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  • Why Are the Mets Indifferent to Ther Own History?



    http://voices.yahoo.com/why-mets-ind...04.html?cat=14
    Last edited by JPS; 03-14-2012, 10:39 PM.

  • #2
    Because we have the worst owner in the National League...

    The Astros, the damn ASTROS are making a bigger deal of their 5oth than the Mets are...at least they're acknowledging it a bit!

    We're the best, the most notable "expansion" team in history...a NY team...

    And it's come to this.

    I hate the Wilpons...GLAD the burden of proof in their case has been ruled to be on THEM--

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/15/sp...ore-fraud.html

    If we have one win to root for, it's for the legal team opposing Wilpon! Take him down, and force him to sell the damn team!
    "Ya Gotta Believe!" -Tug McGraw ... "How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life." -James T. Kirk ... "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -Sherlock Holmes ... "It is out of the deepest depth that the highest must come to its height." -Friedrich Nietzsche ... "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet

    Comment


    • #3
      um er why now? Not that it isn't true, but it must be a slow news day. Next up newsflash the sky really isn't blue.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by PVNICK View Post
        um er why now? Not that it isn't true, but it must be a slow news day. Next up newsflash the sky really isn't blue.
        It really isnt blue.
        unknown brooklyn cabbie " how are the brooks doin"
        unknown fan "good they got three men on base"
        unknown brooklyn cabbie "which one?"

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by theAmazingMet View Post
          It really isnt blue.
          I thought that was clear from my post. I guess sarcasm does not traslate that well or I write obtusely.

          Comment


          • #6
            Why are they indifferent?

            A couple of reasons:

            1) Lets be honest they dont have a great history. Two WS wins in 50 years is just nothing to brag about. We can love them all we want but lets face it they are bacially a losing organization with a couple of bright moments.

            Now for #2 and the bigger reason:


            2) The owner takes no pride in owning the Mets at all. The Mets mean nothing to him....let me rephrase...the Orange part of the Mets mean nothing. He loves the blue part because he really wants to own the Dodgers. It was an embarassment when The Morgue opened up in 2009 and it full of Dodger stuff. I still cant figure out why their is a Jackie Robinson rotunda. Why isnt their a Tom Seaver rotunda.....geez I would take an Ed Kranepool rotunda.

            Its an utter emabarassment that a player that had nothing to do with Mets is honored in a Met park. Yes I know Robinsons significance, and I am not downplaying his place in history, but cmon. Why isnt their a Jonas Salk Rotunda? He never played for the Mets and had a big role in human history.

            Unfortunately the 50th anniversary is taking place with this low-life criminal as the owner. We as fans are going to look back at this point time as one of the - maybe THEE - worst time in Met history.

            Expecting Wilpon to celebrate anything Mets was like asking Muammar Gaddafi to celebrate Chanukah.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
              Why are they indifferent?

              A couple of reasons:

              1) Lets be honest they dont have a great history. Two WS wins in 50 years is just nothing to brag about. We can love them all we want but lets face it they are bacially a losing organization with a couple of bright moments.

              Now for #2 and the bigger reason:


              2) The owner takes no pride in owning the Mets at all. The Mets mean nothing to him....let me rephrase...the Orange part of the Mets mean nothing. He loves the blue part because he really wants to own the Dodgers. It was an embarassment when The Morgue opened up in 2009 and it full of Dodger stuff. I still cant figure out why their is a Jackie Robinson rotunda. Why isnt their a Tom Seaver rotunda.....geez I would take an Ed Kranepool rotunda.

              Its an utter emabarassment that a player that had nothing to do with Mets is honored in a Met park. Yes I know Robinsons significance, and I am not downplaying his place in history, but cmon. Why isnt their a Jonas Salk Rotunda? He never played for the Mets and had a big role in human history.

              Unfortunately the 50th anniversary is taking place with this low-life criminal as the owner. We as fans are going to look back at this point time as one of the - maybe THEE - worst time in Met history.

              Expecting Wilpon to celebrate anything Mets was like asking Muammar Gaddafi to celebrate Chanukah.
              Point #1 I disagree with...

              The Mets aren't the Yankees or Red Sox or Dodgers or anything, but I think they have a pretty good history, especially as an expansion team; again, they're easily the most important of the expansion teams, the one that's had the most impact on baseball...only really the Blue Jays or so can rival that a bit, and that's partially due to their taking MLB into Canada (I know the Expos came first, but they're gone now, so can't list them, plus, Canada+2 WS titles=Blue Jays win out over them even if they were still "alive.)

