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The Mets' All-Time 50th Anniversary Team Selected

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  • The Mets' All-Time 50th Anniversary Team Selected

    /watch?v=MRujZNS0Wuk&feature=g*-user-u

    With one manager, one player for the position slots, two starters, and two relievers, the results:

    Manager: Davey Johnson
    C: Mike Piazza
    1B: Keith Hernandez
    2B: Edgardo Alfonzo
    SS: Jose Reyes
    3B: David Wright
    LF: Cleon Jones
    CF: Carlos Beltran
    RF: Darryl Strawberry
    SP: Tom Seaver
    SP: Jerry Koosman
    RP: Roger McDowell
    RP: Tug McGraw

    I think it's a pretty good list, one I'd agree with and play for fantasy baseball All-Time games...

    If I questioned anything, it'd be the pitchers--

    With so many great pitchers for the Mets, aside from Seaver being a lock for the "ace" slot, I'd maybe choose differently:

    He burned out fast, but given how great he was at his height, I might take Doc Gooden over Koosman, or maybe Ron Darling put Ron Darling on the All-Time Team (good pitching and then his announcing for the team and place with the Mets maybe elevating him over Doc and Koos, at least putting him in the discussion) and while I know he's not at all in the discussion for the #2 pitcher on an All-Time Mets team, the 9-year old kid in me wishes Al Leiter could've made the squad.

    Same with the relief pitchers--I'd have preferred John Franco in there, I'm not sure who I'd pick him over...

    But still, a great list, and if they had a full 25-man team, I'm sure all those guys would be on it.

    What do you guys think?

    And they didn't pick announcers, but if they DID...say you could have 3 total, any combo of Mets TV/Radio voices--who would you pick?

    I'd take Ralph Kiner and Gary Cohen on TV, Bob Murphy on radio (again, the selfish person in me wants to take Howie Rose for radio since I've heard the most Mets games over radio via his call, but no doubting Murphy belongs there, and anyway, at least I've obviously had the luck to catch some of Gary's games, and even a couple days now when Kiner calls an inning or two...he sounds so fun, even in his old age and slower, I can only imagine how good he must've been back in the day.)
    "Ya Gotta Believe!" -Tug McGraw ... "How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life." -James T. Kirk ... "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -Sherlock Holmes ... "It is out of the deepest depth that the highest must come to its height." -Friedrich Nietzsche ... "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet

  • #2
    The picks are pretty good, over all. I think the pitchers are best righty and best lefty, so Koosman gets the second spot. Though he might arguably be above Doc and Ronnie anyway, those guys are righties and Seaver gets that spot... I think I would vote for Bud Harrelson over Reyes, though. People might not remember, but he was one of the best defensive shortstops and a real team leader. He helped transform the Mets from losers to winners, and played for 2 pennant winners and only one loss away from 2 World Series winners. Mets never even won a pennant with Reyes. Sure Reyes was a good hitter, but Buddy was no slouch offensively either. Not a high average, but he always kept rallies alive with bunts and clutch singles... Felix Millan was pretty good at second, though I guess I can accept Alfonzo... You could probably take Gary Carter at catcher just as easily as Piazza... I loved Jerry Grote too, again he had more intangibles than what you can see in the statistics. Other than Buddy, I can accept this all time Mets team.

    Comment


    • #3
      Good picks. I would definitely take Koosman over Gooden, who really had only 2 really good seasons, with one being an all-time season, of course.
      1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

      1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

      1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


      The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
      The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

      Comment


      • #4
        I have no issue with the selections. I think they could have added a few pitcher spots, and maybe a couple of bench spots as well. I think John Franco should have been on the team as well. I realize they did the whole lefty/righty thing, but no way mcDowell should be on the team over Franco. Hence my issue with the lefty/righty thing over just picking say 8 total pitchers of any sort, or 5 starters/4 relievers of any type. The fielders were pretty cut and dry. Just curious what your lineup would look like with these guys? Here's mine;


        1) Reyes
        2) Beltran
        3) Hernandez
        4) Piazza
        5) Strawberry
        6) Wright
        7) Alfonzo
        8) Jones

        I was debating moving Hernandez to #2 and moving Piazza-Strawberry-Wright up a spot, with Beltran at 6, but I like Beltran's speed at #2.
        unknown brooklyn cabbie " how are the brooks doin"
        unknown fan "good they got three men on base"
        unknown brooklyn cabbie "which one?"

        Comment


        • #5
          I think they missed in two categories:

          1. Catcher - I'd have gone with Gary Carter.

          Carter transformed the Mets into a pennant winner and was arguably one of the top two-way catchers of all time, not all that far behind Bench. Piazza was an offensive force but a very desultory backstop. I know he played more recently and was the face of that era, but I'd give the edge to Carter, who put up numbers in a very different offensive era and played brilliant defense. Plus he was a great leader, not just a great hitter.

          2. Manager - Gil Hodges was robbed.

          Sorry. Davey Johnson was a fine manager for the '86 Mets and deserves his spot in Mets history. But he's no Gil Hodges - the heart and soul of the franchise's rise to the top in 1969 and the man who made that team what it was. Ask any '69 veteran - heck, Cleon Jones was talking about it the other night - Hodges was the man. He pushed that team. Davey more of less got out of the way and let the players be what they were on a very deep, talented team.
          Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Strawman View Post
            I think they missed in two categories:

            1. Catcher - I'd have gone with Gary Carter.

            Carter transformed the Mets into a pennant winner and was arguably one of the top two-way catchers of all time, not all that far behind Bench. Piazza was an offensive force but a very desultory backstop. I know he played more recently and was the face of that era, but I'd give the edge to Carter, who put up numbers in a very different offensive era and played brilliant defense. Plus he was a great leader, not just a great hitter.

