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  • #31
    Originally posted by theAmazingMet View Post
    Punkish and stupid is showing up a teammate. The other kid was talked to just as harshly as Wheeler. I would rather a pitcher with a mean streak and a warriors mentality (Bob Gibson, Juan Maracial, Randy Johnson, Curt Schilling, Roger Clemens) than a wilting daisy any day of the week.
    Yeah a warrior's mentality for shooting your own side. A bad episode, but he can grow from it and learn and mature (hopefully). I have to give Alderson credit - he was on top of the situation and didn't sugarcoat it.
    Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.

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    • #32
      The fact that you cited Wheeler's twitter as a reason why he should be considered a risk made me laugh heartily.

      Thank you.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Strawman View Post
        Yeah a warrior's mentality for shooting your own side. A bad episode, but he can grow from it and learn and mature (hopefully). I have to give Alderson credit - he was on top of the situation and didn't sugarcoat it.
        Yeah and maybe the kid who initiated the response will learn not to embarass a teammate.
        unknown brooklyn cabbie " how are the brooks doin"
        unknown fan "good they got three men on base"
        unknown brooklyn cabbie "which one?"

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        • #34
          All that being said, though, if Wheeler is--by your own admission--still "a work in progress," Strawman, you can't say yet that he'll never touch Harvey.

          It DOES seem like you have an anti-Alderson bias...and all I can say about that is...eh?

          I mean, I still think there HAD to have been a way to keep Reyes or Dickey, at least one of the two (though with Dickey's first two starts this year, Alderson may yet prove he dealt him just at the right time...though I have to admit I hope that's not the case, I just like R.A. too much to want him to bottom out like that in order to make Alderson's deal look the savvier, I hope his next start is better) but really--

          In a sense, there was only so much Alderson could so thanks to Wilponzi.

          The Beltran deal made sense at the time, and if Wheeler pays off it'll really be validated...
          I still say there had to be some way of keeping Jose, but if it was a choice between Reyes and Wright, I'm glad they saved the money to sign the latter...
          And then you have the Dickey deal.

          If Syndergaard, D'Arnaud, and Wheeler pan out, Alderson will have given us a pretty good team in resigning Wright, giving us a Harvey/Wheeler/Niese/Syndergaard/#5 Pitcher rotation, an infield which (as long as D'Arnaud performs anywhere near what's expected and Ike doesn't go down the drain) is home grown and pretty good in D'Arnaud/Ike/Murphy/Tejada/Wright...that leaves him free to spend on a good outfield bat or two, or maybe fix the bullpen, and we're back in it, as it seems Philly's starting to deteriorate and Miami crashed and burned before it could even really take off that much...

          That leaves a Nats/Mets/Braves race, and that can only get tighter if Alderson's prospects pay off.

          If not...well, we'd have been in this position anyway, thanks to one of the worst owners in the game.
          "Ya Gotta Believe!" -Tug McGraw ... "How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life." -James T. Kirk ... "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -Sherlock Holmes ... "It is out of the deepest depth that the highest must come to its height." -Friedrich Nietzsche ... "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet

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          • #35
            Matt Harvey versus Michael Young:

            The Mets have the best, smartest fans in baseball.

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            • #36
              ^Aaaaaahhhhhh......that hits the spot!
              "Ya Gotta Believe!" -Tug McGraw ... "How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life." -James T. Kirk ... "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -Sherlock Holmes ... "It is out of the deepest depth that the highest must come to its height." -Friedrich Nietzsche ... "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Shea Knight View Post
                All that being said, though, if Wheeler is--by your own admission--still "a work in progress," Strawman, you can't say yet that he'll never touch Harvey.

                It DOES seem like you have an anti-Alderson bias...and all I can say about that is...eh?

                I mean, I still think there HAD to have been a way to keep Reyes or Dickey, at least one of the two (though with Dickey's first two starts this year, Alderson may yet prove he dealt him just at the right time...though I have to admit I hope that's not the case, I just like R.A. too much to want him to bottom out like that in order to make Alderson's deal look the savvier, I hope his next start is better) but really--

                In a sense, there was only so much Alderson could so thanks to Wilponzi.

                The Beltran deal made sense at the time, and if Wheeler pays off it'll really be validated...
                I still say there had to be some way of keeping Jose, but if it was a choice between Reyes and Wright, I'm glad they saved the money to sign the latter...
                And then you have the Dickey deal.

                If Syndergaard, D'Arnaud, and Wheeler pan out, Alderson will have given us a pretty good team in resigning Wright, giving us a Harvey/Wheeler/Niese/Syndergaard/#5 Pitcher rotation, an infield which (as long as D'Arnaud performs anywhere near what's expected and Ike doesn't go down the drain) is home grown and pretty good in D'Arnaud/Ike/Murphy/Tejada/Wright...that leaves him free to spend on a good outfield bat or two, or maybe fix the bullpen, and we're back in it, as it seems Philly's starting to deteriorate and Miami crashed and burned before it could even really take off that much...

                That leaves a Nats/Mets/Braves race, and that can only get tighter if Alderson's prospects pay off.

                If not...well, we'd have been in this position anyway, thanks to one of the worst owners in the game.
                Well Wheeler struggled again last night - so yeah, work in progress. But he's young.

