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  • Not an awful outing yesterday but a bit off. Harvey was over 100 pitches by the 6th inning again and his velocity began to drop a bit. to what Any thoughts as to what the problem might be?

    On the subject of Gooden vs. Harvey one advantage Gooden gave you was the ability to shut the door on opponents deep into games. It's become popular history after the fact to blame Gooden's highish pitch counts for his subsequent decline. I'm more inclined to blame the way he was tinkered with in order to become a contact pitcher. Who knows? I still think Harvey might be able to develop better stamina. Not sure if lesser stuff or lesser command was behind the high pitch counts the last 2 starts.

    What do the rest of you think?


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    • Originally posted by Mongoose View Post
      Not an awful outing yesterday but a bit off. Harvey was over 100 pitches by the 6th inning again and his velocity began to drop a bit. to what Any thoughts as to what the problem might be?

      On the subject of Gooden vs. Harvey one advantage Gooden gave you was the ability to shut the door on opponents deep into games. It's become popular history after the fact to blame Gooden's highish pitch counts for his subsequent decline. I'm more inclined to blame the way he was tinkered with in order to become a contact pitcher. Who knows? I still think Harvey might be able to develop better stamina. Not sure if lesser stuff or lesser command was behind the high pitch counts the last 2 starts.

      What do the rest of you think?
      I just notice that opposing teams are going deeper into counts on Harvey. His velocity is still there. I mentioned over in the season thread that he should've been removed after the 6th. He had thrown a lot of pitches to that point (105) and was tiring. What's the point in wearing him out?
      unknown brooklyn cabbie " how are the brooks doin"
      unknown fan "good they got three men on base"
      unknown brooklyn cabbie "which one?"

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      • Posey seems to have Harvey's number. Will have to pay attention to his ABs next time Harvey pitches against the former NY Giants.
        theAmazingMet
        There IS a "we" in team
        Last edited by theAmazingMet; 07-09-2013, 06:39 AM. Reason: Sp
        unknown brooklyn cabbie " how are the brooks doin"
        unknown fan "good they got three men on base"
        unknown brooklyn cabbie "which one?"

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        • 33
          Originally posted by Mongoose View Post
          Not an awful outing yesterday but a bit off. Harvey was over 100 pitches by the 6th inning again and his velocity began to drop a bit. to what Any thoughts as to what the problem might be?

          On the subject of Gooden vs. Harvey one advantage Gooden gave you was the ability to shut the door on opponents deep into games. It's become popular history after the fact to blame Gooden's highish pitch counts for his subsequent decline. I'm more inclined to blame the way he was tinkered with in order to become a contact pitcher. Who knows? I still think Harvey might be able to develop better stamina. Not sure if lesser stuff or lesser command was behind the high pitch counts the last 2 starts.

          What do the rest of you think?
          I think part of the problem is that the fans think that their is a problem with Harvey when he doesn't dominate. In my opinion the "problem" is that hitters are now adjusting to Harvey. He is working harder and throwing more stressful pitches so his velocity is declining as the game goes.

          At this point in both their careers its unfair to compare Harvey to Gooden. Their is no contest here. With that said Harvey is still the best pitcher on the Mets to come along since Gooden, but that doesn't mean they compare.

          I think Goodens decline was in part caused by Gooden not taking care of himself, but I agree when they wanted to make him pitch to contact his dominance was over. Unless Mel Stottlemyre knew something we didn't. Which is very possible.

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          • Originally posted by theAmazingMet View Post
            I just notice that opposing teams are going deeper into counts on Harvey. His velocity is still there. I mentioned over in the season thread that he should've been removed after the 6th. He had thrown a lot of pitches to that point (105) and was tiring. What's the point in wearing him out?
            Word is Harvey had a blister on his pitching hand and Collins still sent him out for the 7th. Seriously, wtf was Terry thinking there? He's gonna kill this kid.
            Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.

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            • Originally posted by Strawman View Post
              Word is Harvey had a blister on his pitching hand and Collins still sent him out for the 7th. Seriously, wtf was Terry thinking there? He's gonna kill this kid.
              When a manager is managing for his job some irrational behavior takes place. I have defended Terry Collins because he really is in a no win situation here, but there is no excuse for exposing Matt Harvey like that.

