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  • Bill James Projections has Matt Harvey posting the third-best ERA in the National League in 2016 at 2.76, behind only Clayton Kershaw (2.31) and Jose Fernandez (2.58).
    The Mets have the best, smartest fans in baseball.

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    • Harvey definitely looked a lot better in his start yesterday. His velocity seems to be slightly down, but he was locating his pitches.

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      • Matt Harvey has lived the life of a star — but will he ever be one?

        By Mike Vaccaro May 20, 2016 | 12:08am

        Matt Harvey has spent a lot of the past three years reaping the rewards of stardom in New York City — the best tables, the best seats, the best nickname, the adoration, the adulation. That’s the easy part. That’s the fun part.

        This is the hard part:

        Earning the fame. Earning the status. Earning the tumult. And earning the windfall that, in the recesses of his mind, he’s probably already spent.

        The hardest part comes now. The hardest part comes in a rush, in a blur, as each passing start brings more misery, more mystery, and less mastery than the time before. This time it was 2 ²/₃ innings, and six earned runs, and nine hits — not a lot of bloopers and bleeders among them, either, the Mets surrendering to the Nationals 9-1 and Harvey waving the white flag furiously.

        “I’m not happy about it,” Harvey said quietly much later, when the rest of his stricken teammates joined him in the clubhouse. “Nobody is. But my job is to go out there and keep trying to figure this thing out.”

        Yeah, about that: Terry Collins, who’s seen a thing or three in this game, who’s seen a prospect or three stub a toe while cruising the passing lane to stardom, can speak pretty frankly about what awaits Harvey as he tries to figure it out.

        “There are two kinds of people in this game,” Collins said. “Those who have been humbled and those who will be.”

        And players like Harvey, who didn’t have to struggle much on the way up, who have known only success — and the spoils that come along with it? “It’s scary when you don’t know how to fix some things,” he said, “because you’ve never had to.”

        Yes. That’s where Harvey is now. That’s what he faces now. One of the eternal truths of baseball is this: Even the greatest hitters go 1-for-30 every now and again, even the greatest pitchers take a beating now and again.

        Six days shy of 40 years from when Harvey absorbed this assault, Tom Seaver had what was probably the worst outing of his career at Veterans Stadium: six innings, seven runs, three walks and 15 — 15! — base hits. Of course, Seaver had three Cy Youngs on his shelf by then and 172 major-league victories to his credit.

        Harvey’s career always has been treated on spec, his reputation, to date, still outpacing his results. Give it time, we always say. He’ll catch up. Too much stuff in that right arm not to. Too much talent. Except the lifetime record is 28-24. The lifetime ERA is still an impressive 2.85, but that’s already risen by more than a quarter of a run this year in just nine starts.

        Baseball is a humbling game anyway. But you wonder, now, if Harvey didn’t invite much of his present predicament on himself by taunting karma. He missed the Mets’ mandatory workout before the start of last year’s playoffs because he “lost track of time.” This at the end of a season when he petulantly chafed at the Mets’ attempts to keep his innings at a manageable pace — and then allowed his agent to start a late-season tempest when he accused the team of abusing him.

        And look, while we’re at it, let’s identify one of the 800-pound elephants in the room: Harvey no longer remotely resembles the lithe, elite athlete he was in 2013. The Mets did him no favors re-broadcasting a Mets-Yankees game from ’13 on SNY on Monday night’s off-night; all you need is a glimpse of what Harvey looked like then, and what he looks like now, to see a stark difference.

        “He’s 27 years old,” one member of the organization mused recently. “He’s a professional athlete, who makes his living — and wants to make $200 million — by being an athlete. Does he look like an elite professional athlete to you?”

        Can any of those things be assigned the blame of sending Harvey into the free fall that started in Kansas City on opening night and hasn’t yet subsided, thought it did grow ever more precipitous Thursday? Pitching is a genuine mystery. Stuff comes, stuff goes. Fastballs pop one night, get popped five nights later.