              In terms of their overall record...yes, overall, losers...

              But I guess they've had more significance and prominence and more memorable games and players and moments than many other teams, and all other expansion teams.

              They only have 2 WS titles, but BOTH are considered two of MLB's most memorable, the Miracle Mets in '69 and the brilliant 1986 team and all their legendary games in the postseason...

              4 Pennants--those 2 WS titles, and then, they DID come close to winning another, taking the A's to 7 games in 1973, and 2000 was a Subway Series...they lost quickly, but hey, it's one more pennant adding up to more than other expansion teams have...

              You can name Mets players easier and deeper down the line than with most other expansion teams--after Ken Griffey Jr., Jay Buhner, Randy Johnson, Edgar Martinez, and Ichiro, most baseball fans don't know many Mariners off the top of their heads...

              But everyone's heard of:
              Tom Seaver
              Gil Hodges
              Casey Stengel (yeah, he's remembered mainly as a Yankee, but we retired his #, so it seems fair to count him)
              Gary Carter
              Keith Hernandez
              Darryl Strawberry
              Dwight Gooden
              Mookie Wilson (though in fairness, again, maybe an * here, for as much as I love Mookie, most probaby know him just because of the Buckner Call by Vin Scully)
              Mike Piazza
              Jose Reyes
              Carlos Beltran
              David Wright

              And so on...you can keep going, because, while the Mets have had some rough, rough patches, and an overall losing record...when they're good, they make it MEMORABLE, they make an IMPACT on MLB history.

              Look at all the great moments in Mets history, or even just the memorable moments, that fans would be able to recall...

              The innagural 1962 season, and just how lovable bad they were, Charlie Brown's team incarnate...
              The aforementioned 1969 campaign and win in Shea Stadium...
              The 1973 pennant...
              The 1984 season with Dwight Gooden...
              Game 6 of first the NLCS, then the World Series in 1986, both classics that will be long remembered...
              Winning the 1986 WS...
              The 1988 NLCS (albeit for sad reasons for Mets fans)...
              The 1999 series with the Braves and The Grand Single...
              The Subway Series with the Yankees in 2000...
              Piazza's 9/11 HR in 2001...
              The 2006 regular season, and sending the most amount of All-Stars of any team...
              Endy's Catch in Game 7...and Game 7 itself (again, though, sad for Mets fans)...

              The Mets have more moments spring to mind for the average baseball fan than any other expansion team...

              And not to mention in comparison to some Original 16 teams (like, say, the Cleveland Indians--good players, but want to bet a regular MLB fan, not of either Mets or Indians affiliation, would be able to name more memorable Mets players and teams than he could do for the Indians?)

              So, I wouldn't say the Mets have had a bad history at all...I know what you mean, Pauly, with the record, but still--

              4 pennants, 2 WS titles, and a host of memorable moments, legendary games, and some of the most memorable names in baseball for the 1960s, 1980s, late 1990s-early 2000s, and into 2012 (well, to be fair, until about 2009, anyway.)

              The Mets aren't a first-tier franchise, not in the top 10...

              But they're easily in the Top 20...which is pretty good, considering all the teams you'd have to put in front of them, the Crown Jewel Six, the A's and their many titles...the Braves and Phillies...the Orioles and Reds and so on...

              The Mets are about on par with the Reds and Orioles prestige-wise, I'd say, give or take...or at least somewhere between the Orioles and the Mariners.
              "Ya Gotta Believe!" -Tug McGraw ... "How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life." -James T. Kirk ... "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -Sherlock Holmes ... "It is out of the deepest depth that the highest must come to its height." -Friedrich Nietzsche ... "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet

              Comment


              • #8
                Point #2 is spot on. (Short response, but that's what you get when you're right.)
                "Ya Gotta Believe!" -Tug McGraw ... "How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life." -James T. Kirk ... "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -Sherlock Holmes ... "It is out of the deepest depth that the highest must come to its height." -Friedrich Nietzsche ... "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
                  2) The owner takes no pride in owning the Mets at all. The Mets mean nothing to him....let me rephrase...the Orange part of the Mets mean nothing. He loves the blue part because he really wants to own the Dodgers. It was an embarassment when The Morgue opened up in 2009 and it full of Dodger stuff. I still cant figure out why their is a Jackie Robinson rotunda. Why isnt their a Tom Seaver rotunda.....geez I would take an Ed Kranepool rotunda.