              Hopefully his missed turn and NOT PITCHING IN THE ALL STAR GAME fix the problem. Too many people are caught up in him being the starter in the ASG. That would be nice, but if he has to miss his turn on Saturday due to the blister and pitches in a game that is meaningless a couple of days later....well now thats just plain stupid.
              Paulypal
              Met Fan Re-Set 2020
              Last edited by Paulypal; 07-09-2013, 07:50 AM.

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              • Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
                When a manager is managing for his job some irrational behavior takes place. I have defended Terry Collins because he really is in a no win situation here, but there is no excuse for exposing Matt Harvey like that.

                Hopefully his missed turn and NOT PITCHING IN THE ALL STAR GAME fix the problem. Too many people are caught up in him being the starter in the ASG. That would be nice, but if he has to miss his turn on Saturday due to the blister and pitches in a game that is meaningless a couple of days later....well now thats just plain stupid.
                I could care less about Harvey pitching in the ASG - it's less than a spring training start to me (much less actually).

                This is why a lame duck manager like Collins - who is already not the greatest handler of pitching, now desperate for another year - is such a hideous situation for the Mets. Can you imagine hurting Harvey to somehow help the late career of Terry "freaking" Collins?! (And btw, I'm not a Collins killer either - not my fave, far from the worst).
                Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.

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                • Originally posted by EasilyFound View Post
                  However, I would say That theRe are sOme instances, partiucLarLy on internet message boards, when the focus should be put on the poster.
                  The irony of EasilyFound calling someone a troll is so rich.

                  EF, you used to hang all day in the Yankees subforum and bash the Yankees and start flame wars with all the Yankees fans. Remember your clever dollar sign that replaced the S in Yankees every time you typed the word in our forum?

                  Mercifully you got bored of trolling and stopped posting there - either that or you were banned, I'm not sure.
                  GiambiJuice
                  Registered User
                  Last edited by GiambiJuice; 07-11-2013, 05:46 PM.
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                  3. Ty Cobb
                  4. Ted Williams
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                  9. Lou Gehrig
                  10. Mickey Mantle

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                  • Originally posted by Strawman View Post
                    I could care less about Harvey pitching in the ASG - it's less than a spring training start to me (much less actually).

                    This is why a lame duck manager like Collins - who is already not the greatest handler of pitching, now desperate for another year - is such a hideous situation for the Mets. Can you imagine hurting Harvey to somehow help the late career of Terry "freaking" Collins?! (And btw, I'm not a Collins killer either - not my fave, far from the worst).
                    I doubt Collins will be with the team next year.

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                    • For the record, I am disappointed Harvey isn't pitching against the Pirates, the team with the best record in baseball. I'd much rather see him pitch that game than in the ASG if both cannot be done.

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                      • Originally posted by EasilyFound View Post
                        For the record, I am disappointed Harvey isn't pitching against the Pirates, the team with the best record in baseball. I'd much rather see him pitch that game than in the ASG if both cannot be done.
                        Pretty sure it is 2nd or3rd best if we care to be picky.
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                        • Originally posted by EasilyFound View Post
                          For the record, I am disappointed Harvey isn't pitching against the Pirates, the team with the best record in baseball. I'd much rather see him pitch that game than in the ASG if both cannot be done.
                          Of course, the regular season is much more important than the ASG. I think I remember Seaver, Koosman, and Matlack all pitching in a regular season game on the Sunday before the ASG in an attempt to win the game before the break. I guess it's more important now to pitch in the ASG????

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                          • Of course back then they didn't have innings limits, but be that as it may point taken. Will there be an uproar when he gets shut down again in September?

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                            • My thinking is if you cant pitch Saturday because of an issue in a real game, then you shouldnt pitch Tuesday in an exhibition game. Some will say "well Tuesday would be his throw day anyway". My answer is when you throw a side session its not in front of the whole world in a competitive situation. Big difference.

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                              • Came this close to buying A home pinstripe Harvey jersey at Mo's today. I got the ASG NL BP jersey instead. The Harvey I have years to get, the ASG you better buy it now if you want it, because its this year only obviously. Of course you could ebay it later, but I wanted it in hand. I plan on framing it and hanging it in the cave.
                                unknown brooklyn cabbie " how are the brooks doin"
                                unknown fan "good they got three men on base"
                                unknown brooklyn cabbie "which one?"

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