                Do I have an "anti-Alderson bias" - sure but I wouldn't call it bias. I'd call it judgment. Alderson's simply no the talent evaluator Minaya was, what can I say. That doesn't mean Wheeler won't pan out - or that it didn't make sense to trade for him.

                The choice between Reyes and Wright was a marketing decision, of course, based on the cultural bias of the entertainment audience in question. A baseball decision demanded keeping either 1. both of them (and playing to win) or 2. neither of them (and actually rebuilding).

                The Dickey deal looks pretty good now - until you realize that Dillon Gee is the number 3 starter.
                Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.

                Comment


                • #38
                  I thought this was the Matt Harvey thread??? The other stuff we have endlessly in pretty much a half dozen other threads, just sayin'.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    In case anyone was curious....

                    Most strikeouts through first 12 career starts:

                    1. 109 Hideo Nomo
                    2. 107 Kerry Wood
                    3. 101 Herb Score
                    4. 99 Jose DeLeon
                    5. 93 Dwight Gooden
                    6. 92 Stephen Strasburg
                    7. 89 Matt Harvey
                    8. 86 Mark Prior
                    9. 82 Tom Griffin
                    10. 79 Tim Lincecum
                    10. 79 Orlando Hernandez
                    10. 79 Andy Benes
                    13. 77 Al Leiter
                    13. 77 Felix Hernandez
                    13. 77 Yu Darvish
                    16. 76 Michael Pineda
                    16. 76 Daisuke Matsuzaka
                    18. 75 Dontrelle Willis
                    18. 75 Tim Hudson
                    20. 74 Lynn McGlothen

                    This list goes back to 1916. Kind of an interesting mix of pitchers. Of the twenty pitchers listed, only Dontrelle Willis allowed fewer earned runs than Harvey (17 for Willis, 19 for Harvey)
                    My top 10 players:

                    1. Babe Ruth
                    2. Barry Bonds
                    3. Ty Cobb
                    4. Ted Williams
                    5. Willie Mays
                    6. Alex Rodriguez
                    7. Hank Aaron
                    8. Honus Wagner
                    9. Lou Gehrig
                    10. Mickey Mantle

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post
                      In case anyone was curious....

                      Most strikeouts through first 12 career starts:

                      1. 109 Hideo Nomo
                      2. 107 Kerry Wood
                      3. 101 Herb Score
                      4. 99 Jose DeLeon
                      5. 93 Dwight Gooden
                      6. 92 Stephen Strasburg
                      7. 89 Matt Harvey
                      8. 86 Mark Prior
                      9. 82 Tom Griffin
                      10. 79 Tim Lincecum
                      10. 79 Orlando Hernandez
                      10. 79 Andy Benes
                      13. 77 Al Leiter
                      13. 77 Felix Hernandez
                      13. 77 Yu Darvish
                      16. 76 Michael Pineda
                      16. 76 Daisuke Matsuzaka
                      18. 75 Dontrelle Willis
                      18. 75 Tim Hudson
                      20. 74 Lynn McGlothen

                      This list goes back to 1916. Kind of an interesting mix of pitchers. Of the twenty pitchers listed, only Dontrelle Willis allowed fewer earned runs than Harvey (17 for Willis, 19 for Harvey)
                      VERY interesting list.....of the 20 pitchers, how many ended up in Cooperstown???? How many ended up as huge disappointments???

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by mandrake View Post
                        VERY interesting list.....of the 20 pitchers, how many ended up in Cooperstown???? How many ended up as huge disappointments???
                        How many ended up being dependable pitchers for quite a while? The majority. No one is expecting Harvey to be a Hall of Famer, but to expect him to be a reliable pitcher for many seasons isn't a radical notion.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Cool list. I would have thought Feller was there. Otherwise it is interesting but considering the enormous jump in overall K rates in the last decade and even the last few it skews towards the present so I wouldn't make too much of it.

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                          • #43
                            Correct me if I'm wrong but there are zero HOF'ers on that list. No Nolan Ryans, no Steve Carltons. I wonder how much of a coincidence that is.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Mr. Met View Post
                              Correct me if I'm wrong but there are zero HOF'ers on that list. No Nolan Ryans, no Steve Carltons. I wonder how much of a coincidence that is.
                              EXACTLY ! I personally think Harvey could become a great pitcher and have a fantastic career ! However, this list would not be the list I would like to see him on !

                              Where is Ryan, Carlton, Marichal, Koufax, Drysdale, Seaver, Guidry, Feller, Gibson,Verlander, Clemens, Maddux, etc etc etc.

                              Remember when Kerry Wood and Mark Prior were going to lead the Cubs to the promised land ?:choke:

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by mandrake View Post
                                EXACTLY ! I personally think Harvey could become a great pitcher and have a fantastic career ! However, this list would not be the list I would like to see him on !
                                Serious question for you and other Mets fans: Would you sign up for a few years of Gooden-esque or Lincecum-esque peak performance knowing that he wouldn't provide much value past his late 20's?
                                My top 10 players:

                                1. Babe Ruth
                                2. Barry Bonds
                                3. Ty Cobb
                                4. Ted Williams
                                5. Willie Mays
                                6. Alex Rodriguez
                                7. Hank Aaron
                                8. Honus Wagner
                                9. Lou Gehrig
                                10. Mickey Mantle

                                Comment

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