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  • Originally posted by Strawman View Post
    I kinda of like him more, lining up against Jeff and Sandy and the insane Mets org culture, to be honest!

    His rationale for wanting to train with the team makes pretty good sense. Why do we want him to go rehab quietly anyway?
    If I were a little suspicious I would think he may like life in NYC and other big league cities a little more than PSL. I want him to get better and I believe the Mets (even Sandy and Jeff) want him to get better and there will be less distractions for him and the team down south. I might add I cannot get the song " I fought the law and the law won" out of my head since I read the last post.

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    • Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
      Is it me or is Harvey becoming unlikeable? I don't like reading about athletes in non sports related articles. I really wish he would just go rehab himself ....quietly.... and come back pitch the way he can. All of this other stuff is nothing but a distraction for him. I hope he matures before he realized he wasted a great career.

      On the other side of the coin....He seems to be determined to be a great pitcher. I just hope he doesn't take that for granted.
      I see this ending badly for him in a Met uniform. Either injured, traded, or both but I do not like the beginning of his relationship with NY and the Mets. Just a suspicion, but a scary one for such a POTENTIALLY great pitcher.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by rjsallstars View Post
        If I were a little suspicious I would think he may like life in NYC and other big league cities a little more than PSL. I want him to get better and I believe the Mets (even Sandy and Jeff) want him to get better and there will be less distractions for him and the team down south. I might add I cannot get the song " I fought the law and the law won" out of my head since I read the last post.
        Harvey makes his home in New York. He doesn't have a communicable disease. The rehab facility isn't supposed to be a sanatorium. There is no quarantine. The Wilpons have been intrusive and overreaching in their players personal affairs since Fred started his purges in the late 1980s.

        So what if Harvey wants to be close to home and have a social life? I'm sure that's part of this but not all. As we saw the guy's a real competitor and doesn't hold anything back on the field. I don't doubt he has a strong urge to be surrounded by team culture. His drive for excellence can't be questioned. He doesn't want to be separated from the team or the game. He didn't even want the surgery. He wanted to try to pitch this season. He's fiery. As has been noted many times the Wilpons seem to have a strong aversion to fiery players.

        The Wilpons seem to prefer guys who won't cause them any distractions while they ply what seems their real trade: ransacking the public sector for big handouts. This has ruined baseball in Flushing for generations.


        "The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!

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        • Originally posted by Mongoose View Post
          Harvey makes his home in New York. He doesn't have a communicable disease. The rehab facility isn't supposed to be a sanatorium. There is no quarantine. The Wilpons have been intrusive and overreaching in their players personal affairs since Fred started his purges in the late 1980s.

          So what if Harvey wants to be close to home and have a social life? I'm sure that's part of this but not all. As we saw the guy's a real competitor and doesn't hold anything back on the field. I don't doubt he has a strong urge to be surrounded by team culture. His drive for excellence can't be questioned. He doesn't want to be separated from the team or the game. He didn't even want the surgery. He wanted to try to pitch this season. He's fiery. As has been noted many times the Wilpons seem to have a strong aversion to fiery players.

          The Wilpons seem to prefer guys who won't cause them any distractions while they ply what seems their real trade: ransacking the public sector for big handouts. This has ruined baseball in Flushing for generations.
          Fiery is great. That's why I love terriers, very fiery animal. However, fiery only gets a terrier so far in a fight with a doberman. Harvey is coming off an injury that has ruined many players careers. He really has not earned the right to dictate to anyone yet. I would think he could receive much more individual attention at a team training site, not a big league locker room. There will be times when the big league training staff needs to deal with others on the 25 man roster who actually have a chance to play in that evenings game. Sounds more like the beginning of a power play to me. They usually end bad.

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          • Originally posted by rjsallstars View Post
            Fiery is great. That's why I love terriers, very fiery animal. However, fiery only gets a terrier so far in a fight with a doberman. Harvey is coming off an injury that has ruined many players careers. He really has not earned the right to dictate to anyone yet. I would think he could receive much more individual attention at a team training site, not a big league locker room. There will be times when the big league training staff needs to deal with others on the 25 man roster who actually have a chance to play in that evenings game. Sounds more like the beginning of a power play to me. They usually end bad.
            Actually he has. By signing a major league contract, he is party to the Basic Agreement and uniform players contract, which allows for injured players to rehab with the team. So he has earned the right!

