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  • Originally posted by jjpm74 View Post
    It's really not all gloom and doom. Verrett has to tow the line for 4-5 starts until Wheeler can be called up. It's not like Harvey was good. All Verrett has to do is pitch to an ERA under 5.00 to be as effective or not as ineffective as Harvey was. That's assuming Harvey doesn't go with option A which has him back in 2 starts.

    Plus: Syndergaard, deGrom, Matz, Colon.
    Gotta think of more than this year, though. Syndergaard, deGrom, Matz and Wheeler are young arms, which means they are basically inherently suspect. Two of them have bone spurs, Matz has a history of injury already. Colon is ancient and obese and could falter at any time. Wheeler coming off Tommy John surgery might or might not rebound. We see what happens when pitchers have TJ ... look at Harvey. Last year was good, but it sure wasn't 2013.

    In my view, these are the viable minor league options they have right now:

    Rafael Montero -- I harp on this guy. They should really give him like 15 starts in a row. An appearance here and there proves nothing. If he fails after 15 starts, then get rid of him. But come on, give him a real chance. Though he might be hurt now. I don't remember.

    Gabriel Ynoa
    Robert Gsellman

    I like Verrett and think he could develop into a consistent Jon Niese/Dillon Gee++. Like if Niese gave us his 2012 campaign over and over again.

    Ynoa has the greatest chance of becoming something *real*. Like an All-Star, but after the Great Purge of 2015, their minor league corps became a shell. As their young stars drop off the radar/become free agents/get traded, they have little to replace them with and the team will fall fast. He's 23 and is 9-3 with a 3.92 ERA on a team that has a 5.51 ERA (the 51s).

    Who else do they have at Triple-A? Duane Below? Heck, maybe they should try him. They get a diamond in the rough each year and they haven't found one this year yet. Everyone is basically performing as expected (or worse). Sean Gilmartin is starting at Triple-A. Then you have to dip down to Double-A. Rainy Lara? He's 25 and at Double-A and has struggled at Triple-A. Andrew Barbosa? His Double-A ERA is below 3, but he's 28.
    Last edited by Cowtipper; 07-08-2016, 05:24 AM.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Shea Knight View Post
      ^I agree, I'm not too concerned about the rotation. Verrett's honestly on par with Harvey this year, and if Wheeler comes back we'll have the chance to upgrade within the system.
      NOW your not too concerned about the rotation? When I was advocating to trade Harvey in December you were disagreeing with me in a big way saying "we have to keep this pitching together". Now that you have no choice in the matter your not concerned. You found a way to get around the concern.

      What you are saying today is exactly what I was saying 8 months ago. I figured Noah/deGrom/Matz/Colon/Verrett was enough pitching with Wheeler coming back mid summer. The only difference now is the Mets have zero to show for their loss of Harvey.

      I also must admit its a little astonishing how fast you have now dismissed Harvey as "Verrett is on par with Harvey". For the past 3 years 50% of your posts were about Matt Harvey, and when he pitched you type post after post. Now.....eh he is gone - Wheeler would be an upgrade.
      Last edited by Paulypal; 07-08-2016, 08:33 AM.

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      • There is no sugarcoating. This is a big bump in the road. Harvey had it all. He was headed for stardom.

        Before Mets fans start dismissing his importance, and start with the Syndergaard/Matz/deGrom/Wheeler Cooperstown rotation, any or all of them could very easily follow Harvey into serious arm trouble.

        Before Mets fans start counting WS trophies, the Braves had a great staff, finished first about 15 times, and won ONCE.
        The incredible NY Mets staff of the early 1970's, who collectively won well over 1,000 games in their careers - never won another WS trophy- even on other teams (except reliever Tug McGraw).

        Matt Harvey and his agent were RIGHT. The Nationals were right about Strasberg , better to lose to the Giants in the playoffs than to lose their ace forever.

        Jacob deGrom has had TJ surgery in Oct 2010. Syndergaard and Matz have bone spurs in their elbows. deGrom earns $607.000 Noah $535,375 Matz $515,750. Obviously I am not one of those three, but IF I were, I would quietly take my agent to the best doctor(s) and sit down and discuss what is the very best thing for me to do in order to get that huge Kershaw type contract.

        I would think Harvey and Boras are regretting not shutting down last year and if fans complained, then ask the Mets to send me to LA , SF or Anaheim to pay me $$$$.

