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  • Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post
    Why do people feel so threatened by filihok's statistical analyses?

    I find them to generally be pretty enlightening and I enjoy learning new things. Sometimes I disagree with his assessments and that's okay too.

    Who's threatened? Bored is a better description. That's why I choose the ignore function....it gets rid of a lot of clutter. People are free to use the ignore feature on me too. That is why the forum was set up with that function.

    I just wish there was a way that people's quoting anyone who is on an ignore list would also be blocked, but that is not an option. :silent:


    I enjoy watching Harvey pitcher. I think he is a throw back to Tom Seaver and Bob Gibson. After all, the thread is about Matt Harvey.

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    • Originally posted by mandrake View Post
      I enjoy watching Harvey pitcher. I think he is a throw back to Tom Seaver and Bob Gibson. After all, the thread is about Matt Harvey.
      I love sabermetrics and enjoy watching Harvey pitch too. I bet filhok enjoys watching Kershaw pitch as well. Not sure what point you are trying to make here.
      1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

      1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

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      • Originally posted by Matthew C. View Post
        I love sabermetrics and enjoy watching Harvey pitch too. I bet filhok enjoys watching Kershaw pitch as well. Not sure what point you are trying to make here.
        The thread has become more about a member's sabermetrics and who likes them and who doesn't. I wonder if Harvey really gives a rat's tail about stats.

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        • Originally posted by mandrake View Post
          The thread has become more about a member's sabermetrics and who likes them and who doesn't. I wonder if Harvey really gives a rat's tail about stats.
          Doesn't mater if he does, or not.

          Same way it doesn't matter if an astronaut is also a rocket scientist or if a person posting on an internet forum knows anything about microprocessors.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post
            Why do people feel so threatened by filihok's statistical analyses?

            I find them to generally be pretty enlightening and I enjoy learning new things. Sometimes I disagree with his assessments and that's okay too.
            This thread really has nothing to do with filihok although somehow he became the poster boy for something we all use. Sabremetrics. I also like when he comes on with the info and appreciate that he takes the time to research it.

            I think the point some of us (at least I am) is trying to make is that they are very helpful but you can not explain the whole game away with them.

            I consider myself more new school with the stats than old school, but also consider myself smart enough about baseball to know I cant explain it by just quoting Fan Graphs.

            I am sure filihok loves watching baseball as we all do. Some of us just use our experiences as our perspective. The only thing is and will always argue is that not everything is explainable with statistics.

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            • Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
              This thread really has nothing to do with filihok although somehow he became the poster boy for something we all use. Sabremetrics. I also like when he comes on with the info and appreciate that he takes the time to research it.

              I think the point some of us (at least I am) is trying to make is that they are very helpful but you can not explain the whole game away with them.

              I consider myself more new school with the stats than old school, but also consider myself smart enough about baseball to know I cant explain it by just quoting Fan Graphs.

              I am sure filihok loves watching baseball as we all do. Some of us just use our experiences as our perspective. The only thing is and will always argue is that not everything is explainable with statistics.
              That only people that every say anything about statistics being able to explain everything are people who are bashing stats and saying that 'stats can't explain everything'.

              Similarly, it's always the anti-stat crowd that make the ridiculous claim that the stat people never watch games.

              That's not to say that the stat crowd can't be ridiculous as well.


              One of the reasons that I spend time on these sights is because I enjoy baseball and want to learn more about it. When I first came to find out about sabermetrics I had all the same arguments that I see now. Then I learned more about it and found out how useful it was.

              Now, I'm fully aware that my weakness is in the observational part of the game. I'm certainly no expert on swing or pitching mechanics, etc. I come to sights like that to learn more about those parts of the game.

              However, if someone offers a opinion or theory on some part of the game I'm not going to just believe it. I'm going to research it - either through someone else having done analysis of it, or I'm going to do my own (rudimentary) analysis of it. And if the stats don't support the claim, I'm going to say so.

              A good example of this is hitter protection. This is a thing I've heard about since I started following baseball. It's a thing that makes logical sense. It's not a thing that's supported by data. Batters simply do not hit better (or worse) based on the hitter behind them in the order. They don't. A lot of people have tried to narrow the claim down - it applies to power hitters, or it just means they get better pitches to hit. Sure. Those things might be possible. But if you want me (or anyone else) to believe it there's should be some evidence to support it.




              Matt Harvey

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              • Originally posted by mandrake View Post
                . I wonder if Harvey really gives a rat's tail about stats.
                I bet he does - considering that W/L and ERA are both "stats" and those will determine how much $$$ he gets.
                1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

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                • Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
                  This thread really has nothing to do with filihok although somehow he became the poster boy for something we all use. .
                  This is a great point. One thing a lot of people don't know or refuse to accept, is that the teams they are nostalgia-worshiping, trying to go all retro with unis and stadiums and old-school rheotic from the manager's mouth are neck deep in sabermetrics behind the scenes. Almost every team has sabermetricians on the payroll and utilize them frequently. It is very ironic that the entities that some people are trying to protect from evil new-fangled analytics are using them themselves.
                  1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                  1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                  1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                  The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                  The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