            This "power play" - if Harvey returns healthy - can only end badly for Mets fans, not for Harvey. The team needs to zip it, abide by the contract, listen to a young leader, and get out of the way.
            Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Strawman View Post
              Actually he has. By signing a major league contract, he is party to the Basic Agreement and uniform players contract, which allows for injured players to rehab with the team. So he has earned the right!

              This "power play" - if Harvey returns healthy - can only end badly for Mets fans, not for Harvey. The team needs to zip it, abide by the contract, listen to a young leader, and get out of the way.
              So you have anointed Matt Harvey already? Are we so desperate that He (capital h) now all things? Young leader? The guy with the biggest mouth isn't necessarily a leader.

              Derek Jeter a lock HOF'er with nothing to prove, and can dictate whatever he chooses...rehabbed in Tampa because that's where they rehab. Matt Harvey who is the dictator suddenly tells people where he wants to rehab. Matt Harvey who has proven nothing to nobody.

              I totally disagree with Mongoose..this has nothing to do with Wilpon...nothing. This has everything to do with a young player shutting his unproven mouth.

              You guys are kneeling at the Matt Harvey alter way too quickly. Yes he has shown great potential and can easily be a top pitcher. Right now he is an injured pitcher with his career in question. Shut up rehab and pitch.

              If anyone believes the crap that he wants to be near his team...near Travis d'Arnaud?????? Really???? d"Arnaud.......well if you believe that then I have a bridge to sell you.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by rjsallstars View Post
                I see this ending badly for him in a Met uniform. Either injured, traded, or both but I do not like the beginning of his relationship with NY and the Mets. Just a suspicion, but a scary one for such a POTENTIALLY great pitcher.
                Isn't that kind of like suspecting tomorrow you'll wake up to Israelis and Palestinians fighting, FOX News saying Obama sucks and the country's doomed and Reagan was the best thing since sliced bread, and Jon Stewart being sarcastic?

                As for the Harvey issue itself--I don't see it as a behavioral problem on his part...it sounds like he likes being a big-time pitcher in New York...and who wouldn't love that?

                As long as he has the goods and continues to want to be the best and drives himself--and it sounds like that's the case--I'm OK with him being in non-sports articles...

                There are plenty of New York champions that were arguably just as famous for their off-the-field articles as they were for their on-the-field victories.
                "Ya Gotta Believe!" -Tug McGraw ... "How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life." -James T. Kirk ... "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -Sherlock Holmes ... "It is out of the deepest depth that the highest must come to its height." -Friedrich Nietzsche ... "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
                  So you have anointed Matt Harvey already? Are we so desperate that He (capital h) now all things? Young leader? The guy with the biggest mouth isn't necessarily a leader.

                  Derek Jeter a lock HOF'er with nothing to prove, and can dictate whatever he chooses...rehabbed in Tampa because that's where they rehab. Matt Harvey who is the dictator suddenly tells people where he wants to rehab. Matt Harvey who has proven nothing to nobody.

                  I totally disagree with Mongoose..this has nothing to do with Wilpon...nothing. This has everything to do with a young player shutting his unproven mouth.

                  You guys are kneeling at the Matt Harvey alter way too quickly. Yes he has shown great potential and can easily be a top pitcher. Right now he is an injured pitcher with his career in question. Shut up rehab and pitch.

                  If anyone believes the crap that he wants to be near his team...near Travis d'Arnaud?????? Really???? d"Arnaud.......well if you believe that then I have a bridge to sell you.

                  simply put, Amen!!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Shea Knight View Post
                    Isn't that kind of like suspecting tomorrow you'll wake up to Israelis and Palestinians fighting, FOX News saying Obama sucks and the country's doomed and Reagan was the best thing since sliced bread, and Jon Stewart being sarcastic?

                    As for the Harvey issue itself--I don't see it as a behavioral problem on his part...it sounds like he likes being a big-time pitcher in New York...and who wouldn't love that?

                    As long as he has the goods and continues to want to be the best and drives himself--and it sounds like that's the case--I'm OK with him being in non-sports articles...

                    There are plenty of New York champions that were arguably just as famous for their off-the-field articles as they were for their on-the-field victories.
                    Let him get healthy and pitch like a big time pitcher in New York for a couple of seasons before you anoint him a "Champion".