                  Its an utter emabarassment that a player that had nothing to do with Mets is honored in a Met park. Yes I know Robinsons significance, and I am not downplaying his place in history, but cmon. Why isnt their a Jonas Salk Rotunda? He never played for the Mets and had a big role in human history.
                  Here we part company - I admire the Robinson Rotunda quite a bit and think it's one thing the Wilpons got 100% right. Simply put, Jackie Robinson's the most significant National League player in New York history, and one of the most important figures in the history of sport in this town, and nationally. I'm thrilled it's there and my kids can read those words - Jackie Robinson is my son's personal hero.

                  Now, I'd quibble with two design elements - the video screens are unnecessary and actually detract from the Robinson words and symbolism. They're pretty tacky. And that big 42 - which seemed like a good idea at the time - has quite frankly not worn well. It's also unnecessary.

                  BTW, cheering the Robinson Rotunda does not mean I thought there was enough Mets heritage in the park at first - there wasn't! Even now, they could do a bit more.
                  Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Strawman View Post
                    Here we part company - I admire the Robinson Rotunda quite a bit and think it's one thing the Wilpons got 100% right. Simply put, Jackie Robinson's the most significant National League player in New York history, and one of the most important figures in the history of sport in this town, and nationally. I'm thrilled it's there and my kids can read those words - Jackie Robinson is my son's personal hero.

                    Now, I'd quibble with two design elements - the video screens are unnecessary and actually detract from the Robinson words and symbolism. They're pretty tacky. And that big 42 - which seemed like a good idea at the time - has quite frankly not worn well. It's also unnecessary.

                    BTW, cheering the Robinson Rotunda does not mean I thought there was enough Mets heritage in the park at first - there wasn't! Even now, they could do a bit more.
                    See i dissagree with you. Robinson was/is an important person in baseball history, but not to the Mets. He had nothing to do with the team and its history. I took a bunch of non-Mets fans (Soxs and Yankee fans) to Citi Field this year and they had the "WTF" look on them in the rotunda. Let the Dodgers honor him and if the Mets want to Honor him as well, let them but not a whole rotunda. The rotunda in my mind should honor and be named after William Shea or Joan Payson, two important people in Mets history.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Shea Knight View Post
                      Point #1 I disagree with...

                      The Mets aren't the Yankees or Red Sox or Dodgers or anything, but I think they have a pretty good history, especially as an expansion team; again, they're easily the most important of the expansion teams, the one that's had the most impact on baseball...only really the Blue Jays or so can rival that a bit, and that's partially due to their taking MLB into Canada (I know the Expos came first, but they're gone now, so can't list them, plus, Canada+2 WS titles=Blue Jays win out over them even if they were still "alive.)

                      In terms of their overall record...yes, overall, losers...

                      But I guess they've had more significance and prominence and more memorable games and players and moments than many other teams, and all other expansion teams.

                      They only have 2 WS titles, but BOTH are considered two of MLB's most memorable, the Miracle Mets in '69 and the brilliant 1986 team and all their legendary games in the postseason...

                      4 Pennants--those 2 WS titles, and then, they DID come close to winning another, taking the A's to 7 games in 1973, and 2000 was a Subway Series...they lost quickly, but hey, it's one more pennant adding up to more than other expansion teams have...

                      You can name Mets players easier and deeper down the line than with most other expansion teams--after Ken Griffey Jr., Jay Buhner, Randy Johnson, Edgar Martinez, and Ichiro, most baseball fans don't know many Mariners off the top of their heads...

                      But everyone's heard of:
                      Tom Seaver
                      Gil Hodges
                      Casey Stengel (yeah, he's remembered mainly as a Yankee, but we retired his #, so it seems fair to count him)
                      Gary Carter
                      Keith Hernandez
                      Darryl Strawberry
                      Dwight Gooden
                      Mookie Wilson (though in fairness, again, maybe an * here, for as much as I love Mookie, most probaby know him just because of the Buckner Call by Vin Scully)
                      Mike Piazza
                      Jose Reyes
                      Carlos Beltran
                      David Wright

                      And so on...you can keep going, because, while the Mets have had some rough, rough patches, and an overall losing record...when they're good, they make it MEMORABLE, they make an IMPACT on MLB history.

                      Look at all the great moments in Mets history, or even just the memorable moments, that fans would be able to recall...

