The Sandy Alderson Thread

[Paulypal]

Pauly, it's hard to "Bring Along" a fundamentally sound player when you trade them for over the hill veterans or wanna be's..Wilpons never brought a player along to that point because they didn't want to play market value.

The 3 teams you list are top of the line. Perhaps Cohen & Co can learn a few things. I seriously doubt the Bug is the man to rebuild the Mets to that level.

It is more than just trades -- they dont have the infrastructure to develop players. Even if they didnt trade whoever they traded the dont develop players.

[brooklynboy]

Although I think the dominating pitching theory is vastly overrated, and what great hitter have they brought through the system? I fully understand about the other aspects of the Met "upbringing".

Teams that develop players well such as the Cardinals/Tampa/Dodgers have a system that they support in developing these players. The Mets do not develop players to the level of other organizations. The fundamentals are not driven home to the point where they are a reflex instead of mechanical movement.

We hear the term the "Cardinal Way" which means/meant a fundamentally sound player. The Mets are void of that player, and not to the fault of the player but the organization.

What player have the Mets brought up that had it all? Physical skills and the baseball IQ that makes you think "ok we got something here". Conforto maybe the closest ....maybe, but that has taken 5 years to get to even this point. Gimenez may have that but we will see.

Pauly, it's hard to "Bring Along" a fundamentally sound player when you trade them for over the hill veterans or wanna be's..Wilpons never brought a player along to that point because they didn't want to play market value.

The 3 teams you list are top of the line. Perhaps Cohen & Co can learn a few things. I seriously doubt the Bug is the man to rebuild the Mets to that level.

[Paulypal]

And I write that as someone who actually likes Alderson coming back to head up the Mets. I truly think his hands (and mouth) were largely tied by the Wilpons in his first tenure here.

He took many veiled shots at that; IMO, you could tell some of things he said (including that "defense... is a nice-to-have" line that agitated me at that STH Hot Stove) were kind of forced out of him, in the way that he often grimaced, looked down and to the side, and paused between words to make sure he didn't say something he couldn't say by accident. (I wouldn't be surprised if he was repeating a quote from Jeff Wilpon word-for-word with that line.)

I am just really tired of seeing the Mets feature dominating pitchers and the occasional great hitter, the "awesome stuff" in pro ball that I could not do, but fail at the little things that rack up with ground balls not reached, fly balls not run down, throws to the wrong base or missing the cutoff man, bad baserunning, etc., etc.

Although I think the dominating pitching theory is vastly overrated, and what great hitter have they brought through the system? I fully understand about the other aspects of the Met "upbringing".

Teams that develop players well such as the Cardinals/Tampa/Dodgers have a system that they support in developing these players. The Mets do not develop players to the level of other organizations. The fundamentals are not driven home to the point where they are a reflex instead of mechanical movement.

We hear the term the "Cardinal Way" which means/meant a fundamentally sound player. The Mets are void of that player, and not to the fault of the player but the organization.

What player have the Mets brought up that had it all? Physical skills and the baseball IQ that makes you think "ok we got something here". Conforto maybe the closest ....maybe, but that has taken 5 years to get to even this point. Gimenez may have that but we will see.

[robardin]

A little torn on the idea. I think Alderson can be good with a budget of competitive proportions, but seems like going backwards to me at the same time. Maybe Cohen developed a relationship with Alderson while he was a minority owner.

Note: Alderson is not coming back as the GM, but as President. So he will be hiring a new GM, or retaining or reassigning "Brody", as one of his moves... But more importantly to me, he will definitely construct a real analytics team (not just hiring "an intern" when Alderson requested they beef up the smallest analytics staff in MLB), and hopefully, invest not just in scouting but in player development throughout the minors in a way the team clearly has not been doing in terms of the fundamentals.

Because when you see the players the Oakland A's system has developed in his time(s) there, defense is clearly not a "nice to have". Or at least, if it is, they are able to produce it instead of somehow suppressing it.

[robardin]

And I write that as someone who actually likes Alderson coming back to head up the Mets. I truly think his hands (and mouth) were largely tied by the Wilpons in his first tenure here.