        Imagine that...fans who were heaping praise over Harvey now think he can just be replaced , not only by Wheeler who is also coming off surgery ( and who has suffered 'setbacks' in his recovery) but now he can just come up and we don't need Harvey. Hey, if Wheeler flops , the Mets have Logan Verrett ! What a knee slapper.

        Damn, Tom Seaver was 11-11 in 1974 and of course there were tons of .500 pitchers who could have replaced him ! Right? (note Seaver then won the 1975 Cy Young so I guess he wasn't that easy to replace)

        When one becomes an ex-Met, or an injured Met, they get photoshopped out of the picture quicker than the Kremlin used to do.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by jjpm74 View Post
          It's really not all gloom and doom. Verrett has to tow the line for 4-5 starts until Wheeler can be called up. It's not like Harvey was good. All Verrett has to do is pitch to an ERA under 5.00 to be as effective or not as ineffective as Harvey was. That's assuming Harvey doesn't go with option A which has him back in 2 starts.

          Plus: Syndergaard, deGrom, Matz, Colon.
          Wheeler??? This Wheeler?

          Terry Collins....

          “We talked in spring training, we thought this week he would have been doing his final (rehab) start to join us after the break,” Terry Collins said. “Now we have no idea when he’s coming. Yeah, it’s another huge setback. We went into spring training, we said, ‘Woah, what a dynamic rotation this is going to be, and we get Zack back it’s even going to be better.’ Now we don’t know when he’s coming back and most likely we may not have Harvey for a while. It’s been tough.”

          Or this Wheeler:

          GM Sandy Alderson said Thursday. “He may do some slope work over this weekend. But at this point, there’s really no way to project when he’d be ready to pitch at the major-league level.”


          So glad that you know that Wheeler will be called up in 4-5 starts ! Please tell Sandy and Terry, because there are some reports that Wheeler may not make it back in 2016.



          http://nypost.com/2016/07/07/mets-wi...ler-a-mystery/ Wheeler a mystery?????? You don't say....on baseball fever it was reported that Wheeler will be back in 4-5 starts.

          Comment


          • That's why its called a career. Harvey may be done or get yet another comeback player of the year award. No one knows if playoff work damaged him or not. If it did I'm assuming the Marlins won't pitch Fernandez in the playoffs should they make it this year. Too much risk. Strasburg didn't pitch in the 2012 playoffs. Did that help him? Since then he's been on the DL once in 2013, twice in 2015 and once so far in 2016.

            Only a fool counts on future earnings. One thing the Mets did correctly was not extending him to buy out his arbitration years, oh around the '13 ASG.
            Last edited by LI METS FAN; 07-08-2016, 08:42 AM. Reason: Strasburg DL stats

            Comment


            • Originally posted by mandrake View Post
              There is no sugarcoating. This is a big bump in the road. Harvey had it all. He was headed for stardom.

              Before Mets fans start dismissing his importance, and start with the Syndergaard/Matz/deGrom/Wheeler Cooperstown rotation, any or all of them could very easily follow Harvey into serious arm trouble.

              Before Mets fans start counting WS trophies, the Braves had a great staff, finished first about 15 times, and won ONCE.
              The incredible NY Mets staff of the early 1970's, who collectively won well over 1,000 games in their careers - never won another WS trophy- even on other teams (except reliever Tug McGraw).

              Matt Harvey and his agent were RIGHT. The Nationals were right about Strasberg , better to lose to the Giants in the playoffs than to lose their ace forever.

              Jacob deGrom has had TJ surgery in Oct 2010. Syndergaard and Matz have bone spurs in their elbows. deGrom earns $607.000 Noah $535,375 Matz $515,750. Obviously I am not one of those three, but IF I were, I would quietly take my agent to the best doctor(s) and sit down and discuss what is the very best thing for me to do in order to get that huge Kershaw type contract.

              I would think Harvey and Boras are regretting not shutting down last year and if fans complained, then ask the Mets to send me to LA , SF or Anaheim to pay me $$$$.

              Imagine that...fans who were heaping praise over Harvey now think he can just be replaced , not only by Wheeler who is also coming off surgery ( and who has suffered 'setbacks' in his recovery) but now he can just come up and we don't need Harvey. Hey, if Wheeler flops , the Mets have Logan Verrett ! What a knee slapper.

