Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Matt Harvey

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Zack Wheeler...

    ...to debut Tuesday


    If he's not as good as Harvey (he almost certainly won't be) how quickly will Mets fans turn on him?

    Comment


    • I thought I watched baseball for fun, not to feel like Im sitting down with my accountant doing my taxes. Too much stats makes the game seem dry and non-human. I'm into the visual experiences, not looking at numbers. You can tell by watching who has it, and who doesn't.
      unknown brooklyn cabbie " how are the brooks doin"
      unknown fan "good they got three men on base"
      unknown brooklyn cabbie "which one?"

      Comment


      • Originally posted by theAmazingMet View Post
        I thought I watched baseball for fun, not to feel like Im sitting down with my accountant doing my taxes. Too much stats makes the game seem dry and non-human. I'm into the visual experiences, not looking at numbers. You can tell by watching who has it, and who doesn't.
        I speak with a lot of sabermetricians, and not a one that I know calculates math problems in the middle of games. They all watch and enjoy baseball and worry about analytic inbetween. Without exception.
        1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

        1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

        1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


        The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
        The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Matthew C. View Post
          I speak with a lot of sabermetricians, and not a one that I know calculates math problems in the middle of games. They all watch and enjoy baseball and worry about analytic inbetween. Without exception.
          I sat near DePodesta at a Savannah Sand Gnats game a couple of years ago. Not once did he pull out a calculator or spreadsheet.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by theAmazingMet View Post
            I thought I watched baseball for fun, not to feel like Im sitting down with my accountant doing my taxes. Too much stats makes the game seem dry and non-human. I'm into the visual experiences, not looking at numbers. You can tell by watching who has it, and who doesn't.
            Originally posted by Matthew C. View Post
            I speak with a lot of sabermetricians, and not a one that I know calculates math problems in the middle of games. They all watch and enjoy baseball and worry about analytic inbetween. Without exception.
            Originally posted by Dugmet View Post
            I sat near DePodesta at a Savannah Sand Gnats game a couple of years ago. Not once did he pull out a calculator or spreadsheet.
            The new stats are great and allow us to look at the game in a whole new way...for the better for the most part. I do think some of them are over kill but whatever I still use them.

            The one huge mistake made, and I see it on the board, is that everything that happens gets explained by some statistical analysis. The beauty of sports and baseball specifically is that not everything can or should be explained on a spreadsheet. If it were then why bother watching.....we can just watch the computer version of the game.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by filihok View Post
              Zack Wheeler...

              ...to debut Tuesday


              If he's not as good as Harvey (he almost certainly won't be) how quickly will Mets fans turn on him?
              No chance. Harvey lost 3 of his first 4 games pitched. Wheeler is the FUTURE, not the present. No one is turning on the future any time soon.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by theAmazingMet View Post
                I thought I watched baseball for fun, not to feel like Im sitting down with my accountant doing my taxes. Too much stats makes the game seem dry and non-human. I'm into the visual experiences, not looking at numbers. You can tell by watching who has it, and who doesn't.
                Here's a bunch of scouts at a game

                7054110.jpeg

                What's that in their hands? Spreadsheets?
                What are they doing, gathering information?

                Man, these guys that observe baseball with their own two eyes look as much like accountants as stat-nerds.


                Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
                The new stats are great and allow us to look at the game in a whole new way...for the better for the most part. I do think some of them are over kill but whatever I still use them.

                The one huge mistake made, and I see it on the board, is that everything that happens gets explained by some statistical analysis. The beauty of sports and baseball specifically is that not everything can or should be explained on a spreadsheet. If it were then why bother watching.....we can just watch the computer version of the game.
                Why are some stats 'over kill'?
                At what point did you say "I know enough about baseball and I don't want to understand any more"?
                I have yet to reach that point.

                Ah yes, the magic of baseball.
                The things that can't be explained.
                Like how the tide comes in and goes out.
                Some people prefer to believe in myths and magic.
                Some people require better answers than that.
                Last edited by filihok; 06-15-2013, 07:52 AM.

                Comment


                • That's all fine and good, but I hate when people believe that everything can be quantified to a number, or statistic. People who look for truth in numbers will never find the absolute. Like Pauly said, stats are fine to a point, but past performance doesn't and never will predict the future. If it did explain why josh Hamilton is so bad this year, and why so many people drafted him in the first round? You can look at the numbers all you want, and feel that you have an absolute grasp on predictors of a particular player, yet when the season plays out you can get a bucket of cold hard truth splashed in your face when that player slumps. Humans too often try to find truth in science, and trust their mathematics, but sometimes in life an iceberg comes along that sinks their absolutes. This is what we are talking about. Numbers are fine and good, but they are only part of the equation, not the whole equation.
                  unknown brooklyn cabbie " how are the brooks doin"
                  unknown fan "good they got three men on base"
                  unknown brooklyn cabbie "which one?"

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by theAmazingMet View Post
                    That's all fine and good, but I hate when people believe that everything can be quantified to a number, or statistic.
                    Who believes that?


                    People who look for truth in numbers will never find the absolute. Like Pauly said, stats are fine to a point, but past performance doesn't and never will predict the future. If it did explain why josh Hamilton is so bad this year, and why so many people drafted him in the first round? You can look at the numbers all you want, and feel that you have an absolute grasp on predictors of a particular player, yet when the season plays out you can get a bucket of cold hard truth splashed in your face when that player slumps. Humans too often try to find truth in science, and trust their mathematics, but sometimes in life an iceberg comes along that sinks their absolutes. This is what we are talking about. Numbers are fine and good, but they are only part of the equation, not the whole equation.
                    I think you have a misunderstanding of numbers.
                    That's ok. Most people do.