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by rjsallstars View Post
                      Let him get healthy and pitch like a big time pitcher in New York for a couple of seasons before you anoint him a "Champion".
                      To take a bit from Pauly first:

                      "Matt Harvey who has proven nothing to nobody."

                      I think he's proven a little...key word LITTLE...but a little is still > absolutely nothing.

                      A 1.5 or 2 on a scale of 1 to 10, but still, that's more than 0, to be fair...Harvey isn't an 0-10 pitcher with a 9.55 ERA and no right to speak at all is all I'm saying.

                      He has the right to a (SMALL) opinion or say in things.

                      And I'm not anointing him a champion yet at all, I'm just saying that this sort of attitude CAN work in a big market...and has before.

                      Not that it will, or even that it has for Harvey yet, just that this sort of attitude isn't a character defect in my opinion, as long as it remains in check, and so far, it hasn't crossed the line from fair to foul, as it were.
                      "Ya Gotta Believe!" -Tug McGraw ... "How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life." -James T. Kirk ... "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -Sherlock Holmes ... "It is out of the deepest depth that the highest must come to its height." -Friedrich Nietzsche ... "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet

                      Comment


                      • I'd also say it strikes me as a tad hypocritical of the Mets front office to market Harvey (#HarveyDay and similar hype and promotions, anyone?) so vociferously and then double back on that and take a bit of umbridge when the guy you've been touting as the next great ace of the team *gasp!* grows a bit of an ego in response to that.

                        But then, the Mets front office has really become the MLB equivalent of High School Cutthroat Gossip Girls, whispering and making snide remarks about everyone behind their backs...did it with Reyes, with Beltran, even with Wright...tsk tsk.

                        (And just because I love my Shakespeare--

                        I'm not ready to crown Harvey Henry V just yet, he's not the man to lead us into France--er, Turner Field--and lead "we few, we happy few, we band of brothers" and "warriors for the working-day" to victory at Agincourt--the NLCS--just yet, not by a long shot...but I'll buy him as a young Prince Hal, the jock-ish sort of guy with talent and an ego and STILL A LOT TO LEARN...but someone I'll also legitimately buy has the potential to, like Hal, become Henry V, Shakespeare's King Amongst Kings.)
                        "Ya Gotta Believe!" -Tug McGraw ... "How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life." -James T. Kirk ... "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -Sherlock Holmes ... "It is out of the deepest depth that the highest must come to its height." -Friedrich Nietzsche ... "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by rjsallstars View Post
                          Let him get healthy and pitch like a big time pitcher in New York for a couple of seasons before you anoint him a "Champion".

                          ALERT...long boring Mets history 'lesson'....ALERT

                          1969...Tom Seaver and Jerry Koosman were the best 1-2 punch in the NL. 42 wins. Fighting for 3rd was Gary Gentry and Nolan Ryan, both young guns with rockets for arms. Loads of pitching talent in the minors. Other veteran pitchers to back up the big four. A very good bullpen. A great pitching coach , a beloved manager. The future never looked so good to Mets fans.

                          Gentry, maybe a bit envious of the others popularity, began yapping. After all he started ahead of Ryan in both the NL playoffs game 3, and he pitched a shutout in the WS game 3...thanks to Tommie Agee, of course. He won 13 games in 1969 at the age of 22. Seaver was 25, Koosman was 29. Gentry was touted by some as potentially the best on the staff, better than the 'other' 22 year old, Nolan Ryan. At the WS celebration he told the media the players should be paid to participate in the WS parade.

                          When the Mets had clinched the NL east at Shea, it was Gentry who threw a complete game shutout of the two time defending NL champ St Louis Cardinals, out dueling a 17 game winner named Steve Carlton. At 22, Gentry had the world in his hands.

                          In 1970, Gentry and Seaver pitched back to back one hitters. Gentry did it at Wrigley against the Cubs. The only hit was Hall of Famer Ernie Banks. The next day in Chicago, Seaver did the same thing, another 4-0 win with a one hitter (Mike Compton got the only hit). the next day, Kooz pitched a 6-0 shutout in Philly, gave up 4 hits (boo!) . In 3 days, the Mets threw 3 shutouts, had 32K's , and gave up 6 hits. Seaver was 7-1 by May 14th, and the Mets pitching looked invincible. To me, the 1970 season was the first year, of many, when the Mets really should have finished first.

