It's Early Yet, But...

[Shea Knight]

...What do you think of the Mets vs. the Marlins right now?

For all their star-power, the Marlins seem to be fizzling, and for all their everyman-ness (with the exception of Wright--congrats on #735!--and a couple others) of their players, the Mets are, well, they're not by any stretch contenders, but they have looked far better than the Fish.

Thoughts?

(Bonus points for a Tejada/Reyes perspective.)

[Strawman]

...What do you think of the Mets vs. the Marlins right now?

For all their star-power, the Marlins seem to be fizzling, and for all their everyman-ness (with the exception of Wright--congrats on #735!--and a couple others) of their players, the Mets are, well, they're not by any stretch contenders, but they have looked far better than the Fish.

Thoughts?

(Bonus points for a Tejada/Reyes perspective.)

Well, I'll take Tejada vs. Reyes.

1. Tejada won't be in the major leagues in five years.

2. Decent chance that by then, Reyes will have around 2200 hits and 1200 runs at age 33 and have a shot at 3,000 hits and 2,000 runs if he plays to 40, while also making a run at the top 10 all-time MLB stolen base leaders - oh, and he'll be approaching the Top 10 all-time in every offensive category for shortstops...in baseball history. He's a very rare player.

That said, I do enjoy seeing some of the prospects play and the young team in general. I think the Fish will rebound: they're a lot like the Angels - deep talent, will take some time to get it all going.

[Ralf]

The biggest thing I notice from the Marlins is lack of leadership. They have no veteran presence on that team and Reyes is not the guy who can handle that role. If I were them, I would be looking to trade Hanley and try to get a couple solid veteran pieces that have had success. Something along the lines of what Cashen did with the young Mets in the early 80's.

As for Reyes/Tejada, its a no-brainer. The stats don't lie. Tejada has outperformed him to this point, both with the bat and in the field, at a fraction of the cost.

[Shea Knight]

@Strawman:

I disagree with regards to Tejada--Reyes is obviously better, if he continues at this pace--a tremendously-big "IF" admittedly, before anyone accuses me or jumping the gun here--he might have a shot at the Hall someday 20 or 30 years down the line, but Tejada's been decent enough...it's not fair to ask him to replace Reyes anymore than it would be to ask...whoever it was the Yankees had at SS for a couple games last year--forget his name, #6 in your scorecards, I think, #0 in my memory, sorry, just can't recall him, for me, Jeter is THE Yankee SS, w/ Rizzuto as an all-time backup--to replace Jeter when Jeter finally hangs it up.

Jeter and Reyes are non-replaceable, special players.

Tejada might "just" be a decent SS...but I'll take that for now over a bad SS, and he's young, so I could see him getting better and being a "good" SS, probably never even close to Reyes, but still, a decent one with a good glove, speed, and a decent average.

@Ralf:

I agree, I could definitely see Hanley going.

[Strawman]

@Strawman:

I disagree with regards to Tejada--Reyes is obviously better, if he continues at this pace--a tremendously-big "IF" admittedly, before anyone accuses me or jumping the gun here--he might have a shot at the Hall someday 20 or 30 years down the line, but Tejada's been decent enough...it's not fair to ask him to replace Reyes anymore than it would be to ask...whoever it was the Yankees had at SS for a couple games last year--forget his name, #6 in your scorecards, I think, #0 in my memory, sorry, just can't recall him, for me, Jeter is THE Yankee SS, w/ Rizzuto as an all-time backup--to replace Jeter when Jeter finally hangs it up.

Jeter and Reyes are non-replaceable, special players.

Tejada might "just" be a decent SS...but I'll take that for now over a bad SS, and he's young, so I could see him getting better and being a "good" SS, probably never even close to Reyes, but still, a decent one with a good glove, speed, and a decent average.

@Ralf:

I agree, I could definitely see Hanley going.

Yeah he might be decent - don't mean to throw that possibility out. Of course he's not the game-changer all-franchise type. He's steady, ok range, and has an accurate if not powerful arm. His speed is lacking, so he'll need to get his hits and get those walks. Occasional pop too. I don't like him leading off - asking too much.

[Paulypal]

...What do you think of the Mets vs. the Marlins right now?

For all their star-power, the Marlins seem to be fizzling, and for all their everyman-ness (with the exception of Wright--congrats on #735!--and a couple others) of their players, the Mets are, well, they're not by any stretch contenders, but they have looked far better than the Fish.

Thoughts?

(Bonus points for a Tejada/Reyes perspective.)

You said it yourself "Its Early".

The Marlins will get better -- the Mets wont this year. Talent eventually will take over.

Tejada and Reyes in the same sentence is silly. This is the desperate Met fan attempt at over emphaszing Reyes' slow start and over stating Tejadas fast start. Enjoy now...it wont last.

With that said - if you ask Strawman....Reyes walked the earth 2000 years ago, had 12 apostles follow him around, and is the reason we have Easter. This is not the case. Reyes is not a great player...he has had spurts of greatness but after 8 years he is what he is. A good shortstop that is a legs player and a huge injury risk. Reyes will be no where to be found at 40. Guys that are big injury risks at 26 dont usually hang around until 40. Especially legs players with leg injury issues.

Also putting Jeter and Reyes in the same sentence is equally silly. (Almost every bit as bad as Reyes/Tejada in the same sentence...almost). Another desperate attempt at over emphasizing a Met player in relation to baseball history - its not working. Then again because of Reyes we have Peeps. Sorry for digressing...