            2. Manager - Gil Hodges was robbed.

            Sorry. Davey Johnson was a fine manager for the '86 Mets and deserves his spot in Mets history. But he's no Gil Hodges - the heart and soul of the franchise's rise to the top in 1969 and the man who made that team what it was. Ask any '69 veteran - heck, Cleon Jones was talking about it the other night - Hodges was the man. He pushed that team. Davey more of less got out of the way and let the players be what they were on a very deep, talented team.
            Carter, God rest his soul only had two great seasons with us, and was at the end of his prime. Piazza was in the middle of his prime, and he carried a mediocre Mets team to the playoffs in back to back years for the only time in franchise history, as well as to the Series in 2000. I love Gary Carter, but Mike Piazza deserves this honor. I could go either way on the manager. I think both men did fine jobs, and no one is head and shoulders above the other. Who knows what may have happened if Gil hadn't passed way too soon.
            unknown brooklyn cabbie " how are the brooks doin"
            unknown fan "good they got three men on base"
            unknown brooklyn cabbie "which one?"

            Comment


            • #7
              We pretty much nailed it one to three years ago. Other than the manager, we chose every one of them, including the righty/lefty pitchers.

              http://www.baseball-fever.com/showth...Mets-Team-Poll
              Put it in the books.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Matthew C. View Post
                Good picks. I would definitely take Koosman over Gooden, who really had only 2 really good seasons, with one being an all-time season, of course.
                I believe it was righty/lefty. If not no way I take Koosman over Gooden. Koosman had a .505 winning %.............Gooden .649 with the Mets. Gooden only had two good seasons?

                17-9
                24-4
                17-6
                15-7
                18-9
                9-4
                19-7
                13-7

                Not a bad first 8 seasons.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
                  I believe it was righty/lefty. If not no way I take Koosman over Gooden. Koosman had a .505 winning %.............Gooden .649 with the Mets. Gooden only had two good seasons?

                  17-9
                  24-4
                  17-6
                  15-7
                  18-9
                  9-4
                  19-7
                  13-7

                  Not a bad first 8 seasons.
                  Yeah 2 good, 6 great.
                  unknown brooklyn cabbie " how are the brooks doin"
                  unknown fan "good they got three men on base"
                  unknown brooklyn cabbie "which one?"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
                    I believe it was righty/lefty. If not no way I take Koosman over Gooden. Koosman had a .505 winning %.............Gooden .649 with the Mets. Gooden only had two good seasons?

                    17-9
                    24-4
                    17-6
                    15-7
                    18-9
                    9-4
                    19-7
                    13-7

                    Not a bad first 8 seasons.
                    I said "really good seasons". After 1985 Gooden never finished higher than 7th in ERA or 4th in IP again, and barely so. In fact, after 1985 Gooden never finished in the top 5 in both IP and ERA again. 1986 was his last season with a 120 or higher ERA+ in a full season. And after 1986, only made one more ASG. Yeah, his records were good, but he got great run support. Look, he was a good pitcher after 1985, but after 1985, he was never a deserving Cy Young candidate again. Koosman was a top 5-10 pitcher five or six times. It wasn't Koosman's fault that the team around him was awful - he posted much better ERAs and IP numbers relative to his peers than Gooden, save 1985.

                    Are you really going to list W-L record in isolation to prove a point about pitcher quality?
                    1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                    1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                    1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                    The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                    The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Everything is subjective, of course, but Jerry Grote was the best defensive catcher I ever saw. In maybe the greatest steal in franchise history, the Mets somehow acquired Grote. They gave Houston a pitcher named Tom Parsons, who never pitched in MLB after the trade.

                      How good was Grote? Grote called the pitches for some of the most outstanding pitchers of his era, including Tom Seaver, Jerry Koosman, Tug McGraw, Nolan Ryan, Tommy John, Don Sutton and Dan Quisenberry. He possessed a strong and accurate throwing arm against opposing baserunners. Hall of Fame inductee Lou Brock found Grote to be one of the most difficult catchers on which to attempt a stolen base, and though Hall of Fame catcher Johnny Bench was the perennial Gold Glove winner during their careers in the National League together, Bench once said of Grote, "If Grote and I were on the same team, I would be playing third base."

                      Tom Seaver said Grote was a better defensive catcher than Bench or Fisk. That's good enough for me.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Gil should've been the manager.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Enjoying the show. Fonzie is still cool as heck in my book. Love that guy. Remember when we sent him to the Giants he put out a full page Ad in all the dailies thanking us, the fans? I will never forget that!
                          unknown brooklyn cabbie " how are the brooks doin"
                          unknown fan "good they got three men on base"
                          unknown brooklyn cabbie "which one?"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Cleon Jones was a riot during his on-stage interview. On the other hand, Tom Seaver was all but incoherent. I don't know if his emotions were getting the best of him or what. But he was unable to express a complete thought.
                            First Game- Twinight DH, Mets vs. Cards at Shea, August 22, 1965

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