                      The innagural 1962 season, and just how lovable bad they were, Charlie Brown's team incarnate...
                      The aforementioned 1969 campaign and win in Shea Stadium...
                      The 1973 pennant...
                      The 1984 season with Dwight Gooden...
                      Game 6 of first the NLCS, then the World Series in 1986, both classics that will be long remembered...
                      Winning the 1986 WS...
                      The 1988 NLCS (albeit for sad reasons for Mets fans)...
                      The 1999 series with the Braves and The Grand Single...
                      The Subway Series with the Yankees in 2000...
                      Piazza's 9/11 HR in 2001...
                      The 2006 regular season, and sending the most amount of All-Stars of any team...
                      Endy's Catch in Game 7...and Game 7 itself (again, though, sad for Mets fans)...

                      The Mets have more moments spring to mind for the average baseball fan than any other expansion team...

                      And not to mention in comparison to some Original 16 teams (like, say, the Cleveland Indians--good players, but want to bet a regular MLB fan, not of either Mets or Indians affiliation, would be able to name more memorable Mets players and teams than he could do for the Indians?)

                      So, I wouldn't say the Mets have had a bad history at all...I know what you mean, Pauly, with the record, but still--

                      4 pennants, 2 WS titles, and a host of memorable moments, legendary games, and some of the most memorable names in baseball for the 1960s, 1980s, late 1990s-early 2000s, and into 2012 (well, to be fair, until about 2009, anyway.)

                      The Mets aren't a first-tier franchise, not in the top 10...

                      But they're easily in the Top 20...which is pretty good, considering all the teams you'd have to put in front of them, the Crown Jewel Six, the A's and their many titles...the Braves and Phillies...the Orioles and Reds and so on...

                      The Mets are about on par with the Reds and Orioles prestige-wise, I'd say, give or take...or at least somewhere between the Orioles and the Mariners.
                      So in 50 years you named 10 players. Some of which were better with other teams (Hernandez, Carter, Piazza, Beltran), two of which were known for wasting their talent (Gooden, Strawberry), Mookie Wilson? One that is no longer a Met (Reyes), and one that has been destroyed (Wright)...so we are left with Seaver....who was traded. Terrific history. I am so proud.

                      I said the team had some bright spots. Didnt I? They are still a losing organization. Slice it how you like. So they average a pennant every 12.50 years.......run of the mill I would say....wouldnt you? Nothing special here.....besides the fact that I root for them, but lets be honest.

                      Its been 50 years, can you stop hiding behind "expansion team". If thats the tact you want to take then I can say the Marlins have as many WS in 30 less years.
                      Last edited by Paulypal; 03-16-2012, 07:44 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Shea Knight View Post
                        Point #1 I disagree with...

                        The Mets aren't the Yankees or Red Sox or Dodgers or anything, but I think they have a pretty good history, especially as an expansion team; again, they're easily the most important of the expansion teams, the one that's had the most impact on baseball...only really the Blue Jays or so can rival that a bit, and that's partially due to their taking MLB into Canada (I know the Expos came first, but they're gone now, so can't list them, plus, Canada+2 WS titles=Blue Jays win out over them even if they were still "alive.)

                        In terms of their overall record...yes, overall, losers...

                        But I guess they've had more significance and prominence and more memorable games and players and moments than many other teams, and all other expansion teams.

                        They only have 2 WS titles, but BOTH are considered two of MLB's most memorable, the Miracle Mets in '69 and the brilliant 1986 team and all their legendary games in the postseason...

                        4 Pennants--those 2 WS titles, and then, they DID come close to winning another, taking the A's to 7 games in 1973, and 2000 was a Subway Series...they lost quickly, but hey, it's one more pennant adding up to more than other expansion teams have...

                        You can name Mets players easier and deeper down the line than with most other expansion teams--after Ken Griffey Jr., Jay Buhner, Randy Johnson, Edgar Martinez, and Ichiro, most baseball fans don't know many Mariners off the top of their heads...

                        But everyone's heard of:
                        Tom Seaver
                        Gil Hodges
                        Casey Stengel (yeah, he's remembered mainly as a Yankee, but we retired his #, so it seems fair to count him)
                        Gary Carter
                        Keith Hernandez
                        Darryl Strawberry
                        Dwight Gooden
                        Mookie Wilson (though in fairness, again, maybe an * here, for as much as I love Mookie, most probaby know him just because of the Buckner Call by Vin Scully)
                        Mike Piazza
                        Jose Reyes
                        Carlos Beltran
                        David Wright

                        And so on...you can keep going, because, while the Mets have had some rough, rough patches, and an overall losing record...when they're good, they make it MEMORABLE, they make an IMPACT on MLB history.