I still believe the Mets will finish in last place not getting 70 wins.

[Strawman]

With that said - if you ask Strawman....Reyes walked the earth 2000 years ago, had 12 apostles follow him around, and is the reason we have Easter. This is not the case.

No Pauly that was Jesus....Jesus Feliciano.

Maybe that stupid Sandy Alderson shoulda kept Jesus at Buffalo! (The Wilpons prevented this, I realize).

But to rebut your actual argument: Paul Molitor. Lets player. Oft-injured. Played past 40. Hall of Fame.

[Paulypal]

No Pauly that was Jesus....Jesus Feliciano.

Maybe that stupid Sandy Alderson shoulda kept Jesus at Buffalo! (The Wilpons prevented this, I realize).

But to rebut your actual argument: Paul Molitor. Lets player. Oft-injured. Played past 40. Hall of Fame.

Strawman.

Molitor. Good rebut. I still don't see Jose playing that long

[Strawman]

Strawman.

Molitor. Good rebut. I still don't see Jose playing that long

Yeah I can understand that - the same was true about Molitor at the time. Now, I will freely admit that Molitor beat the odds. Not every player does that. I kinda hope Jose does.

[Shea Knight]

Pauly:

I know--and even stated--Tejada is no Reyes, just saying, right now...well, regardless of how well Reyes does (and I think he'll still be a perennial All-Star pick for some years and, yes, I will say he might have a shot at Cooperstown with another 6-7 good years...granted, again, this is all contingent on the health of those legs, and we as Mets fans know what a big "IF!" that is, but still) I just think Tejada's start's encouraging.

Chances are we won't get another Reyes for years, or decades--

So we'll likely have to make do...and after all, the Met teams of the past have had decent-if-not-superstar SS's--

Harrelson, Santana, and who I grew up watching, Rey Ordonez.

I'll take a Rey-caliber SS...not that Tejada is right now, but I could see him becoming one; probably not with the glove (Ordonez was amazing) but he can hit better than Rey could...at least he can now...

And anyway, I stand by what I said before in other threads--

I'd LOVE if the Mets were contenders...
I'd be ecstatic if they made the playoffs again someday...
I'd be up on the roof and out all night with joy if they ever won a pennant again or--gasp!--a World Series...the former happened when I was about 11, it was amazing; the latter hasn't happened in my lifetime, so I can only imagine...

But all that said--I've grown to know over my many years watching the Mets (not as many as you, obviously, but still)--

They're not the Yankees...
Or the Cardinals...
Or the Red Sox...
Or even the modern Angels.

I don't expect playoffs, or pennant runs, or WS wins--I want them (hence my reason for wanting Wilpon out...which now sadly won't happen) but still...

For me, personally--81-81 would be an OK year for me for the Mets, especially these Mets.

About a 50/50 shot of winning or losing, some fun games...it at least gives me a reason to tune in, a 50/50 shot...I know that come September they're all but irrelevant, likely, but still, until then, and even after then...with a .500 team, at least there's that unpredictability factor of enjoyment, it's not a 90/100-loss team, where why even bother watching, in all likelihood, they'll just lose and likely get creamed...

At least at a .500 level (and maybe, just maybe, a bit more) I can turn on the XM Radio, relax with a book, Coke, and Howie Rose, and take enjoyment out of the fact that, hey, it's the Mets playing the Braves tonight, and that's always fun for me, rooting against them as a kid in the 90s...or it's Mets/Phillies, and that's given some memorable games (a couple of near no-hitters, including the one Cole Hamels, of all people, spoiled, and the "Bin Laden Dead" Game last year), so that might be fun...or Mets/Yankees, and the Subway Series was fun, reminding me of some fun games I've watched and listened to there, and the fun conversations my Mantle-era-Yankees-fan uncle and I have had, and had in 2000...or it's Mets/Dodgers, and it's about as good a baseball experience as I can get without going to a game--Mets vs. the local Dodgers, who I hate, Coke, a warm evening, the game on at my time and not EST, and Vin Scully calling the game.

At least at the level the Mets are playing right now...I can at least enjoy THAT, and not suffer a year (hopefully) like 2009, where by June, I was just so burnt out with the regular season, and the WS of Yankees/Phillies seemed like a mocking two-fisted punch to the gut...

It'd be like a Raiders/Cowboys Super Bowl for me as a 49ers fan--throw in another Super Bowl halftime performance by Madonna and warm beers and the whole Super Sunday is ruined.

At least at .500 I can get SOME enjoyment--the most enjoyment I can expect for a while, it seems--out of the Mets.

I can see 77-85, or another 80-82 campaign...near enough .500 so I can at least be somewhat invested for most of the season just enjoying each ballgame on its own (and trying very, very hard to ignore the NL East standings and hope the Angels pick up enough that I might have someone to root for come October) but I'll root for 81-81 or, dare I say it, 82-80.

Modest to the point of sad, maybe, in terms of goals...

But with 3 playoff trips and just 1 pennant in 15 or so years of staying true to the Orange and Blue...I've learned to make do with what I can when it comes to the Mets...and really, REALLY hope the Angels, Red Sox, or Giants go deep in October!

(And wow...may I say after the fact that turned out to be a LOT longer and more than I'd planned to type!)

[Blue387]

This team needs better pitching and defense. I think this is obvious.