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  • Basically what I'm saying is both stats and the human element are important, so long as neither becomes over prevalent. Now if we can return to discussing Matt Harvey.
    unknown brooklyn cabbie " how are the brooks doin"
    unknown fan "good they got three men on base"
    unknown brooklyn cabbie "which one?"

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    • Originally posted by filihok View Post
      For example?




      Do you think these things can't be quantified?
      When I come across them again I will point them out.

      I know somethings cant be quantified. For example - a fielder (without being told) the proper positioning on a hitter based upon the way he is being pitched, and adjusting as the game goes. Some players have the instinct some don't.
      Last edited by Paulypal; 06-15-2013, 02:18 PM.

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      • Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
        When I come across them again I will point them out.
        ROFL

        I know somethings cant be quantified. For example - a fielder (without being told) the proper positioning on a hitter based upon the way he is being pitched, and adjusting as the game goes. Some players have the instinct some don't.
        Why do you think that a player's positioning couldn't be quantified?

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        • Originally posted by filihok View Post
          ROFL
          If you think I am going to go through the 900 stats available to make a point to you...your sadly mistaken. Some stats are redundant.

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          • Originally posted by filihok View Post
            Why do you think that a player's positioning couldn't be quantified?
            If you think it can be ....great.

            What size pocket protector do you use?

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            • Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
              If you think I am going to go through the 900 stats available to make a point to you...your sadly mistaken. Some stats are redundant.
              You just need to post 2
              Which two are redundant?

              Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
              If you think it can be ....great.
              We can use math to send a spacecraft to orbit Jupiter. To orbit Jupiter we have to know where it is. If we can pinpoint Jupiter's location why do you think we can't pinpoint a shortstop's location?
              Last edited by filihok; 06-15-2013, 03:04 PM.

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              • Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
                If you think it can be ....great.

                What size pocket protector do you use?
                It's been a while since I used the ignore list.....but others quoting him defeats the purpose. LOL !

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                • Guys, I won't say it again. Please show some restraint if your reply is going to be of a personal nature. 'Nuff said. Okay?

                  I honestly don't wish to hand out suspensions to those I consider friends and comrades, but I must put duty above all else. ...Heh, I said "duty."
                  Put it in the books.

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                  • In all seriousness, I don't see what the ability to pinpoint the orbit of Jupiter has to do with sabermetrics.
                    Last edited by EasilyFound; 06-15-2013, 04:54 PM.

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                    • Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
                      The new stats are great and allow us to look at the game in a whole new way...for the better for the most part. I do think some of them are over kill but whatever I still use them.

                      The one huge mistake made, and I see it on the board, is that everything that happens gets explained by some statistical analysis. The beauty of sports and baseball specifically is that not everything can or should be explained on a spreadsheet. If it were then why bother watching.....we can just watch the computer version of the game.
                      For what it's worth, Fans were playing games like Stratmatic Baseball for decades before sabermetrics was even conceived. But Stratomatic was based on analytics. Baseball and numbers are intertwined. Hard to ignore them.

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                      • Originally posted by Dugmet View Post
                        For what it's worth, Fans were playing games like Stratmatic Baseball for decades before sabermetrics was even conceived. But Stratomatic was based on analytics. Baseball and numbers are intertwined. Hard to ignore them.
                        This I agree with - I'm a long-time Strat-o player (just not in recent years) - it's a huge part of the game. And I respect the so-called advanced stats - even if I think they're merely new, not really advanced. And I still think they predict nothing but potentiality.
                        Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.

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                        • Originally posted by EasilyFound View Post
                          In all seriousness, I don't see what the ability to pinpoint the orbit of Jupiter has to do with sabermetrics.
                          You might be right. Maybe nothing.

                          Cartesian coordinates can be used to describe the location of a point on a two-dimensional surface. This system was created about 500 years ago.

                          A baseball field is, roughly, a two-dimensional surface.

                          Cartesian coordinates can describe the location of any point on a baseball field's surface.


                          cartesian-plane-6.png


                          It would be as simple as saying that SS Joe positions himself at 2,1 on fastballs to right-handed hitters and 0,2 on curve balls.

                          Collecting the data would be more difficult, but easily quantifiable.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Strawman View Post
                            This I agree with - I'm a long-time Strat-o player (just not in recent years) - it's a huge part of the game. And I respect the so-called advanced stats - even if I think they're merely new, not really advanced. And I still think they predict nothing but potentiality.
                            I was a APBA player but also loved Strat-O-Matic. All you are doing is playing the percentages. I would rather gain my baseball knowledge from old school stats and actually watching the game. The human mind also has the ability to remember trends and to reason or predict a outcome from past events they have experienced. Baseball is a game to watch and enjoy, to me, it is not about flying around Jupiter, its entertainment. If the professionals think they get a edge with advanced stats, good for them, but do not under estimate the human mind. Happy Fathers Day to All!!

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                            • Originally posted by rjsallstars View Post
                              I was a APBA player but also loved Strat-O-Matic. All you are doing is playing the percentages. I would rather gain my baseball knowledge from old school stats and actually watching the game. The human mind also has the ability to remember trends and to reason or predict a outcome from past events they have experienced. Baseball is a game to watch and enjoy, to me, it is not about flying around Jupiter, its entertainment. If the professionals think they get a edge with advanced stats, good for them, but do not under estimate the human mind. Happy Fathers Day to All!!
                              Why can't you gain knowledge from "new-school" stats too? You can have a preference of course, but I would not write them off. I'm old school in many ways, but even when I was growing up and looking at the back of Tom Seaver's early 1970s baseball cards, I noticed that compared to other pitchers he allowed a lot fewer hits per inning pitched. Soon after I made the connection between base runners per IP by adding up hits and walks and comparing them to IP. Now you can find this stat, WHIP, listed on most all sites. I enjoy the numbers very much.

                              I am a bit overwhelmed by the new numbers from time to time. Recently I took time to understand FIP or Fielding Independent Pitching. Yes, the value is in a sense contrived, and even made to appear as though it has something to do with runs/9 innings, but I do think it adds another dimension to compare pitchers. So I like the new stats from time to time, but I'm not going to rush to a conclusion about any player until I watch them and see how those numbers play on the field.

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                              • Why do people feel so threatened by filihok's statistical analyses?

                                I find them to generally be pretty enlightening and I enjoy learning new things. Sometimes I disagree with his assessments and that's okay too.
                                My top 10 players:

                                1. Babe Ruth
                                2. Barry Bonds
                                3. Ty Cobb
                                4. Ted Williams
                                5. Willie Mays
                                6. Alex Rodriguez
                                7. Hank Aaron
                                8. Honus Wagner
                                9. Lou Gehrig
                                10. Mickey Mantle

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