              Damn, Tom Seaver was 11-11 in 1974 and of course there were tons of .500 pitchers who could have replaced him ! Right? (note Seaver then won the 1975 Cy Young so I guess he wasn't that easy to replace)

              When one becomes an ex-Met, or an injured Met, they get photoshopped out of the picture quicker than the Kremlin used to do.
              Harvey had the arm to be a star, but between the ears he needs a lot of work.

              I never did nor did I count on him to be a star. Too many people gave him that star because they were so desperate for a Met star that they gave it to him based upon potential. He had huge potential.

              No doubt that every pitcher is at risk for a career altering injury. The problem is they can sit down with all the doctors and agents they want. They still wont know. It would still all just be speculation. Just like if Harvey pitching in the playoffs caused TOS - we have no clue.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
                Harvey had the arm to be a star, but between the ears he needs a lot of work.

                I never did nor did I count on him to be a star. Too many people gave him that star because they were so desperate for a Met star that they gave it to him based upon potential. He had huge potential.

                No doubt that every pitcher is at risk for a career altering injury. The problem is they can sit down with all the doctors and agents they want. They still wont know. It would still all just be speculation. Just like if Harvey pitching in the playoffs caused TOS - we have no clue.
                This is what sports has become in 2016. Harvey should have ONLY been interested in Harvey. Matz in Matz. Noah in Noah. All of that so called 'team loyalty' only exists in the minds of fans who wear make believe jerseys and pretend they are part of the team.

                Everything in life is based on probability. Insurance companies collect and pay out billions based on probability. Why would anyone risk injury for a $500K salary if they potentially lose that $100 million dollar pay day.

                Ask the Oklahoma City basketball fans about loyalty - yet they stole a team from Seattle. Michael Jordan said he would have never called up Bird and Magic and tried to create a super team. In today's world, it's upside down.

                As for sitting with agents and doctors, of course there aren't guarantees. However, if I was Matz I would shut it down for the season the very next time my elbow hurts, and I could not give a crap about a fool up in the stands wearing my jersey. Matz or Noah shouldn't risk anything, unless of course they had some guaranteed mega salary.

                Kershaw is hurt, but he is set for life. Harvey is hurt and he could be done. Some Mets fans who cheered for him will probably turn on him, (very long history of that on baseball fever).... maybe sad because they can't wear a Dark Knight costume for a while. In this day and age, a pitcher only should be loyal to himself and his family and his financial security. To hell with the current/changeable laundry.

                I am willing to bet that another NY Mets starter goes on the DL in 2016 ? Any takers?

                I am still waiting for some proof by 'experts' on baseball fever ( many of whom never tried a glove on in their life) that Wheeler is coming up in 4-5 starts.:stupidme:

                Comment


                • Originally posted by LI METS FAN View Post
                  That's why its called a career. Harvey may be done or get yet another comeback player of the year award. No one knows if playoff work damaged him or not. If it did I'm assuming the Marlins won't pitch Fernandez in the playoffs should they make it this year. Too much risk. Strasburg didn't pitch in the 2012 playoffs. Did that help him? Since then he's been on the DL once in 2013, twice in 2015 and once so far in 2016.

                  Only a fool counts on future earnings. One thing the Mets did correctly was not extending him to buy out his arbitration years, oh around the '13 ASG.

                  There is one very big winner....Strasburg !!!! Stephen Strasburg signed a 7 year / $175,000,000 contract with the Washington Nationals, including $175,000,000 guaranteed, and an annual average salary of $25,000,000. In 2016, Strasburg will earn a base salary of $10,400,000. Strasburg has a cap hit of $10,400,000. http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/washingto...hen-strasburg/

                  It is obvious, that the path chosen by Strasburg made him very wealthy ! Who cares about the 2012 playoffs when one has $175 million to bankroll ?

                  Would you like to answer the silly question "did that help him"? He has 175 million answers for you. :flow::flow::flow::flow::flow:

                  Now can you answer why Matz or Syndergaard should throw with any pain with bone spurs on the elbow? I'm thinking both want Kershaw /Strasburg money.

