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  • Paulypal
    replied
    Originally posted by Mongoose View Post
    It'll be fun when the Yankees acquire a resuscitated Harvey at the deadline - and he does pretty well for them.

    100% certainty Steinbrenner would have done it. As it stands, asking price for Harvey won't be super high, and they need more starters. It's almost the only thing left to root for, unless you're stoked about seeing Tim Tebow in a Mets uniform. A revived Harvey on the Yankees is better because Fred and Jeff will be in a rage.
    That would be pretty good.

    Although I felt it was time for Harvey to leave the Mets, but the talk is Yankees or as of today the Nats want him. Either way will sting the organization.

    I call this "whatever"

    Leave a comment:


  • Mongoose
    replied
    It'll be fun when the Yankees acquire a resuscitated Harvey at the deadline - and he does pretty well for them.

    100% certainty Steinbrenner would have done it. As it stands, asking price for Harvey won't be super high, and they need more starters. It's almost the only thing left to root for, unless you're stoked about seeing Tim Tebow in a Mets uniform. A revived Harvey on the Yankees is better because Fred and Jeff will be in a rage.

    Leave a comment:


  • Shea Knight
    replied
    https://deadspin.com/matt-harvey-is-...ain-1827285670

    Much as I loved Harvey, I agree with Pauly--it was time, for both parties.

    That said, people just keep performing better the instant they leave the sinkhole that is Citi Field, don't they?

    I again agree that The Dark Knight days are gone, but at the same time, I again say what I have over and over with this staff--

    In the hands of ANOTHER organization, I think the idea of a Super Staff COULD have worked out a lot, lot better. Even if Harvey's "just" effective, 1. That's a million times more than could be said of him in May, when he was so awful and the buzz so bad it looked like his career might be nearing a premature end, and 2. "Just" effective DOES win ballgames. We said it over and over:

    deGrom, Noah, and then Harvey and Matz "just" being effective. We ALL would've been happy with that.

    Would that be enough for them to compete?
    AHAHAHAHA..yeah, this offense has long since passed the point where even I'd defend it, when deGrom's pitching Dead Ball-levels of awesome and your offense is deader STILL?
    But could they have at least been better?
    Yes.
    And--to Pauly's long counterpoint to my "Let's Keep Them and See" view--if they WERE "just" effective...would they have been WAY better pieces to deal, getting WAY more back?
    YES.

    But that's the Catch-22 with the Mets--you need to deal someone to improve, but the second you do, half the time THEY improve...because even in a case where Harvey's, where there WERE objective problems you could pin on him (physical and, by the end of his tenure, behavior-wise) they're better off without the Mets and their problems.

    Because this franchise IS a problem. I still say there are worse--I ALSO still say that, once you're in the Bottom Third, where the Mets undoubtedly have been the past two years (and, aside from 2015-16, they've been there most of this past decade) it starts to become academic who's "worse."

    Is one dump truck's worth of manure on your lawn "better" than two dump truck's worth?
    Yes, technically.
    Do you really CARE at that point?
    Prooooobably not, and you're gonna want to escape the fumes as soon as possible.

    Leave a comment:


  • Paulypal
    replied
    Originally posted by Mongoose View Post

    Looks like Harvey's back up to 97 or 98 mph his last 2 starts. He's been effective. Too bad Fred and Jeff display personal animosity towards certain players. It's counterproductive. Not saying Harvey's exemplary, but he's a competitor. You're supposed to try to get the most out of your employees.

    He still has a way to go, but his improvement has been measureable in several ways. I hope he regains his abilities.
    Regardless of Fred / Jeff -- it was time for Harvey to go. I am not going to 20/20 this and say they should have kept him -- they shouldn't have.

    He will not regain is 2013/2015 form. He may be effective but not dominant.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mongoose
    replied
    Originally posted by Mongoose View Post

    I'd felt he still had something left to work with. The Reds probably corrected something easily correctable, since he seems to have bumped up his velocity a bit since being traded.

    It seemed like the team (Fred and Jeff) had a personal animosity towards him, as they seem to with every player that likes to party. Not saying Harvey's blameless, but everything could have been handled much better, and not just personally. Much of his crummy performance last season was due to pitching with a broken shoulder and withered muscle structure at the rear of his shoulder. Such things don't help rehabs go smoothly.

    I think there's still something there, so he'll be interesting to watch moving forward. Either way, he was gone at the end of the season.
    Looks like Harvey's back up to 97 or 98 mph his last 2 starts. He's been effective. Too bad Fred and Jeff display personal animosity towards certain players. It's counterproductive. Not saying Harvey's exemplary, but he's a competitor. You're supposed to try to get the most out of your employees.

    He still has a way to go, but his improvement has been measureable in several ways. I hope he regains his abilities.

    Leave a comment:


  • ol' aches and pains
    replied
    According to a Met fan on another forum:

    "Jay Bruce even went public to advocate for youngsters to get playing time.