                    I hate to go back to coins again but:
                    If you ask someone what's going to happen if you flip a coin a person who understands probabilities will tell you that there's a 50% chance of heads and a 50% chance of tails. They would never try to tell you that there was a 100% chance of either one.

                    The same is true of baseball statistics.

                    If anyone tells you that Josh Hamilton is definitely going to do...whatever, that's a person that you don't really need to listen to (disclaimer: we ALL tend to overstate ourselves from time to time).
                    For any player there are a range of possible outcomes at the end of the season.
                    Maybe the player has a career year.
                    Maybe the player has totally falls apart.
                    Probably the player does something in between those two things.

                    Comment


                    • Folks, this is a decent thread, and can have a legitimate debate value. But please, let's not get too personal with our arguments. Focus on the posts, not the posters. Thanks much. :cap:
                      Put it in the books.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by filihok View Post
                        Here's a bunch of scouts at a game

                        [ATTACH=CONFIG]126076[/ATTACH]

                        What's that in their hands? Spreadsheets?
                        What are they doing, gathering information?

                        Man, these guys that observe baseball with their own two eyes look as much like accountants as stat-nerds.



                        Why are some stats 'over kill'?
                        At what point did you say "I know enough about baseball and I don't want to understand any more"?
                        I have yet to reach that point.

                        Ah yes, the magic of baseball.
                        The things that can't be explained.
                        Like how the tide comes in and goes out.
                        Some people prefer to believe in myths and magic.
                        Some people require better answers than that.
                        I think some stats are overkill because I see some redundancy. Just my opinion.

                        I have never nor will I ever say I know all I need to know about baseball. Its never going to happen, but I do look at the game from two different angles......one that is the same as yours following the stats, and the other with me standing on the field with a glove or bat in my hand.

                        I don't believe in myths and magic as I am an avid believer in stats, but that doesn't mean I take the human element out of it either. If you consider that myths and magic...then its you that sadly thinks they know more than what they actually do.

                        I think many people that are avid and stat guys only....never really get it. I believe it is them that think they have learned everything about the game.

                        When you play there is so much that goes into the game that guys that are just basically stat heads cant understand. When they watch a game even on TV they miss so much of the actual game. For instance how the pitcher and catcher are setting up a hitter - where the defense is ...there is a million other things going on that are so much a part of the game that I just couldn't list if I wanted to.

                        I am not saying all guys that are into stats fall into that bucket, but there are many who do.

                        I am not sure how old you are but the internet and computers have spawned a whole new generation of fan. They click on Fangraphs and they have it all figured out. Again sites like Fangraphs are great (I often research some stuff on there), but it doesn't end there.

                        I am not saying this is you or anyone else on this forum, but too many of the younger kids have confused Play Station with reality. Which is why (not to get on a soapbox) that you have so many obese younger kids. Instead of going out and playing it themselves, they choose to sit down and think they are Bryce Harper because they play with the Nationals in a video game.
                        Last edited by Paulypal; 06-15-2013, 11:18 AM.

                        Comment


                        • I, myself, can appreciate what both sides bring to the table - stat heads and eyeballers.

                          But I don't think one can lean too much to the left or right to get a complete picture. I believe that the closer you are to 50/50, the more information you can gather. As long as the human element's involved in the game, there are some things numbers cannot project or expect. On the other hand, the use of data can give one an informed opinion of what could possibly (probably?) happen.

                          I don't always agree with one side or the other, but I try to walk that line in the middle as best I can - though it's tough as we cannot see every player in every game over a season. Sometimes I rely on those who see a guy play day in and day out. Other times I need more data.

                          It's part of what makes baseball so great. Not just the game itself, but the commentary and breakdown prior to, during and following it.
                          "Chuckie doesn't take on 2-0. Chuckie's hackin'." - Chuck Carr two days prior to being released by the Milwaukee Brewers

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
                            I think some stats are overkill because I see some redundancy.
                            For example?



                            When you play there is so much that goes into the game that guys that are just basically stat heads cant understand. When they watch a game even on TV they miss so much of the actual game. For instance how the pitcher and catcher are setting up a hitter - where the defense is ...there is a million other things going on that are so much a part of the game that I just couldn't list if I wanted to.
                            Do you think these things can't be quantified?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by filihok View Post
                              For example?

                              Do you think these things can't be quantified?
                              Anything can be quantified - in the past. So-called advanced stats are just thinner slices of data that may - or may not - help management to predict the future.
                              Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.

                              Comment


                              • To expound upon what Pauly is saying and filihoks question if I may. I have played sports at a highly advanced level, much further than many have made it. Certain things can be put into stats, that's fine, I've never disputed the use of stats to explain SOME of the total equation, but there are things you will never quantify or understand unless you've been there before. Playing tired because your kid was crying all night and you slept two hours. A frantic call that a teammate was killed on the way to a game you are playing. Worrying how you are gonna make up a to a loved one you have upset, etc. etc. you are not always entirely there over the course of a season. You can't quantify any of that. Other teams stealing signs can't be quantified. There is so much more that goes into the PLAYING if a game than just plate appearances, pitching and defense.
                                unknown brooklyn cabbie " how are the brooks doin"
                                unknown fan "good they got three men on base"
                                unknown brooklyn cabbie "which one?"

                                Comment

                                Ad Widget

                                Collapse
                                Working...
                                X