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  • Another impressive outing to say the least.

    You know to me its not his stuff (which is nothing less than awesome), its his tenacity on the mound. That is what is going to make him great.

    Many guys have come and gone with great arms & great stuff....but Harvey is just a beast on the mound. He doesn't care who is the box he feels he is better, and it is clear to me that he is going to impose that on the hitters.

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    • Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
      Another impressive outing to say the least.

      You know to me its not his stuff (which is nothing less than awesome), its his tenacity on the mound. That is what is going to make him great.

      Many guys have come and gone with great arms & great stuff....but Harvey is just a beast on the mound. He doesn't care who is the box he feels he is better, and it is clear to me that he is going to impose that on the hitters.
      When he got hit with that liner his basic attitude toward the trainer was "get the $%&@% off my mound." You gotta love it. He's a rarity. Fans who expect Wheeler - or anyone else - to be "another Harvey" will be sadly disappointed. Let's hope the Mets can keep him long-term.
      Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.

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      • Originally posted by Strawman View Post
        When he got hit with that liner his basic attitude toward the trainer was "get the $%&@% off my mound." You gotta love it. He's a rarity. Fans who expect Wheeler - or anyone else - to be "another Harvey" will be sadly disappointed. Let's hope the Mets can keep him long-term.
        I won't be disappointed if Harvey isn't as good as Wheeler.

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        • Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
          You know to me its not his stuff (which is nothing less than awesome), its his tenacity on the mound. That is what is going to make him great.

          Many guys have come and gone with great arms & great stuff....but Harvey is just a beast on the mound. He doesn't care who is the box he feels he is better, and it is clear to me that he is going to impose that on the hitters.
          But it's his stuff that'll make him a successful pitcher. Many Phillies fans, for some reason, thought that Vance Worley was better than he actually was simply because he was a "bulldog" on the mound. The difference between he and Harvey is that Harvey has a legitimate arsenal of pitches.
          "Chuckie doesn't take on 2-0. Chuckie's hackin'." - Chuck Carr two days prior to being released by the Milwaukee Brewers

          Comment


          • Originally posted by LI METS FAN View Post
            I won't be disappointed if Harvey isn't as good as Wheeler.
            Wheeler is trade bait (at least he should be, in my view - not that good, no Harvey, not the right make up for New York - his upside is basically AJ Burnett).
            Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.

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            • Originally posted by Strawman View Post
              Wheeler is trade bait (at least he should be, in my view - not that good, no Harvey, not the right make up for New York - his upside is basically AJ Burnett).
              And what are the Mets going to trade for that's more valuable than 6 years of below market value AJ Burnett?

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              • And I'd like to at least see a Harvey/Wheeler rotation for a bit before we start talking about trading Wheeler...

                I don't know why everyone's so down on him--even if he's not Harvey, even if he's "just" a decent pitcher...

                Isn't that one more decent pitcher than we have in our rotation than we currently have?
                "Ya Gotta Believe!" -Tug McGraw ... "How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life." -James T. Kirk ... "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -Sherlock Holmes ... "It is out of the deepest depth that the highest must come to its height." -Friedrich Nietzsche ... "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet

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                • Originally posted by filihok View Post
                  And what are the Mets going to trade for that's more valuable than 6 years of below market value AJ Burnett?
                  Not a bad point there - values are inflated for pitchers, especially early career ones. Makes even a Burnett type super valuable. But I'd argue for a young outfielder of the Stanton variety.
                  Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Strawman View Post
                    But I'd argue for a young outfielder of the Stanton variety.
                    That's a pretty short list. Add in that to get Stanton himself, the Mets would likely have to offer more than most other teams. I doubt Miami would want to send him to a team in their own division and have to be reminded of it 18 times a year.

                    In fairness to Wheeler, his numbers are very similar to Harvey's 2012 while he himself was in AAA. The difference I see is that Zach's pitching in a much more difficult environment being in the PCL.
                    "Chuckie doesn't take on 2-0. Chuckie's hackin'." - Chuck Carr two days prior to being released by the Milwaukee Brewers

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                    • Again, I say we ought to at least look and see what we've got with Wheeler on the big stage.
                      "Ya Gotta Believe!" -Tug McGraw ... "How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life." -James T. Kirk ... "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -Sherlock Holmes ... "It is out of the deepest depth that the highest must come to its height." -Friedrich Nietzsche ... "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Shea Knight View Post
                        Again, I say we ought to at least look and see what we've got with Wheeler on the big stage.
                        I agree. Enough of the talk.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Ben Grimm View Post
                          That's a pretty short list. Add in that to get Stanton himself, the Mets would likely have to offer more than most other teams. I doubt Miami would want to send him to a team in their own division and have to be reminded of it 18 times a year.

                          In fairness to Wheeler, his numbers are very similar to Harvey's 2012 while he himself was in AAA. The difference I see is that Zach's pitching in a much more difficult environment being in the PCL.
                          Yes he is. That's why it's important to look at his mechanics, and his command of the zone, more so than his stats. Scouts are saying that he is pitching well, and not to worry about his numbers. Some say that environment may ruin a young pitcher, but if he has the proper makeup it will make him better, because he will not be as afraid to make a mistake. Ask any good pitcher and they will tell you half of pitching is mental. A pitcher afraid to make a mistake usually will, those who attack the zone and are not afraid to make a mistake are the ones you want. This is Matt Harvey, hopefully Wheeler has the same mentality when he gets here.
                          unknown brooklyn cabbie " how are the brooks doin"
                          unknown fan "good they got three men on base"
                          unknown brooklyn cabbie "which one?"

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                          • Another solid start for Harvey (so far) today. 6 IP, 5 H, 1 BB, 1 ER, 7 K using only 83 pitches.

                            Mets down 1-0, of course.
                            My top 10 players:

                            1. Babe Ruth
                            2. Barry Bonds
                            3. Ty Cobb
                            4. Ted Williams
                            5. Willie Mays
                            6. Alex Rodriguez
                            7. Hank Aaron
                            8. Honus Wagner
                            9. Lou Gehrig
                            10. Mickey Mantle

                            Comment


                            • And Harvey has been removed from the game after 7 innings and 97 pitches. Impressive performance against a very solid St. Louis lineup. He went head to head with one of the best pitchers in Baseball in Adam Wainwright, but just got out-pitched today.

                              He can lose the game but he cannot win it.

                              Let's see if the Mets can scratch out a run in the final two innings to preserve Harvey's perfect record.
                              My top 10 players:

                              1. Babe Ruth
                              2. Barry Bonds
                              3. Ty Cobb
                              4. Ted Williams
                              5. Willie Mays
                              6. Alex Rodriguez
                              7. Hank Aaron
                              8. Honus Wagner
                              9. Lou Gehrig
                              10. Mickey Mantle

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post
                                And Harvey has been removed from the game after 7 innings and 97 pitches. Impressive performance against a very solid St. Louis lineup. He went head to head with one of the best pitchers in Baseball in Adam Wainwright, but just got out-pitched today.
                                Did he get out-pitched or did The Cardinals out hit the Mets? I think that those are two different things.

                                Batted Ball FIP, which estimates the expected number of runs scored based on K's, BB's and batted balls, says that:
                                Adam Wainwright would be expected to give up 2.94 runs per 9 innings pitching as he did today. It says that Harvey would be expected to give up .5 runs per 9 innings pitching as he did today. Plenty of evidence that Harvey out-pitched Wainwright, but will still take the loss.

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