                  As for Miami and Fernandez, he is getting only $2,800,000 so it is HIS decision, not the Marlins. Of course, he is getting paid more than Matz, Noah,and deGromm together, but if he wants Strasburg money, he has to make decisions. Any excellent young pitcher should be thinking "I could be the next Harvey".

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
                    NOW your not too concerned about the rotation? When I was advocating to trade Harvey in December you were disagreeing with me in a big way saying "we have to keep this pitching together". Now that you have no choice in the matter your not concerned. You found a way to get around the concern.

                    What you are saying today is exactly what I was saying 8 months ago. I figured Noah/deGrom/Matz/Colon/Verrett was enough pitching with Wheeler coming back mid summer. The only difference now is the Mets have zero to show for their loss of Harvey.

                    I also must admit its a little astonishing how fast you have now dismissed Harvey as "Verrett is on par with Harvey". For the past 3 years 50% of your posts were about Matt Harvey, and when he pitched you type post after post. Now.....eh he is gone - Wheeler would be an upgrade.
                    Hey, I love Harvey, but that doesn't mean I view the world through rose-tinted glasses...or a Batman mask, if you will. THIS YEAR Harvey has been on par with Verrett, excepting a couple really good starts, there's no getting away from that. I still hope he comes back and is Matt Harvey again (though the prospects on that don't look good) and he's still my sentimental favorite of that staff, but facts are facts--he IS gone for 2016, and Wheeler probably WOULD be an upgrade at this point.

                    Well, Noah/deGrom/Matz/Colon/Verrett wasn't looking like it'd have been enough to win the division during the Mets' offensive blackout. I stand by my not wanting to trade Harvey post-2015, not knowing he was about to be 2016 Harvey, with every reason to expect he'd be the 2015 model or thereabouts again, in which case, we WOULD be leading the division right now, the lack of vintage Harvey is the difference right now between the division lead and being 3 games back with the Wild Card in tow. Not expecting Harvey to get TOS, I stand by rolling with him and re-signing Cespedes and making 2016 a "do over" of 2015, and then trading Harvey if necessary to replace Cespdes if he left/for another bat/etc. A 2016 Harvey at 2015 levels, if we we couldn't re-sign him, would still have gotten a fair bit back, and we'd have been "all in" for 2016 after just missing last year.

                    That said, it'll be interesting what the Mets do going forward if Nimmo, Flores, and d'Arnaud keep hitting, and Conforto comes back and returns to form. The Mets' lineup isn't the weak thing it was in May to mid-June, and aside from Loney, that's mostly internal improvement (not counting Reyes, who's only been here a few games, and is likely redundant with Flores there anyway.)
                    "Ya Gotta Believe!" -Tug McGraw ... "How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life." -James T. Kirk ... "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -Sherlock Holmes ... "It is out of the deepest depth that the highest must come to its height." -Friedrich Nietzsche ... "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
                      NOW your not too concerned about the rotation? When I was advocating to trade Harvey in December you were disagreeing with me in a big way saying "we have to keep this pitching together". Now that you have no choice in the matter your not concerned. You found a way to get around the concern.

                      What you are saying today is exactly what I was saying 8 months ago. I figured Noah/deGrom/Matz/Colon/Verrett was enough pitching with Wheeler coming back mid summer. The only difference now is the Mets have zero to show for their loss of Harvey.

                      I also must admit its a little astonishing how fast you have now dismissed Harvey as "Verrett is on par with Harvey". For the past 3 years 50% of your posts were about Matt Harvey, and when he pitched you type post after post. Now.....eh he is gone - Wheeler would be an upgrade.
                      Hey, I love Harvey, but that doesn't mean I view the world through rose-tinted glasses...or a Batman mask, if you will. THIS YEAR Harvey has been on par with Verrett, excepting a couple really good starts, there's no getting away from that. I still hope he comes back and is Matt Harvey again (though the prospects on that don't look good) and he's still my sentimental favorite of that staff, but facts are facts--he IS gone for 2016, and Wheeler probably WOULD be an upgrade at this point.