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                  • Originally posted by Matthew C. View Post
                    This is a great point. One thing a lot of people don't know or refuse to accept, is that the teams they are nostalgia-worshiping, trying to go all retro with unis and stadiums and old-school rheotic from the manager's mouth are neck deep in sabermetrics behind the scenes. Almost every team has sabermetricians on the payroll and utilize them frequently. It is very ironic that the entities that some people are trying to protect from evil new-fangled analytics are using them themselves.
                    Yeah, those new fangled stats are doing wonders for Alderson and DePodesta with the Mets. If advanced stats were the end all be all then sabermetric heavy teams would win every year. Numbers don't tell everything, you still need a strong scouting system, and coaching, and organizational structure. As a Cardinals fan you are witness to the fruits of a strong organization with great scouting. Numbers play a part, sure, but it would be doing your team a huge disservice to attribute all your success to stat geeks.
                    unknown brooklyn cabbie " how are the brooks doin"
                    unknown fan "good they got three men on base"
                    unknown brooklyn cabbie "which one?"

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                    • Wow
                      so many post, and only Mongoose was brave enough to mention the sports illustrated cover
                      we all know that the mets hitters can't produce whether you use sabermatics or not
                      so you or I can not do not blame them for matt Harvey first loss of the season.

                      so who is to blame?
                      I say it is the damned sports illustrated cover JINX or curse (LOL):hissyfit::clowning:



                      http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/31214/matt-harvey
                      for may 17, matt was 5-0
                      after the cover came out, other than May 28, the mets have lost ALL his starts
                      drdg
                      Disabled Veteran US Navy
                      Last edited by drdg; 06-17-2013, 04:56 PM.
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                      • Originally posted by theAmazingMet View Post
                        Yeah, those new fangled stats are doing wonders for Alderson and DePodesta with the Mets. If advanced stats were the end all be all then sabermetric heavy teams would win every year. Numbers don't tell everything, you still need a strong scouting system, and coaching, and organizational structure. As a Cardinals fan you are witness to the fruits of a strong organization with great scouting. Numbers play a part, sure, but it would be doing your team a huge disservice to attribute all your success to stat geeks.
                        First of all, every team is using analytics - even the successful ones. So pointing to one hapless franchise (the Mets) doesn't make any sense. Secondly, I never said sabermetrics was to be attributed for "all success" or that it is a "be all-end all". Who said that? I haven't read that anywhere. Strawman. Nor have I ever said scouting isn't important. But for the record, the ol' fashined, good 'ole boy Cardinals were one of the very first and most aggressive teams to hire sabermetricians on their payroll.

                        My point remains the same - if analytics are so bad for baseball, why is almost every team knee-deep (at least) in them? Because GMs, presidents, (and secretly many managers) know it is valuable. Both scouting and analytics are important. Both sides have their poo-pooers. The difference is, there ar a lot more people out their now who completely dismiss sabermetrics than scouting. Considering the changes we have seen in front offices, Cy Young voting (Felix), Hall of Fame voting (blyleven), and the use of sabermetrics on mainstream baseball media (WAR on ESPN, etc.) people who completely dismiss analytics have need a paradigm shift quick, because the movement isn't going anywhere soon.
                        Bothrops Atrox
                        IDC/ZRC/NJC*/*
                        Last edited by Bothrops Atrox; 06-17-2013, 07:55 PM.
                        1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                        1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                        1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                        The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                        The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

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                        • I think it is safe to say that advanced analytics are no longer a movement, but an institution.

                          One thing...I read an interview with a student at Harvard who stated that baseball was no longer of interest to stat geeks since it had reached a point of saturation, and that all the scholarly research was being done on basketball and football.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Dugmet View Post
                            I think it is safe to say that advanced analytics are no longer a movement, but an institution.

                            One thing...I read an interview with a student at Harvard who stated that baseball was no longer of interest to stat geeks since it had reached a point of saturation, and that all the scholarly research was being done on basketball and football.
                            Hockey too. I disagree to a point. The Holy Grail and the Arc of the Covenant of sabermetrics is still out there - accurately quantifying defense and separating batted ball responsibility between pitchers and fielders. Until there is any resolution in those two issues, the field will have some vitality.
                            1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                            1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                            1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                            The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                            The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Matthew C. View Post
                              Hockey too. I disagree to a point. The Holy Grail and the Arc of the Covenant of sabermetrics is still out there - accurately quantifying defense and separating batted ball responsibility between pitchers and fielders. Until there is any resolution in those two issues, the field will have some vitality.
                              The home page of the Harvard College Sports Analysis Collective -- the most notable scholarly think tank for sabermetrics (that I am aware of) -- has clearly lost interest in baseball. Maybe SUNY New Paltz can step in.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Dugmet View Post
                                The home page of the Harvard College Sports Analysis Collective -- the most notable scholarly think tank for sabermetrics (that I am aware of) -- has clearly lost interest in baseball. Maybe SUNY New Paltz can step in.
                                The internet is saturated with Baseball sabermetric think tanks. Maybe none as pretentious as the one you mentioned, but saturated. The football, basketball, and hockey movements are blowing up, it is true. I have dabbled in much of it, and find it much more frustraring. The reason analytics works better in baseball is the nature of isolated batting performance vs. isolated pitching performance. There is so much teammate interaction in the other sports, it is incredibly hard to quantify the hings they are trying to. I would say my sabermetric/traditional breakdown in each sport is 80/20 baseball, 60/40 basketball, 40/60 football, and 20/80 hockey.
                                1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                                1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                                1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                                The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                                The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

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