    The final middle finger from Collins was when we played a game out West where all of Brandon Nimmo’s family and friends came.

    The season was done but Collins refused to put him in the line up.

    It was vindictive.
    One unnamed player said “unless your name is Cespedes or Harvey, you abide by the rules.”

    Bruce would not have signed if Collins had not been fired"

    Leave a comment:


  • Paulypal
    replied
    Originally posted by ol' aches and pains View Post
    That is a disturbing trend, isn't it?
    The Met environment is toxic - that is why this is a trend.

    Some were surprised Bruce came back (as was I), but he had no offers that I can recall and it was getting late so he took the money. If Cleveland makes that same offer or any other team that is run halfway decent I have to believe Bruce is playing elsewhere.

    Not that Jay Bruce is hardly a good player, but that is another story.

    Leave a comment:


  • ol' aches and pains
    replied
    Originally posted by Shea Knight View Post

    Neither does "The Dark Knight of Page Six"--I beat the drum more than anyone on here for Harvey, I think it's fair to say...and even I thought that, for his sake and that of the Mets, it was time to move on. Hopefully this can be the start of a new, good chapter for him, on the field and personally. (That said, if he DOES rebound, it'll be another case of the Mets letting someone go only to see that player play better in greener pastures elsewhere.)
    That is a disturbing trend, isn't it?

    Leave a comment:


  • Shea Knight
    replied
    Originally posted by ol' aches and pains View Post
    True, but "The Dark Knight Of Cincinnati" doesn't quite have the same cachet, does it?
    Neither does "The Dark Knight of Page Six"--I beat the drum more than anyone on here for Harvey, I think it's fair to say...and even I thought that, for his sake and that of the Mets, it was time to move on. Hopefully this can be the start of a new, good chapter for him, on the field and personally. (That said, if he DOES rebound, it'll be another case of the Mets letting someone go only to see that player play better in greener pastures elsewhere.)

    Leave a comment:


  • LI METS FAN
    replied
    Originally posted by jjpm74 View Post
    Harvey had TOS surgery. Let's not forget that. There has been a total of one pitcher to come back from that and have any kind of career. The latest TOS surgery casualty is Phil Hughes who was DFAed from the Twins with an era where Harvey is right now.

    I'll be surprised if he gets anything more than a 1 year deal for a few million next season.
    If, and it’s a big if, he does well with the Reds they might give him a qualifying offer. But I agree, a multi year offer isn’t likely. (Unless he’s not eligible for QO because he was traded)?

    Leave a comment:


  • jjpm74
    replied
    Harvey had TOS surgery. Let's not forget that. There has been a total of one pitcher to come back from that and have any kind of career. The latest TOS surgery casualty is Phil Hughes who was DFAed from the Twins with an era where Harvey is right now.

    I'll be surprised if he gets anything more than a 1 year deal for a few million next season.

    Leave a comment:


  • ol' aches and pains
    replied
    Originally posted by Paulypal View Post
    Say what you want and I don't fully disagree, but it was time for the change with Harvey.
    True, but "The Dark Knight Of Cincinnati" doesn't quite have the same cachet, does it?

    Leave a comment:


  • Paulypal
    replied
    Originally posted by Mongoose View Post

    I'd felt he still had something left to work with. The Reds probably corrected something easily correctable, since he seems to have bumped up his velocity a bit since being traded.

    It seemed like the team (Fred and Jeff) had a personal animosity towards him, as they seem to with every player that likes to party. Not saying Harvey's blameless, but everything could have been handled much better, and not just personally. Much of his crummy performance last season was due to pitching with a broken shoulder and withered muscle structure at the rear of his shoulder. Such things don't help rehabs go smoothly.

    I think there's still something there, so he'll be interesting to watch moving forward. Either way, he was gone at the end of the season.
    Say what you want and I don't fully disagree, but it was time for the change with Harvey.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mongoose
    replied
    Originally posted by LI METS FAN View Post
    Harvey box score from yesterday- 6 IP, 1 ER, 5K's, 93 pitches. He'll do well in free agency next year if he can keep this up. Maybe build on this and start pitching into the 7th.
    I'd felt he still had something left to work with. The Reds probably corrected something easily correctable, since he seems to have bumped up his velocity a bit since being traded.

    It seemed like the team (Fred and Jeff) had a personal animosity towards him, as they seem to with every player that likes to party. Not saying Harvey's blameless, but everything could have been handled much better, and not just personally. Much of his crummy performance last season was due to pitching with a broken shoulder and withered muscle structure at the rear of his shoulder. Such things don't help rehabs go smoothly.

    I think there's still something there, so he'll be interesting to watch moving forward. Either way, he was gone at the end of the season.

    Leave a comment:


  • LI METS FAN
    replied
    Harvey box score from yesterday- 6 IP, 1 ER, 5K's, 93 pitches. He'll do well in free agency next year if he can keep this up. Maybe build on this and start pitching into the 7th.

    Leave a comment:

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