        Maybe he needs a two-week vacation on the DL. Maybe he needs to just skip a start — and given his next start is supposed to be against these Nats, that’s not a terrible idea. The Mets could still make a run without Harvey, but it was never in the plan for them to do it that way. They need him to be right. They need him to figure it out. The humbling has been profound, and it has been thorough. It needn’t be a full-blown humiliation.

        But it’s sure headed that way.
        ..........
        My top 10 players:

        1. Babe Ruth
        2. Barry Bonds
        3. Ty Cobb
        4. Ted Williams
        5. Willie Mays
        6. Alex Rodriguez
        7. Hank Aaron
        8. Honus Wagner
        9. Lou Gehrig
        10. Mickey Mantle

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        • Originally posted by GiambiJuice View Post
          ..........
          This has always been my problem with the whole "Harvey Thing". He was given his stardom after a handful of starts. You can see the promise but he never really put it all together, yet he was all over the place in newspapers, and media in general. He was Derek Jeter without doing anything to warrant it.

          Now is that his fault? Probably not.


          Matt Harvey was a media star, but NEVER a baseball star. He was a guy that showed a lot of potential to be one, but to be a star I think you should have to at least pitch a full season. 33-34 Starts 200 innings of dominance...etc etc.. He hasn't done it yet, and until he does - he will be a guy with potential that isn't realized.

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          • Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
            This has always been my problem with the whole "Harvey Thing". He was given his stardom after a handful of starts. You can see the promise but he never really put it all together, yet he was all over the place in newspapers, and media in general. He was Derek Jeter without doing anything to warrant it.

            Now is that his fault? Probably not.


            Matt Harvey was a media star, but NEVER a baseball star. He was a guy that showed a lot of potential to be one, but to be a star I think you should have to at least pitch a full season. 33-34 Starts 200 innings of dominance...etc etc.. He hasn't done it yet, and until he does - he will be a guy with potential that isn't realized.
            Harvey had a 140-145 ERA+ over his first 65 starts or so with FANTASTIC peripherals. That isn't a case of a guy who had a few good starts and we didn't know if he was legit. You don't have 65 starts like that with those peripherals and not be for real. He was averaging over 5 WAR per 32 starts before this season. That is a superstar. If all he did was repeat 2013 +2015 Harvey 6x - he'd be a HOFer. But anybody who expected Tom Seaver #2 was clearly delusional to begin with. One should never expect the once-in-a-generation player to be there now. He is clearly hurt or dealing with mechanics issues now.
            Last edited by Bothrops Atrox; 05-22-2016, 07:55 AM.
            1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

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            The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
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            • Originally posted by Bothrops Atrox View Post
              Harvey had a 140-145 ERA+ over his first 65 starts or so with FANTASTIC peripherals. That isn't a case of a guy who had a few good starts and we didn't know if he was legit. You don't have 65 starts like that with those peripherals and not be for real. He was averaging over 5 WAR per 32 starts before this season. That is a superstar. If all he did was repeat 2013 +2015 Harvey 6x - he'd be a HOFer. But anybody who expected Tom Seaver #2 was clearly delusional to begin with. One should never expect the once-in-a-generation player to be there now. He is clearly hurt or dealing with mechanics issues now.
              Yes that all sounds terrific until you realize that those 65 starts were over 4 seasons. Again - let him pitch a full season and dominate before we start getting his plaque ready.

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              • Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
                Yes that all sounds terrific until you realize that those 65 starts were over 4 seasons. Again - let him pitch a full season and dominate before we start getting his plaque ready.
                Almost all of those starts were in two almost full seasons. Both of which were EXTREMELY good seasons for a guy his age with the peripherals to match. If he doesn't make it - it will be because of injury or mechanics - not because he "never had it" or was never "good enough".
                Last edited by Bothrops Atrox; 05-22-2016, 04:14 PM.
                1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

                1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

                1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014 2015


                The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
                The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

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                • Originally posted by Bothrops Atrox View Post
                  Almost all of those starts were in two almost full seasons. Both of which were EXTREMELY good seasons for a guy his age with the peripherals to match. If he doesn't make it - it will be because of injury or mechanics - not because he "never had it" or was never "good enough".
                  "Almost".