                      Well, Noah/deGrom/Matz/Colon/Verrett wasn't looking like it'd have been enough to win the division during the Mets' offensive blackout. I stand by my not wanting to trade Harvey post-2015, not knowing he was about to be 2016 Harvey, with every reason to expect he'd be the 2015 model or thereabouts again, in which case, we WOULD be leading the division right now, the lack of vintage Harvey is the difference right now between the division lead and being 3 games back with the Wild Card in tow. Not expecting Harvey to get TOS, I stand by rolling with him and re-signing Cespedes and making 2016 a "do over" of 2015, and then trading Harvey if necessary to replace Cespdes if he left/for another bat/etc. A 2016 Harvey at 2015 levels, if we we couldn't re-sign him, would still have gotten a fair bit back, and we'd have been "all in" for 2016 after just missing last year.

                      That said, it'll be interesting what the Mets do going forward if Nimmo, Flores, and d'Arnaud keep hitting, and Conforto comes back and returns to form. The Mets' lineup isn't the weak thing it was in May to mid-June, and aside from Loney, that's mostly internal improvement (not counting Reyes, who's only been here a few games, and is likely redundant with Flores there anyway.)
                      "Ya Gotta Believe!" -Tug McGraw ... "How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life." -James T. Kirk ... "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -Sherlock Holmes ... "It is out of the deepest depth that the highest must come to its height." -Friedrich Nietzsche ... "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by mandrake View Post
                        Imagine that...fans who were heaping praise over Harvey now think he can just be replaced , not only by Wheeler who is also coming off surgery ( and who has suffered 'setbacks' in his recovery) but now he can just come up and we don't need Harvey. Hey, if Wheeler flops , the Mets have Logan Verrett ! What a knee slapper.

                        Damn, Tom Seaver was 11-11 in 1974 and of course there were tons of .500 pitchers who could have replaced him ! Right? (note Seaver then won the 1975 Cy Young so I guess he wasn't that easy to replace)

                        When one becomes an ex-Met, or an injured Met, they get photoshopped out of the picture quicker than the Kremlin used to do.
                        1. He's not an ex-Met yet, and 2. Much as I beat the Harvey drum here, YES, this year, excepting a couple starts, he HAS been on par with Logan Verrett performance-wise. Does that mean Harvey the player is on par with Logan Verrett? Absolutely not. But the 2016 model, which turns out to be a damaged model, has been (which holds the key to the answer right there--on par this year, but only because he's been damaged, a Harvey in full Harvey Mode and it's no contest who anybody'd take there.)

                        Any Met fan Photoshopping him out of the Mets' recent resurgence would be nuts, but much as I wish it were otherwise, he didn't have a good year...long-term it could be a huge loss, but for just the next few months, it should survivable with the parts we have (assuming someone ELSE doesn't suffer a catastrophic breakdown.)
                        "Ya Gotta Believe!" -Tug McGraw ... "How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life." -James T. Kirk ... "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -Sherlock Holmes ... "It is out of the deepest depth that the highest must come to its height." -Friedrich Nietzsche ... "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by mandrake View Post
                          There is one very big winner....Strasburg !!!! Stephen Strasburg signed a 7 year / $175,000,000 contract with the Washington Nationals, including $175,000,000 guaranteed, and an annual average salary of $25,000,000. In 2016, Strasburg will earn a base salary of $10,400,000. Strasburg has a cap hit of $10,400,000. http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/washingto...hen-strasburg/

                          It is obvious, that the path chosen by Strasburg made him very wealthy ! Who cares about the 2012 playoffs when one has $175 million to bankroll ?

                          Would you like to answer the silly question "did that help him"? He has 175 million answers for you. :flow::flow::flow::flow::flow:

                          Now can you answer why Matz or Syndergaard should throw with any pain with bone spurs on the elbow? I'm thinking both want Kershaw /Strasburg money.

                          As for Miami and Fernandez, he is getting only $2,800,000 so it is HIS decision, not the Marlins. Of course, he is getting paid more than Matz, Noah,and deGromm together, but if he wants Strasburg money, he has to make decisions. Any excellent young pitcher should be thinking "I could be the next Harvey".
                          Am I misunderstanding what you are saying or do you actually believe that 3 1/2 YEARS after the 2012 playoffs, 5 months before he's Free Agent eligible Strasburg signing an extension is because he didn't pitch in the playoffs?
                          If so, then Harvey can be judged for playing in the 2015 playoffs by May of 2018, 5 months before he's Free Agent eligible.

