instructed to do by his boss or MLB baseball. He had a suck job that wasnt going to win him any fans, but he did what he did.

                            The fact that the bias is so thick is just amazing.
                            Criticized the Turner non-tender when done. Didn't criticize Thole's inclusion in Dickey deal. I don't bash most moves in hindsight. The ones I focus on are ones I hated at the time.

                            For example I never slammed the Chris Young signing that much because though I didn't expect him to be good, it was unreasonable to expect him to be as bad as he was. Likewise I don't overcredit Sandy for lucking out with the Cespedes signing. Of course Cespedes wasn't his first choice anyway.


                            "The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Mongoose View Post
                              Disagree. Alderson's job was to hoard talent and kick the can down the road. Very few trades, very few free agent signings. Mostly stasis. Omar had already done the heavy lifting by finding the talent.



                              Criticized the Turner non-tender when done. Didn't criticize Thole's inclusion in Dickey deal. I don't bash most moves in hindsight. The ones I focus on are ones I hated at the time.

                              For example I never slammed the Chris Young signing that much because though I didn't expect him to be good, it was unreasonable to expect him to be as bad as he was. Likewise I don't overcredit Sandy for lucking out with the Cespedes signing. Of course Cespedes wasn't his first choice anyway.
                              Yes the heavy lifting by drafting two players he admitted he never saw throw a baseball - Harvey & deGrom sounds excruciating.

                              Cespedes was not his first choice, but the deal never happened for whatever reason that NOBODY knows so it worked out and then the Cespedes move was made.

                              There are many first choice trades that werent made for instance

                              The Cardinals wanted to trade Albert Pujols to the Expos in 2000 - the Expos insisted on Fernando Tatis and Tatis was traded. What an ass the GM of the Cardinals must be for almost trading Albert Pujols instead of Tatis.

                              Omar the lifter of heavy things:
                              1) Traded Heath Bell
                              2) signed a 40 year old injured Moises Alou
                              3) Let their best middle reliever walk away - Chad Bradford
                              4) Resigns a steroid user Mota to 2 year $5m contract in which after the roids were out of his system sported a 5.76 ERA
                              5) Let Darren Oliver leave to the Angels for $1.75M who had an ERA under 3.00 5 out of the next 6 years
                              6) Replaced Bradford with Schoenweiss who promptly sported a 5.03 ERA
                              7) Trade Nady for Ollie
                              8) Then LMAO - resigns Ollie for 3 years $36M
                              9) Signs Luis Castillo for $24 million
                              10) Resigns a 41 year old Moises Alou - 2 years totaled 102 games
                              11) signs an ancient Julio Franco
                              12) Two words............... Jason Bay.
                              13) Signed JJ Putz without a physical only to find out he was injured. - You cant make this $%^% up.
                              14) Last but not least - non Met related - Cliff Lee/Brandon Philips/Grady Sizemore for Bartolo Colon & Tim Drew. I can imagine Shapiro on the other end of the phone laughing his ass off while this one was being consumated.

                              He must be exhausted from spending all the cash - I see what you mean now by heavy lifting. Wilpon's wallet was heavy and he lifted it quite often. He picks things up and puts them down. I use to think the Braves were the Mets biggest rivals....when the whole time THE ENEMY WAS WITHIN.

                              All GM's make mistakes without a doubt, but Omar's get sugarcoated to make a point on this issue and the guy WAS A FLAT OUT IDIOT AS A GM. He had a $140MM payroll with all kinds of stolen money and couldnt get us as far as Alderson/Collins has taken them after taking $60MM off of payroll at one point.
                              Last edited by Paulypal; 10-22-2015, 01:41 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Mongoose View Post
                                Disagree. Alderson's job was to hoard talent and kick the can down the road. Very few trades, very few free agent signings. Mostly stasis. Omar had already done the heavy lifting by finding the talent.



                                Criticized the Turner non-tender when done. Didn't criticize Thole's inclusion in Dickey deal. I don't bash most moves in hindsight. The ones I focus on are ones I hated at the time.

                                For example I never slammed the Chris Young signing that much because though I didn't expect him to be good, it was unreasonable to expect him to be as bad as he was. Likewise I don't overcredit Sandy for lucking out with the Cespedes signing. Of course Cespedes wasn't his first choice anyway.
                                Omar's job was to hoard talent
                                Cespedes was a trade.

                                Comment

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