                  He was on his way, but he never got there in my opinion.

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                  • He had a bad start and that is LAME....

                    He scuttles out right afterwards and that is PATHETIC!

                    As someone who grew up in the tristate area he should know better..... Harvey won't live that one down. He could get away with that in Dallas.... Not here, he will rightfully get bashed for that act of COWARDICE.
                    :lightbulb:Definition of a homerun: When the baseball gets hit to a DISTANCE that the fielder cannot get it into homeplate before the batter rounds the bases.

                    Associated Press -- Citi Field's smaller dimensions helped opponents more than the New York Mets.
                    Thanks Sandy Alderson.

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                    • 1. It was a bad move,

                      2. He should've known better,

                      3. I don't care, and I'm willing to bet the Mets and Harvey don't either--

                      When your ERA's 6.08, it's batters and not reporters teeing off at will that matter. Not excusing him, just saying...on the long, long list of reasons to be worried about Harvey right now...I YEARN for the days when a PR faux pas (or Monday Night Football party?) was of concern relative to his play.
                      "Ya Gotta Believe!" -Tug McGraw ... "How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life." -James T. Kirk ... "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -Sherlock Holmes ... "It is out of the deepest depth that the highest must come to its height." -Friedrich Nietzsche ... "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet

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                      • 1. It was a bad move,

                        2. He should've known better,

                        3. I don't care, and I'm willing to bet the Mets and Harvey don't either--

                        When your ERA's 6.08, it's batters and not reporters teeing off at will that matter. Not excusing him, just saying...on the long, long list of reasons to be worried about Harvey right now...I YEARN for the days when a PR faux pas (or Monday Night Football party?) was of concern relative to his play.
                        "Ya Gotta Believe!" -Tug McGraw ... "How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life." -James T. Kirk ... "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -Sherlock Holmes ... "It is out of the deepest depth that the highest must come to its height." -Friedrich Nietzsche ... "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet

                        Comment


                        • While Harvey's slump is disappointing,it is somewhat humorous how people are seriously thinking this is 'it' for his career. Just as Daniel Murphy's high slash line will not last forever, this slump will not last forever. The Steve Blasses of the world are very rare. Harvey may never again be the pitcher we saw a few years ago, but he also won't be this pitcher into the future, either. He'll probably end up one of those guys who wins 10-15 games a year with a 3.50-3.90 ERA for the next 10 years, with a couple All-Star quality seasons thrown in. A Ron Darling or Sid Fernandez or something.

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                          • Originally posted by Shea Knight View Post
                            1. It was a bad move,

                            2. He should've known better,

                            3. I don't care, and I'm willing to bet the Mets and Harvey don't either--

                            When your ERA's 6.08, it's batters and not reporters teeing off at will that matter. Not excusing him, just saying...on the long, long list of reasons to be worried about Harvey right now...I YEARN for the days when a PR faux pas (or Monday Night Football party?) was of concern relative to his play.
                            It shows how fragile his ego is. I hope he can come back and be great, but at this point, he's looking like a bust largely due to his mental fragility. Not all pitchers with great stuff go on to be great pitchers.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Cowtipper View Post
                              While Harvey's slump is disappointing,it is somewhat humorous how people are seriously thinking this is 'it' for his career. Just as Daniel Murphy's high slash line will not last forever, this slump will not last forever. The Steve Blasses of the world are very rare. Harvey may never again be the pitcher we saw a few years ago, but he also won't be this pitcher into the future, either. He'll probably end up one of those guys who wins 10-15 games a year with a 3.50-3.90 ERA for the next 10 years, with a couple All-Star quality seasons thrown in. A Ron Darling or Sid Fernandez or something.
                              He'll probably have a career along the line of A.J. Burnett. He reminds me a lot of him in terms of physical ability and mental fragility.

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                              • We still don't know what Matt Harvey is going to be.

                                Maybe it is it right now...maybe he wins 4 Cy Youngs in the next 5 years. We don't know.

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