He took many veiled shots at that; IMO, you could tell some of things he said (including that "defense... is a nice-to-have" line that agitated me at that STH Hot Stove) were kind of forced out of him, in the way that he often grimaced, looked down and to the side, and paused between words to make sure he didn't say something he couldn't say by accident. (I wouldn't be surprised if he was repeating a quote from Jeff Wilpon word-for-word with that line.)

I am just really tired of seeing the Mets feature dominating pitchers and the occasional great hitter, the "awesome stuff" in pro ball that I could not do, but fail at the little things that rack up with ground balls not reached, fly balls not run down, throws to the wrong base or missing the cutoff man, bad baserunning, etc., etc.

[robardin]

The Athletic had a Tim Britton piece analyzing what went wrong for the 2020 Mets, and aside from the obvious - lack of health and production from the SP, unusual short-term (3+ week) discrepancy in offense with bases empty vs. RISP that was evening out over time but in a 60 game season really hurt - he called out the ongoing lack of defense and baserunning skills that have been there "since Sandy Alderson's regime as General Manager".

This rang very true to me, and was a big annoyance to me even back then. I was physically present at a Hot Stove Event with STHs when Alderson called defense "a nice to have" when assessing players for draft or trade, which upset me to hear at the time. I only hope that was an implied shot at the financial constraints put on him by the Wilpons and that he simply felt that investing in offense was the most "cost-effective" way to a "90 wins" mandate.

Just read this excerpt:

For too long in Queens, defense and baserunning have been viewed as "the little things." New York ranked 26th in the majors in defensive runs saved, its fielders costing its pitchers 22 runs in just 60 games. It’s the fourth consecutive season the Mets have been in the bottom five of the league in defensive runs saved. From 2017-20, they’ve cost themselves 246 runs with their defense - the worst mark in baseball. That roughly translates to 24.5 wins. ...

New York’s defense is so bad because the team de-emphasized it for so long, starting with Sandy Alderson’s regime as general manager. The Mets have made decision after decision to go with offense over the last several years. They haven’t stuck with a true center fielder since the trade for Yoenis Céspedes in 2015. They chose offense with Wilson Ramos behind the plate. They’ve tried to get by with work-in-progress left fielders like J.D. Davis and Dominic Smith the last two years.

The Mets were also a brutal baserunning team this season, constantly running into outs while rarely earning the reward of that aggressiveness. They were just 20 for 30 in stolen bases, a low frequency combining with a low success rate, and that doesn’t even count the five times they were picked off. (Amed Rosario getting picked off to end a game while he had no intention of stealing summed this up pretty well. Rosario, the fastest guy on the team for most of the season, didn’t attempt a proper steal all season.)

Even removing steals from the equation, the Mets made 22 outs on the bases - fifth most in baseball. Rojas became a broken record talking about plays that "can’t happen" and the way the team has to "clean it up."

A lot of teams live with outs on the bases because of the message it sends to the opponent, and because such aggressiveness often leads to tangible results down the line. This was not the case with the Mets, who ranked last in the majors in taking the extra base - in advancing two bases on a single and three on a double.

Just snagging Realmuto and Bauer as FAs isn't going to change that single (or double) handedly...!

This is why I think it'll take a few years for a change in regime - and hopefully, a change in tenor from Alderson - with a new philosophy for player development and roster construction to filter through to the field, to really make this team fun to watch.

Sure, Realmuto + Bauer on top of what the team has got now could make it a winning team, by covering the flaws by further accentuating the strengths (restoring SP strength and production/defense from catcher), but what has made watching the Mets so very exhausting in the past decade has been the repeated and sustained lack of "fundies" on display in defense and baserunning.

Not just "not good" at those areas, but as the stats indicate, actually among or actually being the worst in MLB, and year over year!

Just being league average in those areas shouldn't be out of reach - and if it was random, over a period of ten years it should average out to, well, to average. It's as if the organization has been intentionally picking guys who were bad in "the little areas" because it saved on contract money, or organizational effort. (Hmmm. Ya think?)

[Paulypal]

Steve Cohen would be CEO and chairman in the new Mets setup with Alderson reporting to him. Cohen needs 22 of the other 29 owners to become Mets owner. At this point, only 1 or 2 are known to lean against.

https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status...97522166726658

Good news there.