                        Look at all the great moments in Mets history, or even just the memorable moments, that fans would be able to recall...

                        The innagural 1962 season, and just how lovable bad they were, Charlie Brown's team incarnate...
                        The aforementioned 1969 campaign and win in Shea Stadium...
                        The 1973 pennant...
                        The 1984 season with Dwight Gooden...
                        Game 6 of first the NLCS, then the World Series in 1986, both classics that will be long remembered...
                        Winning the 1986 WS...
                        The 1988 NLCS (albeit for sad reasons for Mets fans)...
                        The 1999 series with the Braves and The Grand Single...
                        The Subway Series with the Yankees in 2000...
                        Piazza's 9/11 HR in 2001...
                        The 2006 regular season, and sending the most amount of All-Stars of any team...
                        Endy's Catch in Game 7...and Game 7 itself (again, though, sad for Mets fans)...

                        The Mets have more moments spring to mind for the average baseball fan than any other expansion team...

                        And not to mention in comparison to some Original 16 teams (like, say, the Cleveland Indians--good players, but want to bet a regular MLB fan, not of either Mets or Indians affiliation, would be able to name more memorable Mets players and teams than he could do for the Indians?)

                        So, I wouldn't say the Mets have had a bad history at all...I know what you mean, Pauly, with the record, but still--

                        4 pennants, 2 WS titles, and a host of memorable moments, legendary games, and some of the most memorable names in baseball for the 1960s, 1980s, late 1990s-early 2000s, and into 2012 (well, to be fair, until about 2009, anyway.)

                        The Mets aren't a first-tier franchise, not in the top 10...

                        But they're easily in the Top 20...which is pretty good, considering all the teams you'd have to put in front of them, the Crown Jewel Six, the A's and their many titles...the Braves and Phillies...the Orioles and Reds and so on...

                        The Mets are about on par with the Reds and Orioles prestige-wise, I'd say, give or take...or at least somewhere between the Orioles and the Mariners.
                        Something you need to consider (or I do) is that you have seen the Mets from the late 90's until now. During that period they havent been nearly as bad as the Mets I have seen. I have seen the Mets from 77-1983. You havent lived through a 7 season period like that. YOUR ABOUT TO, then talk to me about Met history, and Endy Chavez' catch - a game in which they still lost by the way.

                        Top 20? Ok...so now you just called them mediocre at best. I agree.

                        Now lets consider their fan base potential. When they were good they out drew the Yankees. So the fans are their waiting, but the organization is not one that delivers over a period of time. Considering its a NY Franchise with a huge fan base you cant compare them to other "expansion" teams.

                        This team is by far an under achieving organization. Yes some bright spots, but they are a losing organization.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Lets face it, they are an embarrassment to New York sports fans. The only metro area team with a worse history of winning is the Nets. Thats really freakin sad.
                          unknown brooklyn cabbie " how are the brooks doin"
                          unknown fan "good they got three men on base"
                          unknown brooklyn cabbie "which one?"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by theAmazingMet View Post
                            Lets face it, they are an embarrassment to New York sports fans. The only metro area team with a worse history of winning is the Nets. Thats really freakin sad.

                            But what about Mookie?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Strawman View Post
                              ...I admire the Robinson Rotunda quite a bit and think it's one thing the Wilpons got 100% right. Simply put, Jackie Robinson's the most significant National League player in New York history, and one of the most important figures in the history of sport in this town, and nationally. I'm thrilled it's there and my kids can read those words - Jackie Robinson is my son's personal hero.

                              Now, I'd quibble with two design elements - the video screens are unnecessary and actually detract from the Robinson words and symbolism. They're pretty tacky. And that big 42 - which seemed like a good idea at the time - has quite frankly not worn well. It's also unnecessary.
                              I too think the RR is appropriate for a New York National League ballpark. No, he didn't play for the Mets, and yes, the Wilpons would rather own the Brooklyn Dodgers than the New York Mets, but I think all MLB teams should honor Robinson in some way, other than having his number dictatorially retired by all teams. And, imo, no place is more appropriate than in a New York National League ballpark.

                              And I dunno, I kinda like the big 4-2. My dad does, too.

                              090923_DAD_CitiField_A42 - resized.jpg
                              Put it in the books.

                              Comment

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