                          After the 1971 season, the Mets decided that they would trade one of their young 24 year old fireballers who just didn't reach that Seaver or even Koosman level. To Whitey Herzog's dismay, they traded Ryan. Gentry had 1971 stats of 12-11, 3.23 era , threw 8 complete games, pitched 203.1 innings, had 155k's and 82 walks. Ryan a 10-14 record, a 3.97era, 3 complete games, 152 innings, had 137 k's but gave up 116 walks. We all know who they traded, Whitey Herzog be damned. But there were signs that Gentry was more interested in Gentry, than the Mets. In one summer game, he got into a confrontation with Tommie Agee when Tommie misjudged a fly ball...yes the same Agee who saved his butt in the '69 WS.

                          Soon after, Gentry developed arm trouble. When the Mets had Jon Matlack ready to step up to be the number 3, Gentry was expendable. He was traded to Atlanta, injured his elbow and was finished. Gentry won something like 5 games after his 26th birthday.

                          Now, Harvey could be another Tom Seaver. He could be Nolan Ryan. Or he could turn out to be Gary Gentry.

                          Harvey needs to do what the Mets tell him. If they say stay in Florida, then he should stay in Florida. I get the feeling he really is more interested in Manhattan's nightlife right now. I hope I am wrong.
                          Last edited by mandrake; 03-20-2014, 07:58 AM.

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                          • Originally posted by Shea Knight View Post
                            I'd also say it strikes me as a tad hypocritical of the Mets front office to market Harvey (#HarveyDay and similar hype and promotions, anyone?) so vociferously and then double back on that and take a bit of umbridge when the guy you've been touting as the next great ace of the team *gasp!* grows a bit of an ego in response to that.

                            But then, the Mets front office has really become the MLB equivalent of High School Cutthroat Gossip Girls, whispering and making snide remarks about everyone behind their backs...did it with Reyes, with Beltran, even with Wright...tsk tsk.

                            (And just because I love my Shakespeare--

                            I'm not ready to crown Harvey Henry V just yet, he's not the man to lead us into France--er, Turner Field--and lead "we few, we happy few, we band of brothers" and "warriors for the working-day" to victory at Agincourt--the NLCS--just yet, not by a long shot...but I'll buy him as a young Prince Hal, the jock-ish sort of guy with talent and an ego and STILL A LOT TO LEARN...but someone I'll also legitimately buy has the potential to, like Hal, become Henry V, Shakespeare's King Amongst Kings.)
                            Ha - very good Shea Knight!

                            I agree this is just more Mets front office shenanigans - you don't have to anoint or worship Matt Harvey (and I certainly do neither) to think he's within his rights to assert himself, and frankly kind of admire standing up to the Mets corporate culture (which is rancid).

                            I also disagree with those who 1. compare Harvey to Jeter (who cares?!) and 2. say he should do what the Mets tell him - because....that's always worked out so well for players?

                            I'm on board with Harvey doing what's allowed in his contract.
                            Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Strawman View Post
                              I agree this is just more Mets front office shenanigans - you don't have to anoint or worship Matt Harvey (and I certainly do neither) to think he's within his rights to assert himself, and frankly kind of admire standing up to the Mets corporate culture (which is rancid).
                              The rancidness reeks even more with every petty admonishment of Harvey and "leaked" Ike Davis trade rumor. The culture Saldy is spearheading is on that definitely makes me feel uncomfortable as a Met fan.
                              :lightbulb:Definition of a homerun: When the baseball gets hit to a DISTANCE that the fielder cannot get it into homeplate before the batter rounds the bases.

                              Associated Press -- Citi Field's smaller dimensions helped opponents more than the New York Mets.
                              Thanks Sandy Alderson.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by trepye View Post
                                The rancidness reeks even more with every petty admonishment of Harvey and "leaked" Ike Davis trade rumor. The culture Saldy is spearheading is on that definitely makes me feel uncomfortable as a Met fan.
                                trade ike davis? his value right now is about zero after last season. maybe you get a washed up reliever for him if you are lucky.

                                just hope that he bounces back and then maybe trade him after a good start.
                                I now have my own non commercial blog about training for batspeed and power using my training experience in baseball and track and field.

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