[Blue387]

Steve Cohen would be CEO and chairman in the new Mets setup with Alderson reporting to him. Cohen needs 22 of the other 29 owners to become Mets owner. At this point, only 1 or 2 are known to lean against.

https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status...97522166726658

[Paulypal]

Alderson's constant lying, and covering for the thieving villains, as GM, is a bad memory. I'd like to keep it in the past. It's a big world. Out of 7 billion humans on this planet, there have to be some, besides Alderson, who could run the team properly.

Watching another one of his press conferences would give me PTSD flashbacks. The sight and sound of him agitate me. Alderson popping up again, like a bad penny, would immediately drain a lot of the goodwill SAC is bringing.

All I'll say about retaining any current personnel is, SAC will need to bring a big broom. Van Wagenen was Jeff's public face, and serves no legitimate purpose in a real ML front office. He must go. Hiring a new GM, but retaining a manager or coaches is a clear signal the new GM isn't really in charge. The reason you saw that a lot in Flushing was because the Wilpons were the real GM, and everyone else was shuffled in and out to take the blame.

I get it. Alderson coming back may do more harm than good.

To reiterate.......... BIG broom.

[Mongoose]

A little torn on the idea. I think Alderson can be good with a budget of competitive proportions, but seems like going backwards to me at the same time. Maybe Cohen developed a relationship with Alderson while he was a minority owner.

I think it is imperative that Joey Van Slick be shown the door, and Rojas right behind him. I honestly dont care what and who players like. This is a results oriented business - winning being the desired result. Any manager that benches 3 of his better players simply because a lefty is pitching needs to go. Send Rojas back down to get some more seasoning maybe but managing at the MLB level is not for him just yet.

Alderson's constant lying, and covering for the thieving villains, as GM, is a bad memory. I'd like to keep it in the past. It's a big world. Out of 7 billion humans on this planet, there have to be some, besides Alderson, who could run the team properly.

Watching another one of his press conferences would give me PTSD flashbacks. The sight and sound of him agitate me. Alderson popping up again, like a bad penny, would immediately drain a lot of the goodwill SAC is bringing.

All I'll say about retaining any current personnel is, SAC will need to bring a big broom. Van Wagenen was Jeff's public face, and serves no legitimate purpose in a real ML front office. He must go. Hiring a new GM, but retaining a manager or coaches is a clear signal the new GM isn't really in charge. The reason you saw that a lot in Flushing was because the Wilpons were the real GM, and everyone else was shuffled in and out to take the blame.

[Paulypal]

Alderson with actual money to spend might not be a bad thing.

A little torn on the idea. I think Alderson can be good with a budget of competitive proportions, but seems like going backwards to me at the same time. Maybe Cohen developed a relationship with Alderson while he was a minority owner.

I think it is imperative that Joey Van Slick be shown the door, and Rojas right behind him. I honestly dont care what and who players like. This is a results oriented business - winning being the desired result. Any manager that benches 3 of his better players simply because a lefty is pitching needs to go. Send Rojas back down to get some more seasoning maybe but managing at the MLB level is not for him just yet.

[jjpm74]

I don't remember where I read it but if the sale goes thru, Cohen has a plan for a larger front office staff, Operations staff and Scouting staff. I can see Alderson's knowledge of what has been going on this past decade, combined with keeping Brodie and new hires also.

Alderson with actual money to spend might not be a bad thing.

[LI METS FAN]

Source: Sandy Alderson likely to return to Mets as part of new ownership group
It is unknown what Alderson's role is, what this means for Van Wagenen

https://sny.tv/articles/source-sandy...wnership-group

I don't remember where I read it but if the sale goes thru, Cohen has a plan for a larger front office staff, Operations staff and Scouting staff. I can see Alderson's knowledge of what has been going on this past decade, combined with keeping Brodie and new hires also.

[Blue387]

Source: Sandy Alderson likely to return to Mets as part of new ownership group
It is unknown what Alderson's role is, what this means for Van Wagenen

https://sny.tv/articles/source-sandy...wnership-group

[Mongoose]

Fully agree. GM's are tough to judge solely on their tenure in the short term.

The guy's trades and non-tenders were catastrophic. Those are easy to judge. The only mitigating factor is the Jeff factor, which we can't quantify right now.

His early round picks seem to have worked out. I'll give him, but more so Paul DePodesta credit for that. Now if he could only get the Browns to start winning, I'm sure he'd be happy.