                          Silly World Series experience.
                          Last edited by LI METS FAN; 07-08-2016, 11:37 AM.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Shea Knight View Post
                            Hey, I love Harvey, but that doesn't mean I view the world through rose-tinted glasses...or a Batman mask, if you will. THIS YEAR Harvey has been on par with Verrett, excepting a couple really good starts, there's no getting away from that. I still hope he comes back and is Matt Harvey again (though the prospects on that don't look good) and he's still my sentimental favorite of that staff, but facts are facts--he IS gone for 2016, and Wheeler probably WOULD be an upgrade at this point.

                            Well, Noah/deGrom/Matz/Colon/Verrett wasn't looking like it'd have been enough to win the division during the Mets' offensive blackout. I stand by my not wanting to trade Harvey post-2015, not knowing he was about to be 2016 Harvey, with every reason to expect he'd be the 2015 model or thereabouts again, in which case, we WOULD be leading the division right now, the lack of vintage Harvey is the difference right now between the division lead and being 3 games back with the Wild Card in tow. Not expecting Harvey to get TOS, I stand by rolling with him and re-signing Cespedes and making 2016 a "do over" of 2015, and then trading Harvey if necessary to replace Cespdes if he left/for another bat/etc. A 2016 Harvey at 2015 levels, if we we couldn't re-sign him, would still have gotten a fair bit back, and we'd have been "all in" for 2016 after just missing last year.

                            That said, it'll be interesting what the Mets do going forward if Nimmo, Flores, and d'Arnaud keep hitting, and Conforto comes back and returns to form. The Mets' lineup isn't the weak thing it was in May to mid-June, and aside from Loney, that's mostly internal improvement (not counting Reyes, who's only been here a few games, and is likely redundant with Flores there anyway.)
                            I have always been for trading Harvey. I have always felt he has the type of primadonna attitude that usually ends bad for the player and the team. I did think he would have an excellent season this year and his trade value would be even better after this offseason. I guess I was wrong (You don't hear that on BBF that often!).

                            Harvey will enter 2017 as a question mark and hopefully he will have a great season and can be traded after 2017. There is no way the Mets should give him a Strausberg contract. Those who have the Wilpon's are cheap agenda will blame it on that. I think they would be crazy to invest in him because unfortunately you are signing the person, not just the arm and right now the arm is not so sharp either..

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by rjsallstars View Post
                              Harvey will enter 2017 as a question mark and hopefully he will have a great season and can be traded after 2017. There is no way the Mets should give him a Strausberg contract. Those who have the Wilpon's are cheap agenda will blame it on that. I think they would be crazy to invest in him because unfortunately you are signing the person, not just the arm and right now the arm is not so sharp either..
                              Syndergaard is the one who should be getting that offer in the off season. If the team is smart, they will also offer deGrom something. Matz if he pans out would be for the 2018 season. With 2 surgeries and being a head case on top of it all, Harvey should be traded or allowed to walk.

                              Comment


                              • There is an angle that is not being discussed or even mentioned.

                                Yes of course the money is the biggest issue. I don't doubt that and the player should protect his future as best he can. With that said - the player can not always protect it - sometimes he has to lay it on the line. These guys got to where they are by two avenues 1) they were ultra physically gifted 2) they are competitive to the highest degree.

                                All the focus the last few posts seems to talk about the $$$$$$, but what got the high paid guys paid is their competitive nature. If you take that away you take away what drives them. Sometimes you get hurt being competitive. It happens. Its part of the game. There is no way around it, and if you think its avoidable by hiding behind your agent, doctors, pitching coach then your wrong. There is no safe plan.

                                What happened to Harvey is a horrible without a doubt, but to say it was a mistake that he pitched in the World Series was a mistake...........well is a mistake. We have no clue why he has this or even how long he has this. Strasburg has been handled like fine china and still finds his way to the DL twice a year. Yes he got paid which is great for him, but it very well could be money that the Nats regret spending. I wouldn't give a guy like Steven Matz more than a 15 minute contract because he seems to be made in the fine china factory also. He has to prove otherwise. If he has to prove it by making the minimum and risking it than that's what he is going to have to do. Nobody is paying him without proof - proof is what gets you paid...not promise.

                                You can not and should not contain competitive. You have to let it fly and hopefully you stay healthy. This doesn't mean take ridiculous risks, but competitive needs to be fed. These guys are facing the best in the world every time they go out.
                                Last edited by Paulypal; 07-08-2016, 01:20 PM.

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